| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:00 |
|
eivuokko |
Do you mean putty warnings or your control master-check? |
| 00:01 |
|
kowey |
i mean, like telling you scp progress |
| 00:01 |
|
kowey |
(pscp) |
| 00:01 |
|
eivuokko |
That acn be get rid of by supplying -q via environment |
| 00:01 |
|
eivuokko |
But, yeah, it is annoying and almost totally uninformative. |
| 00:02 |
|
kowey |
hmm... yeah, that makes life hard for me then |
| 00:02 |
|
eivuokko |
darcs really should have general framework on invoking external utilities. |
| 00:02 |
|
kowey |
putty seems to interact by putting prompts on stdout |
| 00:02 |
|
eivuokko |
And less using environent and more config files. |
| 00:02 |
|
kowey |
instead of on /dev/tty (or the windows equivalent) |
| 00:02 |
|
eivuokko |
There is no convient Windows equivalent, I think. |
| 00:02 |
|
kowey |
argh |
| 00:03 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
Is there a reason that you target putty rather than openssh? I might be misreading. |
| 00:03 |
|
kowey |
i have something that fixes redirection to /dev/null on windows |
| 00:03 |
|
eivuokko |
ricky, putty is much nicer to install. |
| 00:03 |
|
kowey |
but me fixing this, means that i "break" putty, because now you no longer know when putty is asking for your password |
| 00:03 |
|
eivuokko |
kowey, Are you sure it works in all cases? It is very tricky. |
| 00:04 |
|
eivuokko |
Does using gpg work after that? Does invoking sendmail command work after that? (that being your fix) |
| 00:04 |
|
kowey |
no idea, i'm not on windows |
| 00:04 |
|
eivuokko |
It also might break win9x, which we might not support. |
| 00:04 |
|
kowey |
only thing i can do is make sure the fix compiles, and then hope a windows guy tests it |
| 00:05 |
|
kowey |
but the "fix" consists of dumping stdout to a temp file (and ignore it)... this simulates /dev/null |
| 00:05 |
|
kowey |
but i guess we can't do that |
| 00:05 |
|
kowey |
no big deal though... my recent ssh-stuff doesn't require this, i guess |
| 00:05 |
|
eivuokko |
When using shell stuff, like darc sdoes in Windows. You can use NUL, it's Windows equivalanet of /dev/null, instead of unneccesary temp file. |
| 00:06 |
|
kowey |
ah very good, but still the essential problem with putty (unless i'm mistaken) |
| 00:06 |
|
eivuokko |
Yes, it was just a note. |
| 00:06 |
|
kowey |
is that fixing redirection to /dev/null (i.e. by sending it to NUL) breaks putty |
| 00:06 |
|
eivuokko |
Yes. |
| 00:06 |
|
eivuokko |
Likely anyway. |
| 00:07 |
|
eivuokko |
I'm not promising to compile Windows darcs, but if you have binaries and good test-case, I'll test. |
| 00:07 |
|
kowey |
sigh... i wonder what else might break... little else, i'd hope, because gpg and sendmail probably do standard unixy things |
| 00:07 |
|
eivuokko |
I'll try to get around to hack darcs sometime (for Windows compatibility), but it's too unmotivating, so it might not last again. |
| 00:08 |
|
kowey |
what would be useful is a putty wrapper, if one of you folks can build it |
| 00:08 |
|
eivuokko |
Eh |
| 00:08 |
|
eivuokko |
Uhm |
| 00:08 |
|
kowey |
said wrapper should allow us to redirect stdout/stderr, but still somehow interact with the user |
| 00:08 |
|
eivuokko |
Tricky. |
| 00:08 |
|
eivuokko |
Good idea, but very likely tricky. |
| 00:09 |
|
kowey |
so there really is no simple windows equivalent of foo > /dev/tty, huh? |
| 00:09 |
|
eivuokko |
Well |
| 00:09 |
|
eivuokko |
Yeah, there are console functions in winapi |
| 00:09 |
|
kowey |
cringes |
| 00:09 |
|
eivuokko |
But assosiating console with c filehandles and haskell filehandles might be tricky, impossible or require atleast poking ghc rts (which won't propagate as usefull feature for months) |
| 00:10 |
|
arete |
you've got to be careful not to break darcs running inside emacs/rxvt/etc though |
