Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #bioclipse, 2008-10-05

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Time Nick Message
00:09 CIA-30 bioclipse: edrin_t * r7230 /bioclipse2/trunk/plugins/net.biocl​ipse.xws4j/src/net/bioclipse/xws4j/ (4 files in 2 dirs): improved preference pages
08:43 edrin joined #bioclipse
10:50 CIA-30 bioclipse: carl_masak * r7231 /bot/trunk/zarah.pl: [zarah] added many "smart girl" responses from the book (ISBN 0-449-13070-3)
12:41 zarah joined #bioclipse
13:08 jonalv joined #bioclipse
13:14 CIA-30 joined #bioclipse
13:39 edrin joined #bioclipse
14:08 edrin hi jonalv
14:08 jonalv hi edrin
14:08 edrin wanna play with the console xws various features?
14:09 jonalv uhm I don't even have Bioclipse set up on this computer :)
14:09 edrin oh, ok
14:10 edrin I think I fixed all the problems
14:10 jonalv It's sunday I am just hanging out and dropped in here just to hang out =)
14:10 jonalv Yea I saw commit logs
14:10 edrin ok
14:11 jonalv you and masak has been commiting this weekend :)
14:11 edrin yes
14:11 edrin tomorrow I have to work in the lab again
14:11 jonalv I will look at it when I am at the other computer in the comming week and report any troubles to you. I think I sort of understand a bit of how it works now
14:12 edrin ok
14:12 jonalv although I must say that the client api seemed wast...
14:12 edrin i modified the xws manager - however
14:12 jonalv Not sure I understood it :)
14:13 edrin it's like this.
14:13 jonalv okey so all important things are published manager methods with help now?
14:13 edrin yes
14:13 jonalv cool
14:13 edrin and there should be no thread access problem anymore
14:13 jonalv then I will just read the help text for the manager and try that out =)
14:13 jonalv good
14:13 edrin and beside this, you are now able to use your googlemail account
14:14 jonalv hehe
14:14 edrin one thing about XWS technology in general
14:14 jonalv I was thinking perhaps you should add functionality for creatinga jabber account?
14:15 edrin jonalv: I could do so... but i would prefere not to do this. the IT admin should pass this account to the user, similar to email
14:15 jonalv uhm who is the IT admin?
14:16 edrin for your local server, for example ola ;)
14:16 edrin one thing about xws in general
14:16 edrin that stuff is more clear for you
14:16 jonalv what stuff is more clear for me?
14:17 edrin 1. a Jabber ID (JID) is any XMPP item: for example "user@server.com" or "jabber.org" or "xws.jabber.org"
14:17 jonalv uhm okey
14:18 edrin 2. "somecomponent.jabber.org" or "xws.jabber.org" are components of "jabber.org" and "jabber.org" is an XMPP server
14:18 jonalv I just felt that it would be easier to test run it if I didn't need to download another program in order to create a jabber id
14:18 edrin 3. xws4j is not only a client library but also a component library
14:19 jonalv not dure I understand this...
14:19 edrin for example: user <-> server <-> xws-component
14:20 edrin or even better: user@server1 <-> server1 <-> server2 <-> xws-component.server2
14:20 jonalv hm it seems complicated...
14:20 edrin yesterday you have been: jonalv@jabber.org <-> jabber.org <-> ayena.de <-> xws.ayena.de
14:21 edrin xws.ayena.de is a XMPP Web Service component. this component offers various functions...
14:21 edrin ok?
14:21 jonalv maybe
14:21 edrin ok
14:21 edrin now if you are in js console....
14:22 jonalv ayena.se and xws.ayena.de are those on your computer btw?
14:23 edrin ayena.de is the server from another guy. the component is a "connecting" component and connected to the server via tcp/ip - yesterday ola run it
14:23 edrin do you have PSI installed?
14:23 jonalv what is PSI?
14:23 edrin XMPP client
14:24 edrin http://psi-im.org
14:25 jonalv no I don't hink I have actualy
14:26 edrin wanna try? this will make things more clear
14:27 jonalv installing psi?
14:27 edrin yes
14:27 edrin it is the best jabber client anyway
14:33 jonalv I tried it with my jabber acount but I get a policy error
14:33 edrin in PSI?
14:34 edrin what is your jabber account?
14:34 jonalv There was an error communicating with the server.
14:34 jonalv Details: XMPP Stream Error: Policy violation
14:34 jonalv jonalv@jabber.org
14:35 jonalv It's sunday not sure I wanna spend time on broken stuff today...
14:35 edrin PSI is not broken
14:35 edrin it is a very old stable client
14:35 jonalv well it's not working anyway..
14:35 edrin how did you setup the account?
14:36 jonalv friday when I was test running
14:36 jonalv using psi too
14:36 edrin oh?
14:37 jonalv yea you told me, remember? :)
14:37 edrin yes
14:37 edrin well, PSI has a Service Discovery Browser...
14:38 edrin Bioclipse will get a similar thing for XWS
14:38 edrin (the technology is very similar)
14:38 edrin if you would get PSI logged in you could try it and things would become clear....
