Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #6macros, 2015-05-04

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16:36 vendethiel masak: will read thanks :D
16:36 vendethiel I did see Hy go through, but not the macros
16:55 vendethiel I wonder if you there's an AST-to-CST-to-Source tool in python
16:59 vendethiel (aka, write hy without your colleagues knowing :P)
17:00 vendethiel I wonder if top-level "def"s are special
17:00 vendethiel (which means dynamic scope in CL)
17:00 vendethiel (that's what CL uses the * * circumfix for, at least)
17:26 vendethiel I'm actually looking at Pony now.
17:26 vendethiel http://tutorial.ponylang.org/
18:57 masak oh, hadn't heard about Pony.
18:58 vendethiel it's coming out of nowhere :P
19:08 masak yeah, Pony seems cute.
19:08 masak very strong guarantees, it seems. I kina like that.
19:08 vendethiel *g*
19:08 masak no macros? :)
19:08 vendethiel apparently not :P
19:11 masak oh wow, `a = b = a`
19:11 masak returning the old value seemed stupid until I saw that :)
19:12 vendethiel yeaaaah. I saw it, but I'm not convinced still :)
19:13 vendethiel maybe that's just me not liking change
19:13 * masak .oO( then you ought to love the *old* value ) :P
19:14 vendethiel haha.
19:14 * vendethiel .oO( Haskell! I should be writing Haskell instead! )
19:18 * masak .oO( so simple, only a monad can do it )
19:18 vendethiel .oO( ... or was it a burrito? )
19:18 masak no, I've finally made peace with monads.
19:18 masak it all became trivial when I learned that a monad is induced by an adjunction.
19:19 masak I was like "oooooh. why didn'y you *say* so?" :P
19:19 vendethiel there's more than one way to explain it... :-)
19:19 vendethiel I never got why anyone tried to explain me monads with "wrapper"
19:19 vendethiel that's a shit explanation.
19:20 masak that seems to be an explanation that captures part of the essence. maybe a third or so.
19:20 vendethiel I really don't think it does
19:20 vendethiel the "list monad" doesn't wrap around a list.
19:20 vendethiel it just says list respects 3 laws.
19:20 masak aye.
19:21 masak much as nothing except the linear algebra *really* explains quantum mechanics, and all the people who don't get to those laws have to contend with "it's just... unintuitive magic. yup, that's what seems to drive the universe. enjoy."
19:23 vendethiel I don't know anything about quantum mechanics :)
19:25 masak tl;dr: instead of probabilities 0..1, the universe seems to run on complex numbers. it's all nifty and hidden so you can't observe the complex numbers directly. you only ever observe real-valued norms of them, which have to sum to 1.0 just like ordinary probabilities.
19:25 vendethiel oh, I know that much
19:26 vendethiel I have a *clue*, but nothing more than that
19:26 masak then we're basically on the same level :)
19:26 vendethiel haha
19:26 masak I never took a formal course or anything
19:26 vendethiel I never took any course, sooo..:)
19:26 masak just enjoy reading Scott Aaronson, who seems very clued in
19:29 vendethiel I'm afraid my personal reading list is too full to add stuff on it
19:29 vendethiel to* it. ugh, my english.
19:29 masak probably best.
19:29 masak there's a lot of interesting stuff to read :)
19:30 vendethiel I'm absolutely sure it's a good read, but.. :-)
19:30 masak "it" :)
19:30 masak we're talking years of fascinating blogging
19:30 vendethiel must. resist.!
19:31 masak along with... external assets.
19:31 masak like a whole online course "Quantum Computing since Democritus"
19:31 masak or a whitepaper about how if free will exists, it must have been mediated by special caual arrows since the Big Bang
19:32 vendethiel ugh.
19:32 vendethiel :-)
19:33 vendethiel to change topic on something I feel more confident about!
19:34 vendethiel I realize I now look at macros like something a language can't really avoid having
19:34 vendethiel (or at least, have tons of metaprogramming capabilities)
19:37 masak *nod*
19:45 vendethiel *but*
19:45 vendethiel I also realize how hard that makes for tools to check for correctness
19:55 masak it's a balance act, fershure.
19:58 vendethiel mmmh.

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