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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:38 | Igloo | Does anyone know where the Windows equivalent of ~/.darcs/defaults is? |
| 01:01 | darcscommitbot joined #darcs | |
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| 03:25 | gwern | @ask kowey how are you editing gitit? I notice no email seems to be showing up for your patches, just 'kowey <>' |
| 03:25 | lambdabot | Consider it noted. |
| 03:25 | twb | I assumed he was using the web UI |
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| 08:29 | lelit | hi all |
| 08:30 | yesterday I got a strange behaviour with darcs mv, one of those cases where darcs reorder the hunks in a surprising way | |
| 08:31 | here is the recipe: http://pastebin.com/m462df8c3 | |
| 08:31 | I was restructuring one repo, moving stuff around; in particular, I need to "promote" a "sub-sub" folder up to the top level, and then add a few other files to it | |
| 08:33 | why the two different ways darcs handle the move of files in the renamed folder? | |
| 08:35 | all in all, it works, but these are the cases where tailor (and trac-darcs) needs to be tricky | |
| 08:37 | twb | lelit: if it's reproducible, I suggest reporting to bugs darcs.net |
| 08:37 | lelit | ok |
| 09:21 | twb, sent, with an even more surprising finding... | |
| 09:25 | while cleaning up the script for the mail, suddenly it stopped to be surprising... so the mail comes with *two* scripts, almost identical, that at one point creates two different named subdirs: one shows the behaviour I said, the other not... | |
| 09:33 | a doubt: is darcs sorting the hunks in alphabetic order?? | |
| 09:34 | later | |
| 09:34 | twb | IME darcs optimize --reorder will use date ordering |
| 09:35 | Or do you mean ordering within a patch? | |
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| 10:08 | lelit` | twb, no, I meant: the two different behaviours of the scripts I sent, I notice that the order of the moves in "darcs changes --last=1" is alphabetical... |
| 10:09 | so, in one example, "another/file -> folder/subfolder/file" comes first, while in the other case "third/file -> promoted/" comes last | |
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| 16:45 | mornfall | Re kowey. |
| 16:45 | kowey | hey mornfall |
| 16:45 | lambdabot | kowey: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. |
| 16:46 | kowey | gwern: I tend to edit gitit through the web interface |
| 16:46 | mainly because I haven't seem to have memorised the rules for RST yet, so I tend to rely on preview | |
| 16:56 | * mornfall | is exploring GADTs, witness types and type families... |
| 16:57 | * copumpkin | prefers to leave no witnesses |
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| 17:20 | kowey | hi sm... quick question about roundup |
| 17:20 | sm | shoot |
| 17:20 | kowey | should I worry about passwords when I merge users? |
| 17:20 | I guess I'm vaguely concerned about leaving somebody without the ability to log in | |
| 17:21 | I guess the answer is to merge away and then let the pw reset mechanism take care of the rest (with an explicit notification) | |
| 17:21 | sm | kowey: sounds good |
| 17:23 | kowey | OK, thanks! I guess I'll collect messages and send notifications |
| 17:23 | *collect emails | |
| 17:23 | sm | no point spending your valuable time avoiding every possible glitch, if it's not losing any data |
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| 18:18 | dino- | After lot of trouble, I was able to get darcs to build using cabal-install and the Haskell Platform on WinXP. But the binary always immediately exits with no output and an exit code of 128. |
| 18:19 | The trouble I allude to was all libcurl related. | |
| 18:19 | Does this sound familiar to anyone? | |
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| 19:53 | kowey | hi dino-, I noticed in the IRC logs that you were having Windows trouble |
| 19:54 | it might be worth sending an email to bugsdarcs.net with full logs |
|
| 19:54 | our Windows expert is on holiday for the month, but maybe the rest of us can try and help | |
| 19:55 | perhaps one thing to try: how about installing without libcurl support (using HTTP instead)? | |
| 20:12 | mornfall | Hm. This whole type proof business is a little unwieldy. |
| 20:12 | Brb. | |
| 20:25 | Back. | |
| 20:26 | Hm, admittedly, I'm not really in the right state to be writing this final report. Bah. But I really should get it done sooner rather than later. | |
| 20:32 | ronny joined #darcs | |
| 20:32 | ronny | hi |
| 20:33 | whats a good way to add new patches to a repo without touching the workdir beforehand | |
| 20:34 | mornfall | What kind of patch do you have in mind? |
| 20:35 | ronny | im not exactly sure what kind of patch i would need |
