Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #darcs, 2009-08-16

| Channels | #darcs index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:01 darcscommitbot joined #darcs
02:08 shachaf joined #darcs
02:43 copumpkin joined #darcs
03:58 idnar joined #darcs
04:09 blackdog joined #darcs
04:09 blackdog how do you show a particular patch in a darcs repo?
04:16 blackdog left #darcs
06:13 gour joined #darcs
06:35 gour morning
06:41 gour CosmicRay recently did http://changelog.complete.org/archive​s/1123-free-software-project-hosting review. now i'm interested what would you suggest for someone working with darcs? (while tinkering with bzr in the past, i created some setup at launchpad and now i could use vmikllos's darcs-fast-export(import) with bzr to provide public repos there, but i'm interested if you have some other recommendation? (i know about patch-tag, but not
06:41 gour sure whether it has some features besides holding a repo...)
07:01 darcscommitbot joined #darcs
07:22 lelit joined #darcs
08:08 kowey joined #darcs
08:09 kowey good morning!
08:09 kowey http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/9azs​g/fast_darcs_google_summer_of_code_final_report/
08:15 mornfall Yeah, more of usual uninformed slander.
08:20 kowey it's really impressive how long it takes to dislodge old ideas
08:21 kowey don't forget to send that final update to the mailing list, by the way
08:26 twb kowey: though we have commit bits, I think you should still try to assign specific people to review bundles.
08:26 twb kowey: otherwise there is a bystander effect
08:28 twb As for "<smarter technology> is slower", you could take Fortran as a case study to work out when the meme will die.  I don't think too many people consider it slow anymore :-)
08:31 mornfall twb: That's because many people don't know what fortran is anymore. Other than "something from the prehistory of computing".
08:32 kowey twb: yeah, I was worrying about that
08:33 kowey twb: I was hoping that somebody would Take Charge so that I could go take care of the bugtracker for a while
08:35 mornfall I am not convinced it makes any sense to take charge.
08:36 mornfall Fix stuff, announce releases with the fixes.
08:36 mornfall Talk is cheap and therefore a waste of time.
08:36 mornfall At least as talking about darcs performance and bugs goes.
08:38 * kowey was referring to the pile of patches awaiting review
08:41 * Heffalump would like to discuss some of the outstanding review stuff with mornfall on IRC, but is having a rather disjointed weekend due to decorating
08:42 kowey by the way, it may be a good idea to break up that review on the wiki with headers
08:42 kowey I pushed the patches, but never bothered to reply
08:42 Heffalump headers in what sense?
08:43 Heffalump it has topic headers
08:43 kowey ------------------------------
08:43 kowey oh
08:43 Heffalump oh, right
08:43 kowey depends on what you two find most readable
08:43 Heffalump I was thinking of indenting it more, but then people reading without a large resolution monitor will find it a bit unpleasant
08:43 Heffalump anyway, content over form :-)
08:44 kowey :-)
09:01 mornfall Well, I'm leaving internet in a few hours and can't guarantee onlineness till end of August. Maybe a few evenings.
09:02 Heffalump I'm around now for a bit
09:03 Heffalump mainly wanted to discuss the hash stuff a bit more
09:03 mornfall Ok.
09:03 mornfall Fire, I have a while now.
09:04 Heffalump I added a few more comments on the review page - in particular I still find fact that it's valid to have both SHA1 and SHA256 hashes in the same tree disconcerting
09:04 mornfall kowey: Ah. Patches -- well, I reviewed and pushed some. I am trying not to do all of them, lest people forget they should do that as well.
09:04 mornfall Heffalump: Can't do much about it, since existing darcs repos mix them.
09:04 kowey speak up... not all talk is hot air
09:05 kowey meanwhile, I've sent a mail to lispy seeing if I can recruit him as PM :-)
09:05 Heffalump mornfall: ah. How do they do that?
09:05 mornfall Heffalump: Well, there's at least one special case, that empty files always get a SHA1 and never a SHA256.
09:05 Heffalump is that deliberate, or a cock-up?