| 00:10 |
|
arete |
since those aren't treated as console |
| 00:10 |
|
kowey |
ooh... i wonder how all this works under windows |
| 00:10 |
|
kowey |
ok, no, i need to stop thinking about this and focus on the ssh stuff |
| 00:11 |
|
kowey |
i leave the windows-stuff to somebody who actually knows windows |
| 00:11 |
|
eivuokko |
Yeah, like rest of darcs devels :) |
| 00:11 |
|
eivuokko |
During the last year, just about every Windows-workaround in darcs has been broken :) |
| 00:12 |
|
kowey |
i wonder if it would be reasonable to say that this behaviour (user interactions on stdout) is a putty bug |
| 00:12 |
|
kowey |
(assuming that's actually what's going on) |
| 00:12 |
|
eivuokko |
I am fairly sure you can tell it to shut it |
| 00:12 |
|
eivuokko |
With right commandline, that is |
| 00:12 |
|
kowey |
well, making putty quiet is not the problem |
| 00:13 |
|
kowey |
the problem is actually making putty talkative enough so that you know that you've got a password prompt |
| 00:13 |
|
eivuokko |
Failing when asking password instead of stopping would work usually, would it not? |
| 00:13 |
|
kowey |
? |
| 00:13 |
|
kowey |
failing when asking password? |
| 00:14 |
|
eivuokko |
Eh, sorry. Failing when it needs password |
| 00:14 |
|
eivuokko |
and stopping=stopping to ask password at prompt |
| 00:14 |
|
eivuokko |
Ok, I'll check the docs if that is possible... |
| 00:14 |
|
kowey |
you mean darcs should fail? (sorry, it's kinda late, i'm getting confused easily) |
| 00:15 |
|
eivuokko |
pscp should fail |
| 00:15 |
|
eivuokko |
And it does |
| 00:15 |
|
kowey |
the thing is that i'm running the putty Unix port and guessing its windows behaviour from here |
| 00:15 |
|
eivuokko |
if you use -batch option |
| 00:15 |
|
kowey |
well, no, you _want_ the password prompt |
| 00:15 |
|
kowey |
the cute thing is (guessing) |
| 00:15 |
|
eivuokko |
No, you really don't. It's insane to use it with it. |
| 00:15 |
|
kowey |
that's a different story |
| 00:15 |
|
eivuokko |
And if was toggleable on darcs prompt whetever to use it and hiding statisticsc, no prob. |
| 00:16 |
|
kowey |
i mean, I at least want darcs-ssh to work as well as it did before any of my cm stuff |
| 00:16 |
|
eivuokko |
Just add another option, --putty and make people use that with putty and do the right thing? |
| 00:16 |
|
kowey |
(although, another completely unrelated thing, is that darcs could ask for the ssh password and then pass it in on the commandline to ssh/scp) |
| 00:17 |
|
eivuokko |
Passing passwords on commandline is insecure. |
| 00:17 |
|
kowey |
you mean, that when --putty, we don't redirect stdout to /dev/null? |
| 00:17 |
|
eivuokko |
It is possible to spy them from another unprivileged account afair |
| 00:18 |
|
eivuokko |
kowey, When using --putty, run pscp.exe and plink.exe, use -q and -batch on commandlines, don't try control master |
| 00:18 |
|
eivuokko |
And allow putty-session syntax |
| 00:18 |
|
eivuokko |
:) |
| 00:18 |
|
kowey |
well, the control master bit is solved, afaik |
| 00:18 |
|
kowey |
i just parse the help, instead of doing weird stuff |
| 00:18 |
|
kowey |
pscp/plink is "solved" by environment variables, although that is clearly a pain |
| 00:19 |
|
kowey |
passing -q and -batch (wait... batch? why?) sounds like a good idea |
| 00:19 |
|
eivuokko |
Because that stops it asking password |
| 00:19 |
|
eivuokko |
You probably need another option to enable that behaviour... |
| 00:20 |
|
kowey |
is there an equivalent to control-master-like behaviour with putty? |
| 00:20 |
|
eivuokko |
No |
| 00:20 |
|
kowey |
(that would mean i can stop asking for that password?) |
| 00:20 |
|
eivuokko |
Huh? |
| 00:20 |
|
kowey |
otherwise, why would i want to stop putty for asking for a password? |
| 00:20 |
|
eivuokko |
Asking the password is impossible to use in practice |
| 00:20 |
|
