Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #bioclipse, 2008-02-15

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Time Nick Message
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15:55 egonw jonalv: nah... was joking
15:55 jonalv okey
15:56 * jonalv couldn't tell
15:56 egonw not about those cyclic deps though
15:56 egonw ok, what's the core, core plugin?
15:56 egonw on which the rest should depend?
15:56 egonw target.platform?
15:56 egonw that one is OK...
15:56 jonalv nothing depends on target.platform directly
15:56 egonw ok, good
15:57 jonalv or rather nothing declares dependency
15:57 egonw what the next one that does not depend on anything?
15:57 jonalv but much needs stuff from it
15:57 egonw ok, that's scary...
15:57 jonalv logging shouldn't depend on anything
15:57 egonw ok, thought so...
15:57 jonalv it's not a plugin
15:57 egonw it now depends on .core
15:57 egonw and I already tried to remove that dep
15:57 egonw but failed so far...
15:57 egonw eclipse did not allow me yet
15:58 steinbeck left #bioclipse
15:58 jonalv it's strange
15:58 egonw ok, eclipse says the deps are dynamically resolved...
15:58 jonalv my manifest for logging looks like this: http://pastebin.com/d27992120
15:59 jonalv what would that mean?
15:59 egonw that looks the same as I have
16:00 egonw no idea
16:00 jonalv okey, notice that it only depends on #
16:00 jonalv org.eclipse.ui,
16:00 jonalv #
16:00 jonalv org.eclipse.core.runtime
16:00 jonalv no dependency on core there right+
16:00 egonw ok, where did my PDE Clean Classpath go ?!?!?
16:02 jonalv I don't know that
16:03 jonalv didn't it do anything?
16:04 jonalv or can't you find the action in the context menu?
16:04 jonalv You need to select one project to get the action you know....
16:04 CIA-31 bioclipse: carl_masak * r4888 /trunk/playground/plugins/net.biocl​ipse.base2/src/net/bioclipse/base2/ (db/Base2Database.java model/Database.java):
16:04 CIA-31 bioclipse: [Base2Database.java]
16:04 CIA-31 bioclipse: [Database.java]
16:04 CIA-31 bioclipse: * better error reporting when server is unavailable
16:04 masak CIA-31: you're alive!
16:04 egonw oh... PDE did not show up because not everything is a plugin!
16:05 masak I knew it! :)
16:05 jonalv ah
16:07 egonw I have not f*g idea where it finds the need to add nb.core as dep for .logging :(
16:08 egonw oh...
16:08 egonw might have a clue...
16:08 jonalv okey?
16:08 egonw no, but here's the deal...
16:09 egonw n.b.core contains a log4j library
16:09 jonalv no don't say that
16:09 egonw and my Eclipse3.3 thinks: he, that's nice... that something I need...
16:09 * jonalv is beginning to hate log4j
16:09 egonw well...
16:09 jonalv the target platform contains one too
16:09 egonw .core should not contain log4j, or ... ?
16:09 jonalv no
16:10 jonalv we should use the one int the target platform
16:10 jonalv and that should be enough
16:10 egonw anyway...
16:10 egonw .platform contains a lot for which org.eclipse plugins are available, I would say...
16:10 egonw ok, will try to remove the jar from .core
16:10 masak jonalv: how come egonw's .core contains a log4j, but yours doesn't?
16:11 * jonalv is looking in to this
16:11 egonw http://bioclipse.svn.sourceforge.net/​viewvc/bioclipse/branches/bioclipse2/​core/plugins/net.bioclipse.core/libs/
16:11 egonw it's there in SVN...
16:11 jonalv yes it's there... :(
16:11 egonw ola's to blame :)
16:11 egonw olas: hi!
16:11 jonalv he seems to put those everywhere
16:11 masak haha
16:11 jonalv the BIGGEST problem is that it's an old version as well
16:12 egonw yeah... 1.2.8 instead of .13
16:12 jonalv and if Spring finds it and uses it instead of the new on in the target plattform nothing worrks :(
16:12 * egonw thinks it should be Bioclipse devel policy to make a fresh checkout every monday...
16:12 egonw oh wait...
16:13 egonw that's where did build service is for...
16:13 egonw did=this
16:13 jonalv build service?
16:13 egonw Bioclipse Nightly
16:13 jonalv yes we need that...
16:14 jonalv all freaking bc2 plugins are exporting log4j stuff
16:15 jonalv well at least both core and logging anyway
16:15 jonalv :)
16:15 egonw :)
16:15 egonw ok, will try to remove it from core...