09:06 mornfall I'd guess it's a bug.
09:06 mornfall Actually, it only seems to happen for empty repos? Wait a minute.
09:06 Heffalump also, is dropping the size really a good idea? I had the impression that hash+size was generally considered significantly stronger than just hash
09:06 mornfall Well, doing a darcs init leaves you with a repo with a SHA1 pristine.
09:08 mornfall Adding anythinAdding anything into that repo seems to fix the SHA1, so it's only for empty repos really.
09:08 Heffalump joy
09:09 mornfall But basically, darcs is built in a way that it accepts 3 hash formats in pristine, and there were darcs versions that produced, I think, all of the 3.
09:09 Heffalump ok, so as far as darcs is concerned the current Hash type is right, apart from the slight question over whether the DarcsSHA256 format is worthwhile or not
09:10 mornfall I have already removed DarcsSHA256 in HEAD, and I think that's a worthwhile simplification of matters.
09:10 mornfall I think sha256 is strong enough as far as I care.
09:11 mornfall Also, it does not impose a hard limit on filesizes we can handle...
09:11 Heffalump ok, that's a good point :-)
09:11 Heffalump not that darcs will handle 10GB files very well anyway
09:12 mornfall Sure, but it's a little close to the practical limit to be comfortable...
09:12 Heffalump ok, so another question: if and when darcs wants to upgrade hashes, how does it do it?
09:12 mornfall It doesn't, I believe. It just writes out new bits with new hashes.
09:13 mornfall IIRC to get rid of intermediate hash formats, you had to re-convert from old-fashioned.
09:13 Heffalump yes, I realise that, but how does it do it given the fact that the hash decisions are all in hashed-storage now?
09:13 mornfall Like the no-sizes hashed format.
09:13 mornfall Oh.
09:13 Heffalump I'm mainly still arguing for hashed-storage to overload over the particular hash format
09:13 mornfall Well, I added optimize --pristine in darcs-hs that just builds a new pristine with whatever hash format hashed-storage currently uses.
09:14 Heffalump I think it would have to store Maybe h in the trees to stop it getting really ugly with whether or not hashes were guaranteed present.
09:14 Heffalump But it shouldn't really care about what the actual hash being used is. Then Darcs could have its really ugly union of different hash types, and other clients could just have SHA256 or whatever.
09:15 mornfall I don't think it's worth it -- it's a lot of trouble and lots of code would get uglier, for a relatively questionable benefit.
09:15 Heffalump optimize --pristine sounds good
09:15 Heffalump what makes it a lot of trouble?
09:15 * Heffalump did have a quick go and most of the difficulty seemed to be with presence/absence
09:16 mornfall Yeah, the Maybe wrapping is something I was really glad to get rid of...
09:16 mornfall And adding another type parameter to Tree... dunno.
09:16 mornfall hashed-storage will never create anything but SHA256 -- the others, for simplicity, are there so it can read, out of the box, legacy hashed trees.
09:16 Heffalump well, you already have Maybe wrapping, it's just hidden in the NoHash type
09:17 Heffalump well, I guess the other functionality of hashed-storage isn't really the business of my review, but why shouldn't it create things other than SHA256?
09:17 mornfall Well, why should it?
09:17 twb Heffalump: maybe they're too cryptographically weak?
09:17 Heffalump well, a quick google suggests that git uses SHA1
09:17 twb (Guessing.)
09:18 mornfall Heffalump: Well, yes, but SHA1 is insecure. If we need to *write* git-compatible repos, then we'll have to sha1 things, sure.
09:18 Heffalump also, the world might move on and decide that SHA512 is a better choice, and then clients of hashed-storage should surely be able to make their own decisions about whether to upgrade.
09:19 mornfall But that's a long way ahead. As things are, hashed-storage only needs to create one hash type (we can upgrade to SHA512 later -- in which case, the ability to read SHA256 stuff buys us automatic backward compatibility...)
09:21 mornfall There aren't many places where we actually compute new hashes -- these could be parametrized, separately of the Hash type, with what they should create.