kowey |
you mean, because we have to type the password in 10 million times? |
| 00:20 |
|
eivuokko |
Because it asks it for every patch etc file copied from remote repo? |
| 00:21 |
|
eivuokko |
I'd rather it said the error message: can't auth or whatever |
| 00:21 |
|
eivuokko |
I'd know to start key maanger or read docs or ask on irc or ask on mailing list. |
| 00:21 |
|
kowey |
I see : you think that with putty, we should force the use ssh-agent or something else |
| 00:21 |
|
eivuokko |
Instead of thinking: "Mand darcs+putty on Windows sucks, why does it even work" |
| 00:22 |
|
eivuokko |
kowey, I doubt anyone really uses it without using one. |
| 00:22 |
|
kowey |
well, we've sort of lived with typing the password in 10 million times on Unix before CM |
| 00:22 |
|
kowey |
or just using ssh-agent |
| 00:22 |
|
kowey |
so it's not a putty-specific problem |
| 00:22 |
|
eivuokko |
Well, it probably is easier to use putty's agent than unixy agent |
| 00:22 |
|
arete |
quite a few people have actually complained that putty stops prompting for the password after a while and fails ;) |
| 00:23 |
|
kowey |
like i said, i'm more interested in making darcs+putty not-broken... making it practical is a whole other story for me |
| 00:23 |
|
eivuokko |
Well |
| 00:23 |
|
eivuokko |
Try checking out something 100+patches repo with it asking password all the time...if that is works for you... |
| 00:23 |
|
eivuokko |
"works" |
| 00:24 |
|
kowey |
:-) |
| 00:24 |
|
eivuokko |
Of course, matter of opinion. And I do appreciate work and thought you put in this. |
| 00:24 |
|
eivuokko |
Thanks. |
| 00:24 |
|
kowey |
maybe if we whine enough, the putty people will implement control master |
| 00:24 |
|
eivuokko |
It's in their wish list |
| 00:24 |
|
eivuokko |
But it's said to be hard to implement on the tracker thingy. |
| 00:24 |
|
kowey |
oh dear |
| 00:24 |
|
eivuokko |
So, no holding breath. |
| 00:25 |
|
eivuokko |
What would be much better, was asking putty installer (there is one nowdays) to register itself in registry, and hacking darcs to use that registry key, so that installing putty+darcs would be easy. |
| 00:26 |
|
eivuokko |
I think there is uninstall key only, but no path to putty execs in installer. |
| 00:26 |
|
kowey |
well, one easy thing i can do |
| 00:26 |
|
kowey |
is an ifdef that makes plink/pscp the default ssh/scp on windows |
| 00:26 |
|
eivuokko |
Tell on mailing list that Windows people should work on this? |
| 00:26 |
|
eivuokko |
No don't |
| 00:27 |
|
eivuokko |
That causes no end for the scremas from the openssh users in cygwin or msys env |
| 00:27 |
|
kowey |
nods |
| 00:27 |
|
arete |
it is easy enough to rename your putty to ssh anyway, that's what I do |
| 00:28 |
|
eivuokko |
It is stupid when it'd be easy to add --putty flag to darcs, imo. |
| 00:29 |
|
eivuokko |
And trying to find putty execs in a) next to darcs.ex b) in Program Files\whatever c) registry key if there is standard one for putty |
| 00:31 |
|
eivuokko |
shuts up and goes back lurking |
| 00:45 |
|
kowey |
actually... |
| 00:45 |
|
kowey |
maybe we should *not* redirect stdout to /dev/null when running ssh |
| 00:46 |
|
kowey |
i think openssh also supports a -q flag |
| 00:46 |
|
kowey |
so what we could do is not redirect, and just use -q universally |
| 02:00 |
|
vincenz |
h |
| 02:00 |
|
vincenz |
hi |
| 02:00 |
|
vincenz |
anyone up? |
| 02:00 |
|
eivuokko |
Yup |
| 02:01 |
|
vincenz |
I have written a small tool to mass pull from one darcs forest to another darcs forest |
| 02:01 |
|
vincenz |
it will even prompt you if in the to-forest a repo is missing |
| 02:01 |
|
vincenz |
however it'd be nice to tell it to stop recursing in parts of the forest |
| 02:01 |
|
vincenz |
so I'm considering putting a small file there |
| 02:01 |
|
vincenz |
how does _darcstop sound? |
| 02:02 |
|