14:38 jonalv okey
14:41 jonalv I just get the same policy violation everytime I try...
14:41 jonalv seems broken to me...
14:43 edrin I am currently asking in the PSI conference room
14:45 edrin 16:44:00] <textshell> what had you been doing?
14:45 edrin [16:44:26] <edrin> a friend of mine tried to connect to his jabber.org account
14:45 edrin [16:44:37] <textshell> you should get and save a dump of the internal debug ringbuffer. (in the xml console)
14:45 edrin [16:44:54] <textshell> so you added a new account and tried to login?
14:45 edrin [16:44:55] <edrin> do you think this is a bug?
14:45 edrin [16:45:10] <textshell> and it gave that error while login
14:45 edrin jonalv: can you create a new account?
14:45 edrin hm
14:46 edrin jonalv: or do you try to "create" the jonalv account again
14:46 edrin jonalv: if you created the account already on friday you do not have to create it again!
14:47 jonalv wow psi crashed with segmentation fault when I tried to create a jabber.org account
14:47 edrin what build do you have ?
14:47 edrin on what os?
14:47 edrin [16:47] <jonalv> wow psi crashed with segmentation fault when I tried to create a jabber.org account
14:47 edrin [16:47] <edrin> what build do you have ?
14:47 edrin [16:47] <edrin> on what os?
14:47 jonalv Ubuntu
14:48 edrin what PSI release ?
14:48 jonalv v0.11
14:48 edrin hm...
14:49 edrin sounds really broken...
14:49 jonalv I can't even remove the account
14:50 jonalv I mean it dissapears alright but when I restart psi it's there again...
14:51 textshell joined #bioclipse
14:51 edrin hi textshell
14:51 textshell edrin: i'm here.
14:52 edrin textshell it is jonalv
14:52 jonalv hi textshell
14:52 textshell jonalv: hi.
14:52 jonalv textshell: you good with psi?
14:52 textshell jonalv: what psi version do you use?
14:53 jonalv it says v0.11 in about
14:53 textshell jonalv: well, i don't know every corner of psi, but i know psi fairly well.
14:53 jonalv it's the one apt-get installed for me... =)
14:54 textshell so i guess it's the psi from the ubuntu package sources? Which ubuntu?
14:54 jonalv hardy
14:55 textshell that's 08.3 isn't it?
14:55 jonalv anyway the program seems to have something personal against me... :)
14:55 textshell well i don't think that's likely.
14:55 jonalv 8.04 but yea
14:56 textshell so when you try to login with the existing account you get a stream error?
14:56 textshell can you open and enable the xml console of that account before trying to login?
14:56 jonalv actually when I start the program I get a dialog Server error with the text: There was an error communicating with the server.
14:56 jonalv Details: XMPP Stream Error: Policy violation
14:57 jonalv but yea that seems to be from autologin
14:57 textshell i assume you have automatic connection on start enabled then.
14:58 textshell if you open the xml console there should be a lot of details that might help finding the reason.
14:58 jonalv yup autolog in is anabled
14:58 textshell xml console is in the contect menu of the account header in the mainwindow.
15:00 jonalv http://pastebin.com/m10047a47
15:01 textshell that's very odd.
15:02 textshell it seems to say you need to enable encryption.
15:02 textshell did you disable encryption in the account settings?
15:02 edrin maybe jabber.org ejabberd is configured that way?
15:02 jonalv oh how do I do that?
15:03 textshell in the account details window, there's a connection tab with the encryption option.
15:03 textshell oh my... http://www.jabber.org/web/​Secure_Communications_Week
15:03 zarah textshell's link is also http://tinyurl.com/4o763d
15:04 edrin haha
15:05 edrin :)
15:05 textshell in short jabber.org wants you to use encryption for this week at least. And psi does pretty bad displaying a meaning full error.
15:05 edrin jonalv: this is something i did not expect ;)
15:05 textshell and i guess less well handling this while account registration?
15:06 edrin obviously jabber.org tries to "convince" ppl to use encryption in this "Secure Communications Week"
15:06 textshell well it should be hard to enable encryption in psi. At worst you need to install one missing package qca2 ossl something likely.
15:07 edrin hehe :) xws4j connects without problems ;)
15:07 jonalv okey that's it. They totally managed to get me convinced that this technology is not mature nor something that is easy to just try out during a sunday.
15:08 edrin jonalv: the technology is mature... it's just the method for advertising "security" is not mature...
15:09 edrin that's like googlmail would reject non-gpg encrpyted emails for one week
15:09 textshell jonalv: it's been a pretty rare corner case, so nobody actually tested the error reporting in this case...
15:09 edrin and! xws4j connects without trouble
15:11 textshell edrin: no it's not quite like forcing people to use gpg. gpg is work. tls is just not disabling the option (it's default in psi since ages) in most cases or installing the right package to enable it.
15:11 edrin yes, maybe
15:12 textshell So it's not like it's a problem in the technologie, depending on your perspektive it's a problem with the management of one of the big public servers, but it's not like you need to use that one there are quite a lot others.