09:21 mornfall I still think that we should read whatever comes. It's just a lot more flexible, and the API is easier.
09:21 Heffalump what if you wind up with hashes that you can't distinguish dynamically?
09:21 mornfall Well, then you are in a mess you don't want to be in. :)
09:22 Heffalump I mean what happens if some client wants a new hash type that can't be distinguished dynamically from the existing set in Hash?
09:22 Heffalump if they could specify that one of the existing set couldn't possibly happen then they'd be fine
09:22 mornfall I guess I don't want to cater for that use-case. It's not reasonable to cover all needs of all people anyway.
09:23 mornfall It doesn't really make any sense, does it?
09:24 Heffalump IMO hardcoding a particular hash type is what doesn't make any sense. The properties a hash type requires are quite small and well-delimited.
09:25 mornfall You can say that about a directory listing. Or file path.
09:25 Heffalump it's not just about extensibility or future flexibility, but also about clearly defining what needs to change for a new hash type
09:26 tux_rocker joined #darcs
09:27 * Heffalump suspects this isn't getting anywhere.
09:28 Heffalump The other issue was splitting all the darcs-specific stuff out of hashed-storage.
09:28 mornfall Well, my experience is, that overgeneralization is more dangerous that overspecialization, in library design.
09:29 mornfall I myself don't have (and don't expect to have) any use for hash overloading. I mean something actually useful. Conceptual purity is great, but it's not an end of itself.
09:30 mornfall Well, darcs-specific. What constitutes darcs-specific in this case?
09:30 mornfall There's reading and writing of "darcs pristine".
09:30 twb mornfall: so your argument is "when a client app asks for it, I'll add it"?
09:30 mornfall twb: My argument is when a client app makes a reasonable argument for needing that, we can think about adding it. :)
09:31 Heffalump mornfall: that sounds pretty darcs specific :-)
09:32 Heffalump anything that naturally has darcs in its name would be a good discriminator.
09:32 mornfall Heffalump: Second, there's the darcs directory listing format (that sucks, but we need to be able to read it).
09:32 mornfall Heffalump: I don't think we can get rid of all of it. Reading pristine may be a good candidate, but that would mean a separate hackage lib for 3 functions, which I'm not very fond of.
09:33 mornfall Either that, or not having a library interface to read it.
09:33 mornfall (Or yet different, putting it in libdarcs and hoping that it will become manageable in the future, so we can actually tell people to use it.)
09:35 mornfall Most darcs-specific things are these: http://repos.mornfall.net/hashed​-storage/Storage/Hashed/Darcs.hs -- plus some bits in Storage/hashed.hs.
09:36 mornfall However, I can't remove any of that without making hashed-storage unable to read the hashed format darcs uses.
09:36 Heffalump the issue with the darcs directory listing format is that the directory hashes need to know it to be computed?
09:37 mornfall That, and you also need to write the trees sometimes.
09:37 mornfall And to write the tree, you naturally need to write the directory listings.
09:37 Heffalump are directory listings themselves written out as text then?
09:37 mornfall Yes.
09:37 mornfall (How else they would?)
09:37 Heffalump yeah, good point
09:38 mornfall So basically, what needs to be done is move a few bits from Storage/Hashed.hs into Storage/Hashed/Darcs.hs and then decide what we want to keep and what we don't, out of those.
09:39 * Heffalump is still convinced that it's not appropriate to have anything darcs-specific in hashed-storage.
09:39 mornfall Reading and writing darcs hashed trees is fairly essential (I think). Reading the pristine root pointer from _darcs/hashed_inventory and knowing that darcs pristine lives in _darcs/pristine.hashed is removable.
09:40 mornfall Well, maybe, but then hashed-storage becomes useless alone, and you will always need libdarcs to use it.
09:40 mornfall Or you have to implement an alternative incompatible format for no reason.
09:40 Heffalump what about this tar file application you mentioned?
09:40 mornfall It uses the darcs-style hashed format (there isn't any other implemented in hashed-storage)...
09:41 Heffalump then why not call hashed-storage darcs-storage?