eivuokko |
_darcs/prefs/3rdparty/darcs-apply/nouprecurce and nodownrecurse? :) |
| 02:02 |
|
vincenz |
eivuokko: well erm |
| 02:02 |
|
eivuokko |
I don't exactly recall where darcs recommends to put external tool prefs |
| 02:02 |
|
eivuokko |
But it was something like that. |
| 02:02 |
|
vincenz |
it'd be for directories that are not darcs repos |
| 02:02 |
|
vincenz |
imagine |
| 02:02 |
|
eivuokko |
Uhm |
| 02:02 |
|
vincenz |
work/repo1 |
| 02:02 |
|
vincenz |
work/ext/repo2 |
| 02:02 |
|
vincenz |
work/ext/repo3 |
| 02:02 |
|
eivuokko |
Mmhm |
| 02:03 |
|
vincenz |
and I don't want darcs-apply to prompt me for the entire work/ext branch |
| 02:03 |
|
eivuokko |
Yeah, it'd need to be a bit akward and repeating. |
| 02:04 |
|
eivuokko |
I'd say _darcsapplyroot or something, but that's just diffrent name. Nothing else comes immediately into my mind. |
| 02:28 |
|
vincenz |
I'll go with dons' suggestion of using an option isntead of my original idea of tagging places with files |
| 03:39 |
|
kowey |
so wait, telling ssh explicitly to interact via /dev/tty is bad because it would break emacs/rxvt/etc based darcs, right? |
| 03:40 |
|
kowey |
is there then some easy magical equivalent to "/dev/tty" that gives me the... uh... current pseudo terminal, or whatever the heck it is that lets me make sure ssh actually talks to the user? |
| 03:40 |
|
eivuokko |
Isn't there tty for unix programs always, except if they are daemons? |
| 03:41 |
|
kowey |
does not know his way around unix (or actually any operating system) |
| 03:42 |
|
kowey |
but my guess would be that, if if there were, it isn't neccesarily what you want |
| 03:42 |
|
kowey |
consider, for example, launching a gui emacs |
| 03:42 |
|
eivuokko |
Yes. |
| 03:42 |
|
kowey |
tty would be the terminal from which you launched it, but the user isn't looking at that terminal |
| 03:42 |
|
eivuokko |
Yes. :) |
| 03:42 |
|
kowey |
he's looking at the emacs window with its emulator thingy |
| 03:43 |
|
kowey |
hmmph... just when i thought i had this all wrappen up |
| 03:55 |
|
lispy |
kowey: i wouldn't be surprised if ncurses had some functions for whatever magic you want to do with the terminal |
| 03:56 |
|
kowey |
aww man, i'm getting that in over-my-head feeling again |
| 03:57 |
|
eivuokko |
Yeah, UI stuff tends to lead wierd deps in system |
| 04:16 |
|
eivuokko |
About ghc c--, I wonder if I am really right and it's just lucky that x86 has never died of register starvation because compiler ran out of places to spill register into when stg reg structure comes full. |
| 04:18 |
|
njs |
kowey: if you run a program from M-x shell in emacs, the tty is the emacs buffer (effectively) |
| 04:18 |
|
njs |
kowey: that's beacuse M-x shell takes the effort to set up a pty, like rxvt/xterm do |
| 04:20 |
|
kowey |
oh, so using "/dev/tty" should be ok for them, then? |
| 04:21 |
|
kowey |
i had done some test running darcs from vim (using !), and got the impression that it didn't work, and so just randomly figured i was in trouble for the rest |
| 04:25 |
|
njs |
! probably doesn't use a tty |
| 07:56 |
|
roconnor |
does darcs send require a properly functioning sendmail on the local machine? |
| 07:58 |
|
lelit |
no |
| 07:58 |
|
lelit |
I mean, you can write the patch to a file, and then bring that to a mail-enpowered site |
| 07:59 |
|
roconnor |
right |
| 07:59 |
|
roconnor |
my laptop doesn't deliver mail, so I'll have to do that |
| 08:27 |
|
tuomov |
you could also use esmtp or something |
| 08:27 |
|
tuomov |
it sucks that there's no decent sendmail clone.. |
| 08:28 |
|
tuomov |
all seem to be geared for central servers, or don't do local delivery at all (for system messages etc.) |
| 08:29 |
|
tuomov |
esmtp at least can be configured quite easily (and per user) for stuffing things on the isp's server, but it doesn't do local delivery |