16:16 jonalv oh I was only on that... :)
16:16 jonalv but do it you if you want to :)
16:16 jonalv I'll brb
16:16 egonw ok, that solves quite a lot of the cyclic deps
16:18 egonw ok, solved
16:19 jonalv you removed the jat file?
16:19 egonw yeah
16:19 egonw works for me (tm)
16:19 jonalv a bunch of plugins ws depending on it right+
16:20 jonalv They should probably use import package instead declaring a dependency
16:20 egonw those should add a dep on org.apache.log4j
16:21 jonalv hm there is such a plugin from Eclipse?
16:21 egonw will commit...
16:21 egonw hand on...
16:21 egonw sure
16:21 jonalv then maybe we should purge the Bioclispe 2 repo from all log4j jars?
16:22 egonw well... maybe via one of the Eclipse platform plugins...
16:22 egonw yes
16:22 egonw did that in the past at some point for BC1 too
16:22 jonalv currently there is one in the target plattform
16:22 jonalv which I have been using :)
16:22 egonw yeah, I see several jars in .platform that are redundant, I think
16:22 jonalv I do hope Spring will pick the right one up though...
16:23 egonw :)
16:23 CIA-31 bioclipse: egonw * r4889 /branches/bioclipse2/core/plugins/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Removed log4j from net.bioclipse.core to solve cyclic dependencies: it now compiles again
16:23 egonw yeah... it's a shame...
16:23 egonw eclipse worked out this idea of plugin based classpaths...
16:23 egonw and Spring just drops the whole concept
16:23 jonalv sry?
16:24 egonw and is back to the old crappy 'he, we have four Xerces versions' days
16:24 jonalv are you blaming Spring now?
16:24 egonw if I understand your worries about having it pick up the right log4j version, ues
16:24 egonw ues=yes
16:24 jonalv It should work
16:25 jonalv but you wouldn't guess how much problem I have beeen having with logging
16:25 jonalv are you looking at all Bioclipse 2 plugins?
16:26 jonalv I have a bunch not compiling now... :)
16:27 jonalv I tried your tip and got: bundle org.apache.log4j can not be resolved.
16:34 jonalv egonw?
16:36 olas left #bioclipse
16:39 jonalv egonw, where did you go? You just broke my net.bioclipse.ui plugin. Just so you know...
16:48 egonw back
16:48 egonw crap
16:48 egonw ok... let's figure out where that plugin is coming from...
16:49 jonalv yes we could replace the one in the target platform with it
16:49 jonalv that would probably work
16:49 jonalv if you have it...
16:52 egonw org.apache.log4j: Provider: Eclipse.org
16:52 egonw so, must be part of Casini...
16:53 egonw Europa...
16:53 egonw what's the 3.3 nick name again?
16:53 jonalv not sure
16:53 jonalv But I don't seem to have it...
16:53 jonalv so I am probably not alone...
16:53 egonw 3.3 == europa
16:53 egonw it seems
16:58 egonw arghh...
16:59 jonalv ?
16:59 egonw no way to track which featre pulled in the plugin
17:00 jonalv well, we have a plugin that does this already in target.platform. Problem is that is not called the same hence it's not working for the moment...
17:00 jonalv it's in required-libs
17:01 jonalv the file is log4j.osgi-1.2.13-SNAPCHOT.jar
17:01 jonalv the bundle name is: log4j.osgi
17:02 jonalv it's arguably not "the Eclipse way" though :)
17:02 egonw no, it is not
17:06 egonw anyway...
17:06 egonw is .platform going to help?
17:06 egonw it could export the library...
17:06 egonw but then the plugins would have to depend on it...
17:06 jonalv it is not a plugin
17:06 egonw or we could try to get hold of the org.apache.log4j plugin
17:07 egonw ok, then we should try to get hold of the org.apache.log4j plugin
17:07 jonalv that would be one way
17:07 egonw and put that in our SVN
17:07 jonalv the platform is a collection of base plugins
17:07 jonalv or something like that
17:07 egonw can't figure out which plugin to install from the Eclipse update site...
17:07 jonalv but you already have it right?
17:07 egonw yes
17:07 egonw and eclipse.org is the provider
17:07 jonalv so you could technically copy that plugin into the target platform
17:07 egonw so must come from the eclipse update site, I think
17:08 jonalv With that plugin in the target.platform things should work
17:09 egonw might you check the Eclipse Europa update site?