09:41 mornfall Because I want it to handle more than just that?
09:41 mornfall For one, the existing darcs format is not very good, but it will take time to implement a better one.
09:41 mornfall Second, there's the packed storage stuff that I'm working on, that doesn't really have any darcs counterpart so far.
09:42 twb Because it's hard to change a package name in Hackage, and mornfall expects it to generalize one day -- just not yet ;-)
09:43 mornfall Well, it already does indexing that is not darcs-specific.
09:43 mornfall It's not like all of the lib was specific to darcs. But the only hashed storage format it currently supports is the one darcs uses.
09:44 mornfall (It also supports plain directories and plain directories with hashed index...)
09:50 Heffalump how are other people supposed to maintain it if half the functionality lives inside hashed-storage?
09:51 mornfall Maintain what?
09:51 Heffalump anything to do with the darcs repo format
09:52 mornfall Presumably by patching hashed-storage. This is open source, the library is not a black box...
09:53 Heffalump but then they have to worry about breaking other clients of hashed-storage
09:53 mornfall No difference from having it in libdarcs, is there?
09:53 mornfall Unless we don't really mean what we say when we talk about libdarcs.
09:54 Heffalump we explicitly advertise that we don't care about the libdarcs API yet.
09:54 mornfall Do we plan on starting?
09:54 Heffalump no idea. Is that what you're saying hashed-storage is?
09:55 mornfall I am just saying that if we want to make a public API and actually support it, it doesn't make a difference if it's in darcs tree or not.
09:55 mornfall As far as the API support is concerned.
09:56 mornfall It makes difference to change directories and to issue extra commands to build things.
09:56 mornfall But not as far as breaking things for other people goes.
09:56 Heffalump sure
09:56 Heffalump but it's not obvious that we do yet want to make a public API
09:56 Heffalump and the different trees are a substantial issue in their own right
09:58 mornfall Yes. It's up to the rest of darcs hackers to decide if they agree or not. Not my call. I propose a way to go. I have a backup if people think we both don't want to expose an API and we don't want to change things out of darcs tree.
09:59 Heffalump what's the backup, pull hashed-storage into the darcs tree?
10:00 mornfall Well, more like building a bottom-up darcs by the side, whether actual darcs cares or not.
10:02 Heffalump I don't quite understand what that means
10:02 mornfall That means that I continue to work on hashed-storage, and I dismantle darcs-hs instead of integrating it into darcs.
10:03 Heffalump but you can't reimplement all of darcs in hashed-storage
10:03 mornfall No, I don't intend to.
10:03 Heffalump so I don't really see what the end-state of that route is
10:03 mornfall A few more libraries in hashed-storage spirit, I guess.
10:04 Igloo I think if there's anything darcs-specific in hashed-storage then it ought to be in the darcs repo, as it's not truly a separate library
10:04 Igloo And should probably have darcs in its name
10:04 mornfall We are back to the original problem of what darcs-specific means.
10:05 Heffalump well, you already said the directory listing style wasn't very good
10:05 * Igloo can't define it,but I know it when I see it  :-)
10:06 mornfall Heffalump: Sure. But I still need to support reading it -- there's tons of trees with that directory listing format.
10:07 Heffalump but that behaviour properly belongs in darcs, not in hashed-storage
10:07 mornfall True. So when I implement reading git hashed trees, will you say that functionality properly belongs in git?
10:08 Igloo If that needes to be in hashed-storage, then all users of hashed storage would need something equivalent in the library, and that doesn't make sense for a general hashed-storage library
10:08 Heffalump in a git-specific haskell library, yes
10:08 mornfall So hashed-storage-git and hashed-storage-darcs?
10:10 mornfall Both the formats are an open spec. I don't see why a library should not implement them.
10:10 mornfall It's not like you could change them incompatibly without breaking old darcs anyway.
10:11 Heffalump well, hashed-storage-darcs could live in the darcs tree then
10:15 mornfall Well, let's say this differently. I don't really care about what darcs does. I will keep the darcs read/write code in hashed-storage, since there's a number of reasons to do it (testability of hashed-storage standalone, among other things). If you decide to merge darcs-hs, I will work on it further, if no, well, I will find other ways to entertain myself.