| 15:44 |
|
kowey |
so, i'd like to invite Pascal Molli (so6) to discuss with us patch theory, darcs, and his rcs |
| 15:44 |
|
kowey |
what would be the best place for this: darcs-users, darcs-devel, or darcs-conflicts, or something else? |
| 15:45 |
|
lispy |
patch theory? sounds like darcs-conflicts, but not many people are on that list it's not a good place to get an audience |
| 15:45 |
|
lispy |
what is so6? |
| 15:47 |
|
lispy |
kowey: http://dev.libresource.org/hom[…]c/so6-user-manual ?? |
| 15:47 |
|
lambdabot |
Title: "LibreSource - So6 User Manual" |
| 15:49 |
|
kowey |
so6 is a patch-based revision control system |
| 15:50 |
|
kowey |
the author says he knows a little bit about patch theory and would like to know more |
| 15:50 |
|
kowey |
his approach (if i understand arjanb correctly) is quite different from darcs |
| 15:50 |
|
kowey |
but there are things we might be able to learn from each other |
| 15:50 |
|
kowey |
or if not, maybe the discussion will be fun to have |
| 15:52 |
|
lispy |
yeah, that really sounds like darcs-conflicts |
| 15:57 |
|
Heffalump |
the web page seems pretty confusing |
| 15:57 |
|
Heffalump |
oh, actually I think I see. |
| 15:57 |
|
Heffalump |
Sounds very similar to darcs. |
| 16:06 |
|
kowey |
i have invited him to subscribe to darcs-conflicts |
| 16:06 |
|
kowey |
if he does so, i will post a mail to darcs-devel, and rouse the #revctrl people |
| 16:37 |
|
aFlag |
I want to get a file that I've deleted through darcs back, it was saved on earlier patches |
| 16:38 |
|
eivuokko |
Check out repo on new directory and unpull the patch that removes the file. |
| 16:38 |
|
lelit |
or rollback the same patch |
| 18:10 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
Hi. I just edited some stuff in _darcs by accident. |
| 18:10 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
What should I do? |
| 18:12 |
|
Igloo |
darcs repair, assuming you mean _darcs/current/ |
| 18:13 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
No, pristine. |
| 18:13 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
I can grab the _darcs from another copy I suppose. |
| 18:13 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
I might just see if I can my editor to restore stuff. |
| 18:14 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
I know, diff _darcs otherrepo/_darcs should do it. |
| 18:15 |
|
Igloo |
current and pristine are the same thing |
| 18:15 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
Ok. |
| 18:15 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
darcs repair then? |
| 18:15 |
|
Igloo |
Yup |
| 18:16 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
It told me I have different file lengths for _darcs/pristine/somefile and _darcs/newpristine/somefile |
| 18:16 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
Fixing pristine tree... then exited. |
| 18:16 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
Do I need to do anything? |
| 18:16 |
|
Igloo |
It should have fixed it for you |
| 18:16 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
By applying all the patches? |
| 18:17 |
|
Igloo |
Right |
| 18:17 |
|
ricky_clarkson |
I see, thanks. And 'Phew'. |
| 18:24 |
|
vmiklos |
hi |
| 18:24 |
|
vmiklos |
using multiple apply --posthook foo in the defaults file is ok? |
| 18:24 |
|
vmiklos |
or what is the recommended way to use multiple hooks? |
| 19:16 |
|
lispy |
vmiklos: iirc you there can be only one |
| 19:16 |
|
lispy |
vmiklos: you can get around this multiple ways, you can use && or ; to list multiple commands on one line or you can write a script that combines them and call that |
| 19:46 |
|
vmiklos |
lispy: yes, that's what i did, a makefile target with multiple purposes |
| 23:54 |
|
aFlag |
in order to upgrade my repository from darcs 1.0.2 to 1.0.8 do I have to anything? |
