Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #crimsonfu, 2014-04-01

crimsonfu - sysadmins who code

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:04 pdurbin searchbot: lucky &yet
00:04 searchbot pdurbin: http://andyet.net/
00:05 pdurbin bear: wait, you said you were the twit bear: http://indiewebcamp.com/irc/2014-03-31/line/1396308491
00:05 bear yes, i'm the server person for twit
00:07 pdurbin now I forget who else listens to a lot a podcasts in here (besides me)
00:09 pdurbin oh yeah. jgtimmer: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/2012-12-14#i_6243114
00:10 pdurbin semiosis: could your bot do a "last seen" or something?
00:11 bear most of my bots do that - uses a simple file-per-user to record last channel/comment
00:12 pdurbin yeah
00:12 semiosis i wrote an irc bot for a class project in college, now i just use limnoria
00:12 pdurbin in practice, this works well enough: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/search/?q=jgtimmer
00:12 semiosis no idea how it stores stuff
00:12 semiosis i dont suffer from NIH
00:12 bear limnoria is  supybot based bot
00:12 semiosis right
00:13 semiosis actively maintained
00:13 semiosis lots of features
00:13 bear so it probably uses it's flat file db setup
00:13 semiosis easy interactive configuration
00:13 * bear nods
00:14 semiosis bear: logstashbot is my bot
00:14 semiosis btw
00:15 bear ah - nifty
00:15 bear I thought your nick was familiar
00:15 bear hmm, I think my name is still deep inside of supybot's contrib list someplace
00:15 semiosis cool!  thanks for you contributions
00:15 semiosis i'm very fond of supybot
00:16 bear yep - I used the heck out of it in the early 2000's
00:16 semiosis it's pretty nice, for a python app ;)
00:16 bear :P
00:16 pdurbin bear is on the board of http://xmpp.org/about-xmpp/xsf/
00:16 pdurbin today I learned
00:16 semiosis quite fond of jabber too
00:17 semiosis just sent some kudos to bear in #logstash
00:17 bear I love the bot's nick in logstash
00:17 bear I need to "borrow" that for one of mine
00:17 semiosis that's botbot.me
00:17 semiosis sorry, pdurbin likes fully qualified URLs... https://botbot.me/
00:18 pdurbin semiosis: well, it's for ilbot3 ... for the channel logs
00:18 semiosis they do logging for open source channels (very nice looking logging)
00:18 pdurbin so they're linkable
00:18 pdurbin "XMPP over Websocket, without the need to touch any XML by using JSON-like stanza objects" -- https://github.com/legastero/stanza.io
00:18 bear botbot.me is a great service
00:19 pdurbin yeah. high on my list at http://wiki.greptilian.com/irc/logging
00:28 Whoop aha, its bear, long time no see (we met at Monitorama Boston where I probably made a fool of myself due to large quantities of beer ;) - http://twitter.com/adamgibbins)
00:29 bear hello! (and no worries, I was probably doing the same ;)
00:30 * pdurbin still can't believe he missed it. was traveling
00:30 bear are you going to the one in Portland this year?
00:31 pdurbin semiosis was there too, you know
00:31 Whoop bah, keep forgetting about portland, need to investigate flights
00:31 Whoop and wiggle a trip via the boston office so I can get it on $work
00:32 bear :)
00:36 pdurbin Whoop: you're in boston?
00:37 Whoop No, I'm in London, I'm in boston often though due to $work office there
00:38 Whoop "often" = month or so a year
00:38 pdurbin ah. ok
00:39 * Whoop has no idea how he ended up in this channel ;)
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01:46 Topic for #crimsonfu is now http://crimsonfu.github.com - ConfiguRatIon Management of Systems Or Network kung FU | logs at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/crimsonfu/today
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13:32 hydrajump codex are you using vagrant or fusion to run docker on your Mac?