| 20:35 | im making an api to create "commits" for different vcs's without touching the workdir | |
| 20:36 | mornfall | Dunno. You can create a synthetic patch bundle and darcs apply it. |
| 20:37 | But that will affect workdir in the end anyway. | |
| 20:37 | Hmm. | |
| 20:37 | ronny | affecting it in the end is ok |
| 20:39 | i'll go for figuring how to make those patch bundles later | |
| 20:55 | mornfall | kowey: Do you have a moment? Any advice about http://pastebin.com/m5dd2202e ? |
| 20:56 | It's clearly not complete, but I'm a little lost as to what to add (and maybe what to remove). | |
| 20:57 | kowey | mornfall: I'll braindump comments as I read |
| 20:58 | aye... that's the Darcs attitude: we will have to live with it for a long time, and mistakes now would be expensive later | |
| 20:59 | mornfall | Well, it doesn't apply equally to all things. But repoformats, that's the bane of all the VCSes around. |
| 20:59 | kowey | i'd clarify the "bunch of work that needs to be done" |
| 21:00 | also be clearer about what people reading this (final) report can do to help, for example: try darcs-benchmark | |
| 21:01 | maybe a sort of mini-roadmap to summarise things - for example, get hashed-storage to state where we're happy to merge into darcs 2.4 and then work on packs | |
| 21:01 | mornfall | I'm not very clear on the roadmap myself. |
| 21:01 | kowey | I'd also tack on one last paragraph for the future work with a broader perspective, not just what you feel you need to work on, but what others could build off your work |
| 21:02 | (sorry that's just me trying to apply researcher propaganda that they've been dumping on us students outside the academic field) | |
| 21:03 | maybe in the beginning it would be useful to try putting yourself in the perspective of Darcs user, hasn't really been following this work, just excitedly knows it's supposed to make darcs faster | |
| 21:04 | so concretely: what's going to happen? OK whatsnew on hashed repos is now fast; when we manage to merge in the darcs-hs stuff, similar improvements; in the future as you complete the work on packs, fetching repos and pulling patches will go faster because we're no longer trying to fetch a ton of tiny files | |
| 21:05 | (I'm not saying that you can implement all of these ideas for the write-up, but I'm hoping you can cherry-pick the thoughts that you think will have the most impact) | |
| 21:05 | mornfall | Hm. What is the deadline on this, anyway? I know, yesterday was already late, but... |
| 21:06 | To make some positive impact, I need to believe that things are positive, and it doesn't seem to be working right now. | |
| 21:07 | kowey | well, it's not about sales here, just about knowing which perspective to tell things from |
| 21:07 | mornfall | I have to force myself into writing a little optimistically, and it tends to show. |
| 21:07 | kowey | never force it |
| 21:07 | it's not so much a question of tone, but of audience | |
| 21:07 | when talking to audience X, emphasise Y | |
| 21:08 | see what I'm saying? it's really just a specialisation of "increase signal to noise ratio" | |
| 21:11 | "(that's for another goal)." I think you may be able to cut | |
| 21:12 | mornfall | I don't even know what is the audience, I guess. |
| 21:12 | It felt that I should justify what I have done, for some reason. | |
| 21:12 | But it may not be the right place to do that. | |
| 21:12 | kowey | right, focus hard on how to make what you write as useful as possible to the person that's reading it |
| 21:13 | one example is this... whenever I go to talks, and I ask a question | |
| 21:13 | I always feel so stupid that I can't stop myself from saying crap like "oh, this may be a stupid question, but..." | |
| 21:13 | and I should NOT do that, because that crap is just a manifestation of my own insecurity | |
| 21:14 | and for the people listening to my question, and the speaker who took the trouble to deliver his talk, that's just a bunch of random noise | |
| 21:14 | mornfall | Hm. : - ) Yes, it seems that I feel guilty for not doing enough on the project. |
| 21:14 | kowey | so you want to be merciless about going through the document and cutting out everything that's going to be noise |
| 21:14 | sm | +1 for know your audience and give them the clear essentials they are interested in. I love writers who do that |
| 21:15 | * kowey | is only talking in theory :-) |
| 21:15 | * sm | aspires to do it |
| 21:16 | kowey | mornfall: I think maybe another day to work on it should be good |
| 21:17 | I hope there's stuff you can use in this dump | |
| 21:17 | mornfall | kowey: Oh, darcs-benchmark. What is the status of maybench? It comes with an identically-named binary, and I haven't checked what it does yet. |