17:09 egonw and chek under "Enabling Features" ?
17:09 jonalv but a solution where we get automagic updates would be even better
17:10 jonalv sure
17:10 jonalv from within eclipse+
17:10 egonw right
17:11 egonw might be pulled when installing the WTP
17:12 jonalv WTP?
17:12 egonw web tools package
17:12 jonalv no I have that
17:12 jonalv I think
17:12 jonalv that's whrer the xml editor is right+
17:13 jonalv but I am only browsing features now.-.
17:13 egonw yeah...
17:16 egonw http://archive.eclipse.org/arch/
17:17 jonalv what are you suggestning?
17:18 egonw nothing yet
17:18 * jonalv is considering calling it aday
17:18 egonw what I hope to suggest, is to put the org.apache.log4j plugin into bioclipse svn
17:19 jonalv Only I am going on a weeks vacation.. :)
17:19 jonalv using svn externals or something like that+
17:19 egonw *if* SVN...
17:19 egonw but source seems in CVS :(
17:19 jonalv oh...
17:20 jonalv can't we just go with the second best solution?
17:20 egonw nope
17:20 egonw we did that for BC1
17:20 jonalv oh okey
17:21 egonw put differently...
17:21 egonw I'm not giving up yet
17:21 jonalv fair enough. I trust taht you won't leave this unsolved if I call it a day now?
17:22 egonw huh?
17:23 rojas1 left #bioclipse
17:23 egonw http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.ecl​ipse.orbit/org.apache.log4j/?root=Tools_Project
17:24 egonw is that what were looking for?
17:24 egonw no idea what org.eclipse.orbit is though...
17:24 * egonw is looking for another candidate...
17:24 egonw but...
17:24 egonw it is log4j 1.2.13
17:25 jonalv good
17:25 egonw no, seems only instance...
17:26 egonw http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&​q=viewcvs+repository+org.apache.log4j+s​ite%3Adev.eclipse.org&btnG=Search
17:26 * jonalv on phone
17:27 egonw http://www.eclipse.org/orbit/overview.php
17:27 egonw that seems to be the thing we're looking for indeed
17:28 jonalv oki
17:28 egonw http://download.eclipse.org/tools/o​rbit/downloads/drops/R200709171314/
17:28 egonw yes, that's the deal...
17:29 jonalv okey, off the phone
17:29 egonw lots of third party libs as eclipse plugins
17:29 egonw bingo
17:30 jonalv but that's the jar file. Can we link it in from svn somehow or do we still need to do manual upgrades+
17:32 egonw see this link:
17:32 egonw http://dev.eclipse.org/viewcvs/index.cgi/org.ecl​ipse.orbit/org.apache.log4j/?root=Tools_Project
17:32 egonw there's the source...
17:34 jonalv so that's svn?
17:35 egonw no, CVS I think
17:35 jonalv okey
17:35 egonw but will make a copy
17:35 egonw or, alternatively...
17:35 jonalv what's the point in that?
17:36 egonw we can explain in the wiki to install those jars in ones eclipse install
17:36 egonw maybe that's better
17:36 jonalv why can't we just put those jar in the target platform and everyone will get those jars in their platform when they install the target platform
17:36 jonalv that's what the target platform thing is for you know...
17:37 egonw because we want people to be able to install Bioclipse in there Eclipse install too?
17:37 egonw I don't understand the concept of the .plarform thing... which is not a plugin
17:38 egonw because plugins can't depend on the .platform?
17:38 jonalv the platform contains plugins
17:38 jonalv it's an addition to the envionment containing the base plugins like eclipse.core and such
17:39 egonw right, but it is the plugins that require log4j
17:39 jonalv yes so we put the plugin in the target platform
17:39 egonw don't get that...
17:40 jonalv and then people can use the plugin
17:40 egonw plugins can't depend on it...
17:40 egonw so how would they see the log4j in the classpath
17:40 egonw ?
17:40 egonw please define "target platform" ...
17:40 egonw that's not target.platform...
17:40 egonw that jar you want to put in there...
17:40 jonalv Because you do step 5 o this åage: <http://wiki.bioclipse.net/index.php?title=Instruc​tion_for_how_to_check_out_and_compile_Bioclipse_2>
17:40 egonw that's the log4j.1.2.13.jar ?
17:41 jonalv yes
17:41 egonw ohh.....
17:41 egonw arghhh....