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13:54 PaxIndustria poke :codex
13:56 pdurbin everyone wants a piece of codex
14:06 hydrajump haha
14:21 PaxIndustria every time I see "codex" in the chat, I think of Felicia Day's Guild Character :p  http://www.watchtheguild.com/characters/codex/
14:21 skay pdurbin: jwz still posts. also, doh. wrong channel. my friend works for lulzbot and in general is in to hardware and robots and so on
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14:31 pdurbin love his post about groupware
14:31 pdurbin searchbot: lucky jwz groupware
14:31 searchbot pdurbin: http://www.jwz.org/doc/groupware.html
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16:28 codex hydrajump: i tried it w/ vagrant, but the thing that pissed me off is that it doesn't forward the ports by default
16:28 codex so i realized it's easier AND much more mimicing production if you just have an Ubuntu VM on your mac and run it all there
17:06 hydrajump interesting. I was reading about the official support of OS X and how they provide instructions for installing the docker client on OS X and then using boot2docker to run a minimal VM in vagrant for the daemon.
17:09 hydrajump Official OS X support seems quite recent and perhaps a bit convoluted.
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17:50 codex PaxIndustria: to your question - I use VMs remotely. Honestly, no real benefit or running it locally (imo) -- it runs the same locally and remotely
17:50 codex might as well have an always on VM
17:51 codex i use DigitalCloud and Amazon
17:51 codex if you use Ubuntu 13.10 - it works by typing 3 commands (add repo key, update, install docker)
17:51 codex Ubuntu is also the only platform that they officially support
17:52 codex one thing I noticed - install 'cgroup-lite' so that you don't get resize errors on the AUFS
17:52 codex it's supposed to be a dependency, but for some reason it's missed I think
17:53 hydrajump codex so you don't run VMs locally?
17:54 hydrajump Not even for the Ubuntu docker VM you mentioned earlier?
17:54 codex not really. I have to mess around, but there is just no point in the long run
17:54 codex hydrajump: everything I use / work with is remote anyway
17:54 codex so what's the point/benefit
17:55 PaxIndustria local dev work?
17:55 codex i utilize a mac for my client, but all of my work is remotely connected
17:55 PaxIndustria model something before deploy?
17:55 codex but this is one of the benefits in docker
17:55 codex deployment is cheap
17:55 codex think git
17:55 codex do you deploy a local VM every time you want to try a branch
17:55 PaxIndustria sometimes, yeah! Vagrant makes that fast and easy
17:55 codex PaxIndustria: it's the netflix model - you can deploy a "farm", and while it's live, remodel it and redploy, and re-point production live
17:56 codex PaxIndustria: you can, but it's just pointless (imo)
17:57 PaxIndustria for example, I might want to work on my puppet chef (docker) deploy scripts locally before ever sending it anywhere
17:57 codex with docker local vs remote is nto really different
17:57 codex every VM becomes a docker "hypervisor"
17:57 hydrajump and not having local VMs means that you always need internet access
17:57 codex and a docker image is just a bunch of commands built into a binary
17:58 codex example: https://index.docker.io/u/ventz/dos/
17:58 codex PaxIndustria: ^
17:58 codex that's a dataOS image built
17:58 codex let's say i am in dev "docker pull ventz/dos"
17:58 codex i go to production "docker pull ventz/dos"
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17:58 PaxIndustria ok, for the sake of argument, how might I do that on my laptop?
17:59 codex so there are two ways
17:59 hydrajump PaxIndustria are you a Mac user too?
17:59 PaxIndustria yup
17:59 hydrajump same here.
17:59 codex 1.) (my prefered) - deploy an Ubuntu 13.10 VM (key is 13.10 b/c it works out of the box)
18:00 codex 2.) the vagrant method - where vagrant creates a "control" vm for you - down side here is the ports are not mapped/oppened by default between the subnets - so you either need to configure vagrant or you need to map each port that you need
18:00 hydrajump As I was says to codex I read Docker's OS X install instructions last night http://docs.docker.io/en/latest/installation/mac/
18:00 codex yea a lot has changed recently there
18:00 hydrajump I haven't decided how I'm going to approach it yet.
18:00 codex boot2docker was "acquired" - and basically updated
18:00 codex which is nice
18:01 hydrajump I've never used vagrant or virtual box. Only VMware stuff, Fusion on my mac.