10:15 mornfall I have use for hashed-storage as it is, regardless of darcs, really.
10:28 tux_rocker what if we define darcs-specific code as code that one can't imagine being used by any application but darcs?
10:29 Heffalump well, apparently other people are willing to use the same directory hashing format for their application (whether unknowingly or not)
10:30 mornfall Of course they are. At least they don't invent a new one out of thin airr.
10:31 tux_rocker i wouldn't consider our directory hashing format "darcs-specific" in itself
10:32 tux_rocker assuming that it lives somewhere in a _darcs directory *is* darcs-specific
10:32 tux_rocker and while i haven't seen the code, wouldn't it be simple to parameterise it with the file name of the index and the root?
10:33 Heffalump I think that's what mornfall proposed above.
10:34 tux_rocker then i agree with mornfall :-)
10:37 Heffalump ok. I'll try to write up the outstanding points of significant importance in an email.
10:38 Heffalump (might make sense to wait until mornfall is available online to actually start the discussion on darcs-users, though)
10:54 mornfall tux_rocker: The code is parametric in that respect.
10:55 mornfall Apart from hashed tree format, there's only very little with any knowledge about _darcs, and these can be easily removed (although I don't see a reason to have them removed).
10:57 mornfall Anyway, I'm off now. See you in two weeks.
11:05 gour left #darcs
11:12 arjanb joined #darcs
11:51 gbeshers_ joined #darcs
11:51 mae joined #darcs
11:57 balor joined #darcs
12:07 kowey joined #darcs
12:07 kowey not more downtime!
12:12 kowey sigh, support request filed
12:16 balor joined #darcs
13:01 darcscommitbot joined #darcs
13:21 dleverton Are the unit tests supposed to work from the hackage tarball?
13:23 kowey yes as far as I know
13:24 kowey unfortunately darcs.net is down at the the moment, so we can't consult the bugtracker
13:24 dleverton Says it can't find Darcs.Patch.Unit
13:24 kowey whoops, did we forget to ship something?
13:24 kowey the functional tests work for you, right? (all those shell scripts)
13:25 dleverton Not tried those yet
13:26 kowey I see that the library does not expose Darcs.Patch.Unit as a module
13:27 kowey I wonder if that's just a minor cabal sdist hiccup then (as the unit tests are still disabled by default, if I recall correctly)
13:27 kowey thanks very much for reporting this!
13:27 dcoutts someone needs to implement "cabal distcheck"
13:27 dcoutts like automake's make distcheck
13:28 dcoutts which makes the tarball, builds from the tarball and checks it works and can reconstruct the same source tarball.
13:29 dleverton Should the shell script tests be run by Setup test?
13:29 kowey yeah, cabal test runs those
13:30 * kowey goes for his weekend outing into town
13:30 dleverton OK, cool
13:30 dleverton I was slightly worried I'd have to figure out how to do it manually....
13:37 dleverton Shell scripts all pass
13:50 kpreid_ joined #darcs
14:05 gwern dcoutts: hey, let's get a cabal builddist first!
14:06 dcoutts gwern: meaning?
14:06 gwern it's a bug I filed ages ago - to have cabal build not out of current dir but the unpacked sdist tarball
14:06 dcoutts ah right yes
14:07 dcoutts it's not essential for this task, but it's a nice feature to have in general
14:07 * gwern thinks it's a more important task than testing from sdist
14:11 dcoutts gwern: so what are the important use cases for it?
14:11 gwern everyone. testing before uploading to hackage
14:12 gwern how many times have I seen people upload incomplete tarballs... (people including myself)
14:12 dcoutts right but that's testing the sdist
14:12 twb Pfft.
