Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #crimsonfu, 2016-11-06

crimsonfu - sysadmins who code

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Time Nick Message
12:22 pdurbin speaking of hosting, I find this interesting: https://meta.discourse.org/t/vote-for-discourse-on-sandstorm-io/52368
12:29 pdurbin For almost two years I've been thinking we should set up Discourse at work. The plan is to just pay Discourse Inc. for hosting. (I assume data liberation is possible.) I've been iterating on a proposal for quite a while and I'd be happy to get feedback on it. It's a Google doc and public comments are enabled.
12:30 pdurbin Crossroads: What if members of the IQSS community with technical expertise helped each other via a public forum? https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H-mODHLRcGa0dYpzFuIKRrn558fGNX70XNEybK_oOxM/edit?usp=sharing
12:32 pdurbin huh, I thought I mentioned #crimsonfu in there
12:36 pdurbin ok, I just added a "Why wouldn't I just post in #crimsonfu?" section
13:10 pdurbin hmm, these days I'm not very satisfied with what I wrote at http://crimsonfu.github.io/topics
13:11 pdurbin last updated Jul 14, 2012... that explains it... we have a better sense of what actual topics are discussed in this channel these days
13:15 * pdurbin opens an issue: update topics page (what is #crimsonfu about these days?) · Issue #4 · crimsonfu/crimsonfu.github.com - https://github.com/crimsonfu/crimsonfu.github.com/issues/4
13:42 pdurbin I just added a section about Slack to the Crossroads doc.
14:36 bene don't you already have a google group?
14:36 bene why would yet-another-web-forum encourage the users to support each other?
14:40 bene sbgrid set up a web forum after i left
14:40 bene https://forums.sbgrid.org/#AllForums
14:41 bene all the content is from employees
14:42 pdurbin huh, powered by Zoho: https://www.zoho.com
14:43 pdurbin bene: that sbgrid thing reminds me of https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/odybot
14:45 pdurbin bene: no, there is no Google Group for all of http://www.iq.harvard.edu
14:47 pdurbin in the doc I already address the ghost town issue
14:48 bene i've read it before actually
14:49 pdurbin oh!
14:49 bene you've been thinking about this for a while now :-)
14:49 pdurbin yeah
14:50 pdurbin the concern is actualy the opposite, that it will become so popular it will become an administrative burden
14:50 pdurbin so a line or two was recently added to address this
14:50 bene i'm not sure i understand that concern
14:51 bene if it was popular and useful for skill sharing, wouldn't that relieve some burden on the tech support staff?
14:51 bene sysadmin for something like discourse should not be that tough
14:53 pdurbin yes, so ideally at least one person who is currently doing tech support would be an admin in the Discourse instance
14:54 pdurbin so I'll be pinging people listed at http://www.iq.harvard.edu/people/people/research-technology
14:55 bene looks like discourse is released as a docker image
14:55 bene so install should be pretty quick if you have any container infra at all
14:56 pdurbin I don't have any container infra but AWS does. It's on my list to see if this Docker thing works: https://github.com/IQSS/dataverse-aws/blob/master/deploy.sh
14:56 pdurbin I would *love* for anyone in this channel to tell me if it "just works".
15:20 bene https://qa.rc.hms.harvard.edu/ <- i think being popular should not be a worry
15:21 pdurbin interesting! 129 questions ain't bad
15:22 bene they're all reposts of emailed questions
15:22 bene 80% anyway
15:22 bene if you click through to the posters and look at their names, they are mostly HMS RC staff
15:24 bene 4 questions in the last 10 months, none of them from RC staff and 3 of them don't have answers
15:25 bene that's a bitnami app too
15:25 bene interesting
15:34 pdurbin Reposts? Are you saying that some tech support person is copying and pasting questions from a user?
15:34 bene yes
15:35 bene that's how they seeded the forum to begin with
15:35 pdurbin bleh
15:35 bene heh
15:35 pdurbin I mean, if it worked, fine.
15:37 pdurbin I bet the people who set up these forums haven't listened to all the episodes of the StackOverflow and StackExchange podcasts to internalize their ideas on how to run a site like this. :)
15:37 bene are your users complaining that they can't find answers to their technical problems?
15:37 pdurbin I'm not sure what you mean by "your users".
15:37 bene or is support saying that are spending too much time answering basic questions? or repeatedly answering the same questions?
15:38 bene your "what problem does it solve" section looks like a solution in search of a problem
15:38 bene putting on my business hat, there's no way i would fund a project with a nebulous goal like that