15:12 textshell Or you might even like the idea of makeing sure people are more secure....
15:13 edrin yes
15:14 jonalv well it's just that getting that error the first thing that happends (and no explanation of what policy it's about) totally scares new people away and also screams: "Not only is this not working but we are not gonna tell you why it's not working either..."
15:15 edrin jonalv: sure, but you are on linux. in windows this would not have happened...
15:15 jonalv I am okey with things being broken but I am much less okey with error messages being broken
15:15 textshell jonalv: yes, this error needs to be reported a lot better.
15:15 jonalv edrin: I guess you have a point there...
15:16 textshell we need at least to make sure the additional error message is displayed, i guess it's one of the old places that still don't do that.
15:17 edrin textshell: ic
15:18 jonalv +the fact that when I remove that acount from psi and restart the acount is ther again
15:19 edrin jonalv: ok, with the ayena.de test account you may now open the Service Discovery tool
15:20 edrin jonalv: got this?
15:20 jonalv where is that?
15:21 edrin jonalv in the menu or context menu of your ayena account
15:22 textshell jonalv: last time i tested removing accounts it worked. But 0.11 only saves account changes on exit so if it crashes this might happen.
15:22 edrin jonalv: I can see you found it ;)
15:23 edrin <iq from='test@ayena.de/home' id='aac3a' to='xws.ayena.de' type='get' xml:lang='en'>
15:23 edrin <query xmlns='http://jabber.org/protocol/disco#info'/>
15:23 edrin </iq>
15:23 jonalv textshell: strange it didn't crash I closed it with quit in the menu
15:23 zarah edrin's link is also http://tinyurl.com/3lpj7e
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15:23 edrin jonalv: when you now browse into the xws.ayena.de service, you see all the functions offered
15:24 jonalv yea it seems cool but  Idon't understand the functions :)
15:24 edrin :)
15:25 edrin if you wonder why PSI cannot handle these functions: PSI does not support IO DATA
15:25 edrin xws4j does
15:26 CIA-30 bioclipse: carl_masak * r7232 /bot/trunk/zarah.pl: [zarah] matches "shut up" before "yes/no", also ignores "hokay"
15:26 textshell IO DATA?
15:26 jonalv edrin: oh okey
15:27 edrin jonalv: for example in the Service Discovery, enter the following: psi-im.org
15:27 CIA-30 bioclipse: carl_masak * r7233 /bot/trunk/zarah.pl: [zarah] now does something much better than ignore the "hokay"
15:27 zarah joined #bioclipse
15:27 edrin textshell: Its the (new) xep we are working on: http://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0244.html
15:27 zarah edrin's link is also http://tinyurl.com/49jly3
15:27 jonalv zarah: hokay
15:27 zarah jonalv: so, basically.
15:28 jonalv :)
15:28 textshell jonalv: odd. Psi 0.11 did work for me. And Psi 0.12 has this  code path mostly rewritten....
15:28 textshell edrin: i don't know that one yet...
15:28 edrin textshell: it's for doing web services over XMPP
15:29 edrin and certainly - not the SOAP way
15:29 textshell ah, don't we like soap. neither simple nor object....
15:30 edrin heh ;)
15:30 jonalv textshell: I am guessing we don't?
15:30 jonalv :)
15:32 textshell jonalv: well, it  get's complicated sometimes. And it got a very odd name.
15:33 jonalv I need to look into this webservices things soon. I sort of got that part as my next Bioclipse project somehow... :)
15:33 edrin textshell: I am currently writing on a library for IO DATA called xws4j
15:34 edrin jonalv: you should work in the bc webservices plugin?
15:34 edrin jonalv: ncbi updated its services, good for you ;)
15:34 jonalv edrin: olas thinks so yea. I says he doesn't have the time...
15:35 jonalv and I guess I do for a while at least... :)
15:37 edrin textshell: are you interested in IO DATA/xws for java? i can call you when we have a test version ready for testing
15:38 edrin textshell: test version would be "using xmpp web services from the Bioclipse javacript console"
15:38 textshell i'm not much into java in my spare time, i have enough java at my job. and that's sadly not related to xmpp.
15:39 edrin no problem ;)
15:40 edrin textshell: in any case it is finally more javascript related, like dynamically using xmpp web services from within your eclipse IDE via javascript at runtime ..
15:42 textshell doesn't sound much like web...
15:42 jonalv edrin++ //many cool words in that sentence :)
15:43 edrin textshell: why not?
15:44 textshell because without http or a webbrowser it doesn't sound like web ;)
15:45 edrin ok, call it "xmpp service"
15:46 edrin on the other hand noone has a clue about it
15:47 textshell well call it xmpp rpc then ;)
15:47 edrin ppl associate SOAP with web service, and as xws should do better as SOAP but similar, its web service, but you are right in any case
15:47 textshell if it's like that.
15:47 edrin it is similar
15:47 edrin but session based
15:48 textshell well soap is rpc with envelope. so it sounds like it's rpc.
15:48 edrin but pull only
15:49 textshell no soap isn't poll ;). WS-I probably is poll only though.
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