| 21:17 | kowey | forget about maybench basically |
| 21:17 | I may work on it in September for some not-darcs stuff | |
| 21:18 | darcs-benchmark in maybench tries to generate repos of size n, n+1... etc and then do performance stuff on them, if I recall correctly | |
| 21:18 | so it's something to do think about for the future of darcs-benchmark darcs-benchmark ;-) | |
| 21:18 | mornfall | Interesting. Is that something that maybench in general does? |
| 21:18 | kowey | right now, not really |
| 21:18 | there's tiny bits and pieces of library for darcs-benchmark | |
| 21:19 | the idea is that in the future, it would make it easier for me, say, to benchmark GenI (some other software I work on) | |
| 21:19 | mornfall | Ok. I'll just skim over it. Would it make sense to upload a maybench version that renames the executable, so the packages don't overwrite each other? |
| 21:19 | kowey | and for other people to do timing tests on their software, but I don't really know how to design this stuff |
| 21:19 | that's a good thought... I can get on that | |
| 21:20 | mornfall | I do a lot of benchmarking for research -- but we also have a lot of dedicated hardware to do it. |
| 21:21 | kowey | there seems to be a lot of common infrastructure which could be useful |
| 21:21 | mornfall | And these benchmarks easily take a week to complete. |
| 21:21 | kowey | one thing we do, for example is benchmark and generate a latex report with graphs and stuff |
| 21:21 | and stuff like "run this thing on this batch of inputs; collect the outputs, etc" | |
| 21:22 | mornfall | Yes. The reporting code in darcs-benchmark is virtually non-existent. And persistent storage for the measured data. |
| 21:22 | kowey | I guess there's no way to get around a custom harness, but if we could minimise the duplication, it'd be good |
| 21:22 | maybench, incidentally, runs on a commit-bit-for-all model, unless I misremember | |
| 21:23 | mornfall | The approach I take with our research model checker is that the tool itself reports timing and memory use data in a common format (just a name: value list) and I store output of each run in a file. |
| 21:23 | Then I have reports that extract various bits of that data. | |
| 21:23 | It *may* work for darcs, if we add enough reporting to it. | |
| 21:23 | darcs foo --performance-report | |
| 21:24 | wall-time: 2.3s | |
| 21:24 | user-time: 2.2s | |
| 21:24 | memory-used: 12M | |
| 21:24 | etc. | |
| 21:26 | I'm wondering if we can extract GC data from the runtime somehow. | |
| 21:27 | kowey | you mean by parsing +RTS -sstderr output? |
| 21:30 | mornfall | No, I meant having darcs itself, by some sort of introspection, extract this data from the GC, and report it itself. |
| 21:33 | We already chop +RTS -sfoo output with regexps, but I'm not very happy about that. | |
| 21:38 | kowey | i've pushed patches to maybench renaming the executable to darcs-benchmark-maybench |
| 21:40 | and now I'm going to head to bed... good night! | |
| 21:40 | mornfall | Thanks. |
| 21:40 | Yeah, me too. | |
| 21:40 | Goodnight. | |
| 21:58 | copumpkin joined #darcs | |
| 22:40 | darcscommitbot | 11 Aug 14:37 - Remove optimize --checkpoint cruft. (Eric Kow ) |
| 22:40 | 09 Aug 16:30 - Remove tabs from src/Exec.hs (Reinier Lamers ) | |
| 22:46 | ronny | oh fun |
| 22:47 | i hope you guys get darcs to the point where i'll consider switching to it | |
| 22:49 | sm | ronny: what must we do ? |
| 22:51 | ronny | sm: much more speed, some kind of api or protocol to easyly talk to the repo content (preferably from python), something to emulate git/mercurial style branches |
| 22:52 | currently im using hg and tend to have rather branchy histories | |
| 22:52 | i dont like hacks like rebase | |
| 22:52 | (ie evil things git invents cause its just a stupid dag of snapshoots at its heart) | |
| 22:54 | basically as soon as i can write a anyvc backend for darcs and it will be speedy im allmost happy | |
| 22:54 | sm | max battcher has a python api for darcs repos |
| 22:54 | just fyi | |
| 22:55 | ronny | you mean that thing for darcsweb? |
| 22:55 | sm | no |
| 22:55 | ronny | oh, ok |
| 22:55 | got an url for me? | |
| 22:55 | sm | but maybe yes. His project is darcsforge I believe |
| 22:57 | ronny | well, lets take a look if it has anything reasonable |
| 22:59 | sm: btw, any reason why the controll dir is _darcs instead of .darcs? | |
| 22:59 | sm | ronny: yes, windows compatibility |
| 22:59 | a pity, isn't it | |
| 23:00 | ronny | hg doesnt do that, works fine |
| 23:00 | so why? | |
| 23:02 | hmm, ok, the darcsforge code for interfacing darcs isnt really nice :( | |
| 23:02 | sm | perhaps not on older windows versions |
| 23:03 | ronny | sm: hmm, maybe win9x is fail |
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