Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #6macros, 2015-05-26

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Time Nick Message
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01:48 Topic for #6macros is now 6macros: discussing the finer points of Perl 6 macros, Qtrees, and how to stay sane | irclog: irclog.perlgeek.de/6macros/today
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11:13 Ven cobol is a funny language.
11:22 masak Ven: I'll be thrilled to see you tie that back into the channel topic :)
11:22 Ven it's all a DSL
11:22 Ven it first reminded me of the "loop" common lisp macro.
11:23 Ven ...which is basically its own EDSL
11:23 Ven (loop for i from y if x collect bar)
11:23 Ven in cobol, it looks like
11:24 Ven perform varying i from 1 by 1 until i > max. STUFF. end-perform
11:25 Ven I mean, it probably makes sense, "business" or something
11:25 Ven but it *doesn't look like a programming language*
11:25 Ven or the idea I have of a programming langauge
11:26 Ven (smalltalkers would probably be mad at me for saying that :) - or anyone using a language that doesn't use "files" to store code)
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12:29 masak I don't know a lot about COBOL.
12:30 masak but it looks to me like a pre-Java attempt to dumb programming down until even muggles can do it.
12:30 masak which of course doesn't work.
12:30 masak the only programming language muggles will ever use is Excel.
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17:51 vendethiel masak: hey, but someone embedded clojure in excel :)
17:51 vendethiel (i only now saw your answer)
17:51 vendethiel C is from 1972, and cobol from 1959, that's an important point
17:55 masak how so?
17:56 vendethiel things were even SLOWER back then
17:57 vendethiel the funny thing is, it looks far safer than C.
17:58 masak how does that excuse the fact that COBOL was an attempt to dumb programming down?
17:58 masak I don't understand :)
17:59 vendethiel hm, not that really
17:59 vendethiel it's just that
18:00 vendethiel there are no nullpointers
18:00 vendethiel uninitialized fields
18:02 vendethiel and yeah, that's a lot java-like
18:02 * masak is not too sold on null pointers
18:03 vendethiel well, no pointers at all
18:03 vendethiel kill all the pointers
18:03 masak :)
18:03 vendethiel I'm mostly looking at it because
18:03 vendethiel - data divisions are actually cool
18:04 vendethiel - I want to know how it looked then. I'll learn more pascal and more ada later
18:04 vendethiel (I read a tutorial about each, but not much more yet...)
18:04 masak vendethiel++ # interested in history
18:04 masak what's a "data division"?
18:04 vendethiel but there are things that... really show their age: no variable-length strings
18:04 masak ugh.
18:04 vendethiel even in the "newest" standards
18:05 vendethiel you can have variable-length arrays, but you have to constrain them (say, 5..25)
18:07 vendethiel really, tho, "data divisions" are a good idea. it's better than many languages had, even later
18:07 vendethiel it basically looks like this:
18:07 vendethiel 01 record-name.
18:07 vendethiel 02 inner-field TYPE.
18:07 vendethiel 02 inner-record.
18:07 vendethiel 03 inner-field TYPE.
18:07 vendethiel you can use only ONE part, or consider them like... a struct with named unions
18:20 masak ok, so a product of sums.
18:21 masak https://github.com/lihaoyi/macropy
18:21 masak (anything we can learn from this one?)
18:21 masak https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9603174
18:22 vendethiel I saw macropy -- mostly while looking at scalaJS, as lihaoyi is a pretty active contributor
18:22 vendethiel wow, it gets reposted on HN every few months it seems :)
18:22 masak :P
18:55 vendethiel mmh
18:58 vendethiel the doc is pretty poor
19:01 vendethiel :|
19:01 vendethiel I don't get how it even works
19:01 vendethiel I know I already tried to look
19:06 vendethiel ah
19:06 vendethiel there's a macro for string interp
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