17:41 jonalv put the log4j bundle in the target platform
17:42 jonalv install the target platform
17:42 egonw so, those cyclic deps are supposed to happen?!?!?
17:42 egonw and to be solved after stap 5) ?
17:42 jonalv I don't know about any cyclic deps
17:42 jonalv did you just read the (At this point, you will have compilation errors in some of your projects, even after running Project → Clean.) part?
17:43 egonw no
17:43 egonw :)
17:44 egonw never reached that point
17:44 jonalv Ah yes, their might be cyclic deps
17:44 jonalv I just realised why
17:44 jonalv the logging plugin imports the log4j packages from any plugin exporting them
17:44 egonw right
17:45 masak tip: maybe clarify the wiki page on this point? seems that if egonw is unable to set up bioclipse 2, the instructions could need some clarifications...
17:45 jonalv since core was exporting them (as well as the real log4j bundle) it might have choosen the wrong bundel for you
17:45 jonalv core should not export log4j packages
17:45 egonw maybe put in a warnig to start 3) ?
17:45 masak yes.
17:46 jonalv please feel free to add the warning you see fit. Annzi managed to get it to work without trouble and complimented me on the good instructions so I thought it was good
17:46 masak :)
17:46 jonalv but maybe if you know a bit more about how things work they are not...
17:47 masak the curse of knowledge...
17:47 egonw jonalv: difference is that Annzi might not know what to expect
17:47 jonalv exactly
17:47 egonw I expected no cyclic depds...
17:47 egonw that's evil
17:47 masak ack
17:47 jonalv yes and they should of course not be there
17:48 jonalv there should only be plugins that can't be found
17:48 egonw ok, got to wrap up too...
17:48 egonw I'll revert the patch I made...
17:48 egonw so that it compiles for you again...
17:48 jonalv Yes but we will need to do something along those lines later on.
17:48 egonw but I think we really should use org.apache.log4j from org.eclipse.orbit ...
17:48 egonw instead of putting it in .platform
17:49 jonalv I am starting to understand why log4j was behaving so differently at different times though
17:49 egonw +think we
17:49 jonalv We had at least 3 version of it :)
17:49 egonw :)
17:49 egonw ok, have a nice weekend
17:49 egonw I'll bound to be online though
17:49 egonw bye for now
17:49 jonalv bye
17:49 masak bye
17:50 egonw is either one of you logged in on the wiki?
17:50 jonalv btw maybe make blueprint for this? :)
17:50 egonw I'm not...
17:50 egonw yeah... let's do that
17:50 egonw so, if either of you can add a note at the start of point 3)
17:50 egonw about compile fails...
17:50 egonw I would be grateful
17:50 jonalv I am going a way for a week...
17:50 jonalv what should I write you think?
17:51 egonw about to expect compile errors...
17:51 egonw which will vanish after...
17:51 egonw following step 4 and further
17:51 jonalv that comment is already theere but I will move it up :)
17:52 masak logged in? as in right now?
17:52 masak no.
17:53 egonw jonalv: yeah, that's my only point
17:53 egonw moving it up would have made me aware of the cyclic deps to expect
17:53 egonw so that I would have continued to the next step...
17:53 jonalv egonw you know that you should read the instructions before starting something right? ;)
17:53 egonw habit is to do thing step by step, and make sure they work step by step...
17:54 jonalv step 4 was check out plugins
17:54 jonalv you didn't have problems before you checked out the plugins right+
17:54 CIA-31 bioclipse: egonw * r4890 /branches/bioclipse2/core/plugins/ (4 files in 4 dirs): Reverted patch 4889: it's not the definate solution
17:54 jonalv oh that's strange btw
17:54 jonalv step 3 is nothing actually
17:54 jonalv :)
17:54 egonw oh, then it was step 4)
17:55 egonw with that dir tree
17:55 jonalv step 3 was only the tree
17:55 jonalv step 4 was check out the ones marked as required and the text about compilation errors
17:55 jonalv but I would have done it like you so neverm ind :)
17:56 egonw right, so I did strand at step 3
17:56 jonalv yes but step 3 didn't tell you to do anything but go on to step 4
17:56 egonw because it's quite obvious if you so required plugins in a tree, to actually import those into Eclipse
17:56 jonalv ah yes
17:56 egonw that's the difference between me as experience BC developer
17:56 egonw and a novice
17:57 jonalv yup
17:57 jonalv I am rewriting it now
17:57 egonw thanx
17:57 egonw really bye now!
19:00 Annzi left #bioclipse

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