14:12 gwern it'd also make a good post-record hook; even experienced people like ndm forget to record files or put them in the .cabal
14:12 twb Hackage should do the build testing
14:12 dcoutts I thought you were talking about being able to build from a different directory
14:12 gwern twb: it does. later. assuming hackage could ever build it
14:13 dcoutts gwern: like cabal build ../some/other/project
14:13 gwern twb: eg. someone using anything using anything...gtk2hs is SOL with hackage's buildreports; why would they even look at the buildreport when they *know* it's going to fail?
14:13 dcoutts current hackage design is broken in that respect, that there's only one build machine
14:35 zooko joined #darcs
14:57 gour joined #darcs
15:10 twb 2.3 in debian incoming, yay
15:10 * tux_rocker tries if the unit test work from the current mainline
15:10 twb took two weeks to get the new build-deps through new :-(
15:10 tux_rocker twb: congrats!
15:11 sm joined #darcs
15:12 twb AND I washed my hair
15:12 twb So today is like the highlight of my year
15:20 tux_rocker my hair looked so positively weird when i came out of bed, i left it that way
15:20 kowey joined #darcs
15:21 kowey darcs.net back up again
15:22 kowey how puzzling... I thought I'd told samhain to update its database, but there it goes freaking out on me again
15:23 lelit http://progetti.arstecnica​.it/tailor/wiki#Thefuture
15:23 twb kowey: why use it if it causes so much grief? ;-)
15:23 Heffalump hiya
15:23 kowey well I inherited it and I'm assuming it's good practice
15:23 kowey and I believe that in time I can learn how to make it less false-alarmy
15:24 twb Dunno; I only see nagios and munin in the wild
15:24 Heffalump I think automatic warning stuff is more hassle than its worth unless you're really sure of yourself
15:25 twb Oh it's intrusion detection, not health monitoring
15:26 twb I thought it was more a "send me an email when darcs.net stops responding to icmp/http/whatever"
15:27 twb kowey: I dunno whether I'd bother using samhain if it was being a whiny bitch all the time
15:29 kowey perhaps... I've just been operating under the assumption that I've been Doing it Wrong or something
15:29 twb Quite possibly
15:34 tux_rocker dleverton: were you running the unit tests from the autoconf? that may be broken
15:35 tux_rocker dleverton: they work from cabal ('cabal configure -ftest && cabal build && dist/build/unit/unit')
15:38 dleverton tux_rocker: there's a module missing from the tarball on hackage, because it's not listed in the cabal file
15:39 tux_rocker dleverton: ah, that could be. but there's no Darcs.Patch.Unit anymore, I think it's Darcs.Test.Patch.Unit now
15:39 * kowey confirms that he saw D.P.U in 2.3.0 and D.T.P.U in darcs darcs
15:40 nomeata joined #darcs
15:47 alesb joined #darcs
15:51 gour joined #darcs
16:00 fophillips joined #darcs
16:18 fophillipse joined #darcs
16:25 fophillipse joined #darcs
16:35 kolmodin joined #darcs
17:24 kowey gwern: ping
17:25 kowey hmm, no DarcsWiki/gitit.log?
18:17 gour left #darcs
18:20 balor joined #darcs
18:58 waern_ joined #darcs
19:01 darcscommitbot joined #darcs
19:25 amuck joined #darcs
20:20 gwern kowey: I dunno. the existing one when I logged in just now seems to be post-reboot
20:21 kowey hmm
20:21 kowey so possible culprits in my mind are: gitit + google/msn spiders and recent roundup activity
20:21 kowey any other suggestions for what might be going on?
20:21 gwern on the other hand, I'm not actually sure how to interpret '16/Aug/2009:17:26:43 +000'
20:21 gwern this UTC?
20:22 gwern but it's 16:22 here, so subtract the 3 hours or whatever for my EST, puts it back at 1300, but you sent the email yesterday or at least more like 0200
20:24 kowey it was early afternoon my time when I sent you that email
20:24 kowey you mean the one to support@osu, right?
20:24 gwern yes
20:25 kowey I sent that at 13:00+0100 which would translate to 08:00-0400 for your Eastern Daylight Time, I think
20:26 gwern ok, let's run ab on this sucker and see whether page views drive up RAM
20:26 kowey ab?