18:01 codex PaxIndustria: i would do a regular VM and use sshfs or something like that if you want the dev to happeon your laptop
18:01 codex hydrajump: so just launch a VM and access it directly
18:01 codex that was my point that doing that is easier - because fusion/virtual box allow you to accdess the ports locally
18:02 codex so no weird mapping
18:02 hydrajump codex yeah you're preferred option 1 seems like the way to go for me as well
18:02 codex the "native" way with vagrant (which is no longer recommended) requires a mapping in the middle
18:02 codex oh wow - just re-read OS X directions. They took out vagrant completely
18:02 codex i guess a lot of people complained about the ports
18:02 hydrajump create an new ubuntu vm, install docker inside it and run the daemon and client inside the VM. SSH into the VM from OS X and play with docker.
18:03 codex hydrajump: yep - so your "launch" happens in the VM. you use your OS X browser/clients to interact with the VM services
18:04 codex hydrajump, pdurbin, PaxIndustria: brew on os x has docker already
18:04 codex i would go that route for the client if you want to use your mac 100% and connect remotely (even from the client/deployment side)
18:05 PaxIndustria we actually had a work around for the port forwarding bit at $work which was nixed by our security team :)
18:06 hydrajump codex yeah I saw that docker was in home-brew, but that is just the client right.
18:06 codex yea
18:06 codex b/c the client simply uses a socker (on server by default) or port (if you add line to docker daemon to allow API via tcp/udp)
18:06 codex so you can use the client anywhere
18:07 hydrajump boot2docker is also in homebrew
18:07 codex yep
18:07 codex boot2docker has been greatly improved and slimmed down
18:07 codex i like it. It used to be old and outdated
18:07 hydrajump have you used virtual box or fusion with vagrant provider?
18:09 codex you can only use virtualbox
18:09 codex fusion does'nt expose APIs for vagrant
18:10 codex fusion will only work if you deploy a VM yourself
18:10 hydrajump but vagrant as an add-on provider for fusion. I just haven't used vagrant or the provider. http://www.vagrantup.com/vmware
18:11 PaxIndustria I've used the fusion plugin
18:11 PaxIndustria er just in general not for docker :p
18:11 hydrajump any good PaxIndustria
18:11 PaxIndustria yeah actually
18:11 PaxIndustria it works pretty much as described
18:12 PaxIndustria I've also had good luck with the AWS plugin too
18:12 hydrajump have you compared fusion + vagrant provider against virtual box and vagrant?
18:12 hydrajump Isn't the vmware fusion hypervisor superior to virtual box or is that myth?
18:14 PaxIndustria Hmmm I haven't noticed it being more awesome, but I haven't looked all that hard either, for most of what I've been doing I've been using virtual box provider just out of habit
18:18 hydrajump and you're just also getting started with docker?
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18:22 codex didn't fusion allow partners to work with it's API
18:22 codex i know there is one, but i don't think it's free
18:23 codex i would assume there is some way to run it on fusion (but guessing it would'nt be free to end consumer b/c of fees company would have to pay for fusion api)
18:23 codex hydrajump: i saw the stats recently (and given I am biased possitively towards fusion) -- virtualbox on the OS X performs the best out of all 3 major prvodiers (3rd being parallels)
19:00 PaxIndustria well, FWIW I've been playing with fusion and other then kicking me off VPN every time I do a vagrant up, it's been pretty ok
19:09 hydrajump codex really vbox better than fusion.
19:13 * Whoop prefers fusion, no licensing issues, doesn't cause kernel coredumps on "early" OSX releases etc
19:14 Whoop I replaced parallels, fuck those guys and their constant upsell, despite having already brought the product
19:14 Whoop also doesnt work with vagrant ofc
19:15 hydrajump Whoop you use the fusion vagrant provider?
19:19 Whoop yeah
19:29 hydrajump I think I'm going to get it as well so I can interact with fusion with CLI
19:29 hydrajump fusion has worked extremely well for me so I don't see why I'd move to vbox for the virtualisation bit.
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21:06 pdurbin codex: want to add Docker to https://github.com/crimsonfu/crimsonfu.github.com/blob/master/_includes/topics.yaml for us? :) And otherwise clean up that list?
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21:55 codex hydrajump: performance supposedly
21:55 codex i still prefer and use fusion
23:58 pdurbin codex: you're less of an open source zealot than I am. most are :)
23:58 * pdurbin eyes PaxIndustria

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crimsonfu - sysadmins who code