15:39 pdurbin this is the problem: "Currently when members of the IQSS community have a problem that requires technical expertise to solve they probably search for the answer online and if they can't readily find it..."
15:40 bene that is the problem
15:40 bene dependent suppositions
15:40 bene show me the data
15:40 bene :-)
15:40 pdurbin this is the other problem: "people are somewhat siloed in their own groups"
15:41 bene when i say "your users", i mean the people you are trying to help
15:41 pdurbin I'm trying to help all the people who swing by my office.
15:41 bene and how many is that per day?
15:41 bene how much time are you spending helping these people?
15:43 bene why are silos a problem? how do you know they are siloed?
15:43 bene i mean they're phd's, yeah?
15:43 bene so they are already mostly siloed
15:43 bene in their specific area of expertise
15:44 bene http://matt.might.net/articles/phd-school-in-pictures/
15:44 pdurbin to answer that I'd probably differentiate which people we're talking about. there's people on my team (many times a day), people installing the sofware I help write (a few times a week), and people on my floor (a time or two per month)
15:45 pdurbin heh. "that dent you've made is called a Ph.D."
15:46 pdurbin the thing is, I'm not the other person with "users"
15:46 pdurbin er
15:46 pdurbin the thing is, I'm not the only person with users
15:47 pdurbin additionally, I have technical problems all the time. I'll be a user of this forum myself
15:48 bene technical problems you don't have other means of answering?
15:48 pdurbin of course there are other means
15:49 pdurbin but people on stackoverflow don't care about me or my problem. there is no sense of community
15:49 pdurbin I like to think there's a sense of community here in #crimsonfu.
15:50 pdurbin I try to foster a sense of community at https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/dataverse-community
15:50 pdurbin I try to foster a sense of community at https://lists.iq.harvard.edu/mailman/listinfo/techtalkfollowup
15:52 pdurbin I try to foster a sense of community at http://irclog.iq.harvard.edu/dataverse/today
15:56 bene we should do lunch
15:56 bene i have more thoughts, but i don't want to type them all out
15:56 bene i have homework to do
16:00 pdurbin heh, and I'm trying to do laundry and dishes and wash my kid
16:00 pdurbin 's hair
16:01 pdurbin but yeah, I'd love to hear more about why this idea isn't worth a hundred bucks a month or whatever hosting costs through Discourse Inc.
16:04 bene if that's the only cost, then that's a cheap experiment and you should totally do it
16:05 pdurbin yeah, and we'll shut it down after a year if no value is added
16:06 pdurbin liberate the data, make a static version, I guess, post it somewhere as read only
16:11 pdurbin Maybe I should add a section about the theory or thinking behind Crossroads. But I could always write that up at the point we have to pull the plug on it. If it's working, it probably doesn't need a write up, unless other people want to create their own.
16:13 pdurbin It could either get written up as a paper or a postmortem :)
16:14 pdurbin If it ever gets written up as a paper it would certainly cite this one: http://j.mp/17Cobeu
17:48 pdurbin bene: I'm having lunch with codex this week but I have no idea if he wants to talk about this stuff. :)
18:18 hydrajum1 buy him lunch and he has no choice :P
18:27 pdurbin heh
18:28 pdurbin hydrajum1: any opinions on this stuff?
18:36 hydrajum1 pdurbin: the mac iphotos stuff?
18:39 pdurbin heh, any of it
18:40 pdurbin '“Why wasn't I consulted,” which I abbreviate as WWIC, is the fundamental question of the web.' http://www.ftrain.com/wwic.html
18:40 hydrajum1 hehe ok I haven't read the recent discussion that you and bene had
18:44 hydrajum1 isn't the solution to all this use slack and setup lots of channels :P
18:45 pdurbin nope, just today I added a section about Slack: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H-mODHLRcGa0dYpzFuIKRrn558fGNX70XNEybK_oOxM/edit?usp=sharing
18:46 pdurbin I mean, Slack is fine for teams. That's not what Crossroads is about though. It's about a bigger tent.
18:49 hydrajum1 I don't have any experience running a forum, but I've been a user on a discourse forum and it has been a great way to get help from the community
19:01 pdurbin_m joined #crimsonfu
19:03 pdurbin_m hydrajum1: that's encouraging. I haven't actually used Discourse much. I think it'll be fine though.
19:34 pdurbin In general I hate forums. The closest thing to a forum that I like is GitHub issues.
22:41 pdurbin Ok, who knows something about Docker?
22:42 pdurbin I just created an image or whatever. I can see it by running `docker images`. How can I upload it to AWS and run it?

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