20:26 gwern dah, ab won't take multiple URLs?
20:26 kowey ah http://httpd.apache.org/docs/2.0/programs/ab.html
20:27 kowey err... GET /_expire/TheCommands
20:28 kowey grep _expire DarcsWiki/gitit.log | wc -l
20:28 kowey 13
20:28 zooko left #darcs
20:28 gwern ?
20:28 darcscommitbot joined #darcs
20:28 gwern our posthook firing?
20:28 kowey why doesn't http://wiki.darcs.net/robots.txt tell googlebot et al. "please don't expire my cached pages"?
20:29 kowey try it out
20:29 gwern we have a robots.txt?
20:29 kowey the grep thingy
20:29 kowey we don't
20:29 kowey but shouldn't gitit support something like that?
20:29 kowey right now it points to an empty wiki page
20:30 kowey (I had similar pain years ago when I created a trac+darcs instance... learned really quick the value of a robots.txt file)
20:31 gwern bwa ha ha... wiki.darcs.net, experience the full power of this armed and operation score of abs
20:31 gwern *operational
20:32 gwern ('no! darcsaraan is a peaceful wiki!' 'but microsoft.com would not serve as a convincing demonstration to the outlying sites')
20:32 kowey I do believe that GoogleBot visiting our _expire pages is a definite problem
20:32 Heffalump kowey: how much disk does the darcs.net VM have?
20:32 Heffalump and how much is currently in use?
20:32 gwern why are there 4 apaches anyway?
20:32 kowey 14G of which 8 are now in use
20:33 kowey gwern: 4 apaches?
20:34 gwern top has 4 apaches running
20:34 Heffalump hmm, do you have some idea what the 8 are for? (would making me an account so I can poke around for myself be feasible, or are they kept fairly limited? I'm just investigating the feasibility of offering darcs another VM as I mentioned a while back)
20:35 idnar is that not just apache forking worker processes?
20:35 kowey Heffalump: I'm afraid I don't... is there an easy way to get a rough breakdown?
20:35 kowey du perhaps?
20:35 Heffalump yes, du
20:35 Heffalump I generally do 'du -s *' in the root, and then follow the interesting bits further
20:35 Heffalump don't worry about it if you're busy now
20:35 kowey I used to use this Perl script called dutree
20:36 gwern idnar: dunno… I always thought apache was supposed to be highperformance and would use threads
20:36 kowey wow, my fingers are conditioned to type "tmp" every time I type "cd /"
20:36 * gwern wonders how on earth I just did that unicode ellipse
20:37 Heffalump gwern: doesn't look like unicode to me
20:37 idnar gwern: the default mpm is still the worker model, but there is a threaded mpm
20:37 Heffalump gwern: apache2 does have a threaded version
20:37 idnar "high performance...threads" amuses me, though ;P
20:38 gwern hm. whatever the gitit problem is, it's not reads. my abs have been hammering on a dozen different pages and gitit's still at 6.9
20:38 kowey ok, so the breakdown is 3.0G in /home, 1.6G in /usr and 2.5G in /var
20:39 gwern let's toss in an allpages, a random, and a recent changes
20:39 kowey going further... David's directory accounts for 1.6 of those G (he also has a copy of the old darcs.net in there somewhere)
20:39 Heffalump the /var stuff is probably logfiles
20:39 Heffalump I bet most of it is in /var/log/apache or /var/log/apache2
20:39 kowey (one of these days, it may be good to resurrect the old RT tracker as read-only)
20:40 kowey 561M for /var/log/apache
20:41 kowey gwern: I'm in #osuosl warning them that we're running ab on gitit
20:43 gwern joined #darcs
20:48 waern_ joined #darcs
20:50 gwern ah, I've managed to put it up to 7.5%
20:50 gwern but maybe someone was editing...
21:12 gwern dozens of abs later, I've managed to push it to 9.1%
21:12 gwern yeesh
21:44 darcscommitbot joined #darcs
23:12 nomeata joined #darcs
23:56 waernZzz joined #darcs

| Channels | #darcs index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary