| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:05 |
|
twb |
They're probably using doxygen |
| 00:05 |
|
twb |
The end goal is for our documentation to end up looking like this: http://sphinx.pocoo.org/contents.html |
| 00:06 |
|
twb |
That implements searching by having js download what is basically a TAGS file built from the html docs |
| 00:06 |
|
twb |
So you get searching using a static http server, which is cute (if annoying for me personally). |
| 00:07 |
|
lispy |
That is a nice looking website. Allowing user comments would be icing on that cake. |
| 00:07 |
|
twb |
These documents (but probably not the front page) are also built using rst: http://docs.python.org/3.1/ |
| 00:08 |
|
twb |
I also worked out how to auto-generate such a static set of HTML from our existing gitit wiki |
| 00:09 |
|
twb |
http://pastebin.com/f63a80e10 are the relevant files from my test instance. |
| 00:12 |
|
twb |
mornfall: ping. |
| 00:19 |
|
mornfall |
yes? |
| 00:19 |
|
mornfall |
(But I'm about to sleep.) |
| 00:22 |
|
twb |
mornfall: sorry, I put it in email |
| 00:22 |
|
twb |
mornfall: summary: siva doesn't like cabal 1.8 |
| 01:10 |
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| 09:36 |
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| 10:23 |
|
kowey |
are we linking to darcs.net/releases from anywhere? |
| 10:28 |
|
kowey |
perhaps I should figure out how to enable directory listing on that |
| 10:28 |
|
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| 11:30 |
|
kowey |
hmm, beta2 doesn't seem to do much better than beta1 on the check/repair stuff (from lispy's) benchmarks |
| 11:31 |
|
kowey |
(which is OK, imho) |
| 11:32 |
|
mornfall |
I wish lispy could format his emails a little more readably. The wrapped tables are useless as far as I am concerned. |
| 11:32 |
|
kowey |
yeah |
| 11:33 |
|
* kowey |
suspects he's copy+pasting into gmail |
| 11:33 |
|
kowey |
the zip file helps, though |
| 11:33 |
|
kowey |
@tell lispy btw, my favourite trick on macosx is to pbcopy < file and then paste from the Mac clipboard |
| 11:33 |
|
lambdabot |
Consider it noted. |
| 11:33 |
|
mornfall |
Ah, ok. |
| 11:34 |
|
kowey |
on my agenda when I have time is to write an RST-style renderer for darcs-benchmark (no need for it to be in tabular) |
| 11:34 |
|
kowey |
and also to tweak --dump to output JSON so that Max et al can do fun things with Python |
| 11:34 |
|
mornfall |
Eh. |
| 11:35 |
|
kowey |
not a good use of effort? |
| 11:35 |
|
kowey |
I guess the JSON effort is slightly wasted because we'd ideally just be able to do everything from darcs-benchmark |
| 11:36 |
|
mornfall |
Well, it will just make it hard to process the data in Haskell. |
| 11:36 |
|
mornfall |
If we store it in JSON. |
| 11:36 |
|
kowey |
and text-formatted stuff is simplest because it allows for simple copy+pasting |
| 11:36 |
|
kowey |
oh, well you just implement a class to read |
| 11:36 |
|
kowey |
what makes it not so painful is there there are already lots of instances for basic data |
| 11:37 |
|
mornfall |
As opposed to deriving? |
| 11:37 |
|
kowey |
hmm? |
| 11:37 |
|
kowey |
oh, you're saying that Read just makes life easier because it's auto-derived? |
| 11:37 |
|
mornfall |
I don't really see the benefit, unless someone has concrete plans to implement a presentation of the benchmarks in non-Haskell. |
| 11:38 |
|
kowey |
yeah |
| 11:38 |
|
kowey |
and also the text-is-simplest argument makes that less attractive |
| 11:38 |
|
kowey |
I think my goal is to make it easy for people to copy and paste output into the wiki |
| 11:38 |
|
kowey |
so it would have to be indented 4 spaces to look like verbatim text for now |
| 11:38 |
|
mornfall |
Which is not very useful, since we want the presentation to be automated, right? |
| 11:39 |
|
kowey |
well, long term objective is that you want fancy presentation with HTML and bar charts and what not |
| 11:39 |
|
mornfall |
I.e. dump the data into a directory and have something render it properly. |
| 11:39 |
|
kowey |
which is why I figured JSON would be good because we can then outsource that |
| 11:39 |
|
kowey |
but on the short term, I thought a dump textual table would be the fastest route to having things that we can share/look at |
| 11:39 |
|
mornfall |
As long as you believe we *will* outsource it, sure. |
| 11:40 |
|
mornfall |
I may be too sceptical. :) |
| 11:40 |
|
* kowey |
can only cross his fingers |
| 11:40 |
|
kowey |
OK, I'll focus on the ad-hoc renderer for darcs-benchmark so that we are up and running asap on the short term |
| 11:40 |
|
kowey |
and worry about the JSON later |
| 11:40 |
|
mornfall |
You can have a JSON renderer if you like, but I'd prefer the --dump output to be readable by darcs-benchmark. |
| 11:41 |
|
kowey |
oh yeah, that's a 3rd option |
| 11:41 |
|
kowey |
I just meant to implement something that's like Text.Tabular.AsciiArt, but with some minor twists |
| 11:41 |
|
kowey |
OK, well, I'll bang something out and show you what I mean |
| 11:41 |
|
kowey |
err... later... |
| 12:13 |
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| 13:37 |
|
lelit |
kowey: maybe you already know, reST (docutils) has a "csvtable" directive... |
| 13:37 |
|
lelit |
able to load from an external file |
| 13:38 |
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| 13:39 |
|
lelit |
http://docutils.sourceforge.ne[…]rectives.html#id1 |
| 13:43 |
|
kowey |
lelit: looks interesting (we could just turn on the CSV renderer from our tabular library) |
| 13:43 |
|
kowey |
it'd have to be something that works with darcsit/pandoc in the short term, though |
| 13:44 |
|
kowey |
but the external file loading does sound handy, since people could just upload into directories, eg. Benchmarking/Jason |
| 13:45 |
|
kowey |
pandoc is awesome because it converts everything to everything -- only problem is that it can be lowest-common-denominator |
| 13:46 |
|
lelit |
does pandoc implement the directives syntax? |
| 13:48 |
|
kowey |
I don't know, but I doubt it because whatever it parses has to fit into this model: http://github.com/kowey/pandoc[…]doc/Definition.hs |
| 13:48 |
|
kowey |
(nb, I'm not actually a Pandoc hacker; I have a fork because John MacFarlane hasn't gotten around to moving it off SVN yet) |
| 13:52 |
|
lelit |
well, the directives are orthogonal (if I get the term right) to the model: (most of them) they just process their body as they like, and then insert standard elements in the doctree |
| 13:52 |
|
kowey |
oh hmm... |
| 13:52 |
|
lelit |
in the worst case, using a "literal" block, when the directive isn't known |
| 13:53 |
|
lelit |
so, they are just an helper here, a fancy "include" feature |
| 13:53 |
|
* kowey |
skims http://github.com/kowey/pandoc[…]oc/Readers/RST.hs |
| 13:55 |
|
kowey |
It looks like it supports a handful of directives |
| 13:55 |
|
lelit |
yeah |
| 13:55 |
|
kowey |
although I wonder if it's easy to thread through "read an external" file into the parser |
| 13:55 |
|
lelit |
for targets for example |
| 13:56 |
|
kowey |
(in a clean way, that is)... but adding CSVtable support should be quite easy |
| 13:56 |
|
kowey |
(since Pandoc already models tables), and natively supporting RST tables too |
| 13:56 |
|
lelit |
and in the meantime, just "produce" a literal block |
| 13:56 |
|
kowey |
ah right |
| 13:56 |
|
lelit |
ah, I missed that! |
| 13:57 |
|
lelit |
didn't you say that tables are unsupported? |
| 13:57 |
|
kowey |
I think I meant "nobody got around to writing the parser for tables yet" rather |
| 13:57 |
|
lelit |
ah, I see |
| 13:58 |
|
kowey |
but there is a backend to tables that works for Markdown at least http://gitit.johnmacfarlane.net/Help |
| 13:58 |
|
kowey |
so, I think it's another case of patches (very) welcome |
| 13:58 |
|
kowey |
that'd be quite handy for the Darcs wiki, for example |
| 13:59 |
|
lelit |
that would the best way, IMHO: it would be simple enough writing a little python script that extract the data from all the tables in a document, and rewrite that as JSON, if the need arise |
| 14:02 |
|
lelit |
I'm so sorry I'm not up to the task, this picture explains better than any words [of mine] my usual reaction at following Haskell code... 8-) http://kvardek-du.kerno.org/20[…]-views-users.html |
| 14:02 |
|
kowey |
:-) |
| 14:02 |
|
kowey |
I'm a little bit scared of the task myself, but I think that's just a bad habit |
| 14:03 |
|
kowey |
the right attitude is to say "oh, that can't be too hard; just a little parsec, throw in a sepBy here and there, and you're set" |
| 14:03 |
|
lelit |
yeah |
| 14:04 |
|
kowey |
you can see the extended-markdown table parser here: http://github.com/kowey/pandoc[…]aders/Markdown.hs |
| 14:04 |
|
lelit |
the very few patches I contributed to darcs were born exactly like that, indeed |
| 14:07 |
|
kowey |
oh... oh dear! I think I must have gotten confused in skimming the RST documentation |
| 14:07 |
|
lelit |
it does not seem to implement a "read from external file" |
| 14:07 |
|
lelit |
uh? |
| 14:07 |
|
kowey |
and thought that the example output for tables was the actual syntax for writing them |
| 14:07 |
|
kowey |
silly me... |
| 14:08 |
|
kowey |
if you look at http://docutils.sourceforge.ne[…]tives.html#tables you see three syntaxes for tables (of which the CSVtable you mentioned) |
| 14:08 |
|
lelit |
yes |
| 14:08 |
|
kowey |
none of which are like the tables in http://wiki.darcs.net/RosettaStone |
| 14:08 |
|
lelit |
something markdown parser does too |
| 14:09 |
|
kowey |
and I think I got it into my head that RST tables were like that, because I superficially glanced at the RST page and saw some "tables" in pre |
| 14:09 |
|
lelit |
wait |
| 14:09 |
|
lelit |
we are talking about the table *directives* here! |
| 14:09 |
|
lelit |
but reST does parse also inline tables |
| 14:09 |
|
kowey |
is there a native table format? |
| 14:09 |
|
kowey |
like the rosetta stone one? |
| 14:10 |
|
kowey |
oh yes there is |
| 14:10 |
|
lelit |
http://docutils.sourceforge.ne[…]ckref.html#tables |
| 14:10 |
|
lelit |
two of them |
| 14:10 |
|
kowey |
then I wasn't being stupid then, just being stupid now (forgot that I was looking at a directives only page) |
| 14:11 |
|
lelit |
as said, AFAICT the markdown parser you urled above implements two similar kinds of "table descriptions" |
| 14:20 |
|
kowey |
here's the doc for John's extended markdown tables - http://johnmacfarlane.net/pand[…]EADME.html#tables |
| 14:56 |
|
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| 15:28 |
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| 15:52 |
|
lispy |
Hello |
| 15:52 |
|
lambdabot |
lispy: You have 1 new message. '/msg lambdabot @messages' to read it. |
| 15:53 |
|
lispy |
kowey: pbcopy is nice but the relevance is lost on me |
| 16:03 |
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| 16:07 |
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| 16:12 |
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| 16:21 |
|
darcswikibot |
27 Jan 16:19 - EMMS switched to git (Guillaume Hoffmann) |
| 16:33 |
|
gh_ |
http://wiki.darcs.net/ProjectsUsingDarcs needs a serious cleanout |
| 16:34 |
|
gh_ |
a good amount of projects left using darcs, others have dead links, others have links pointing to pornographic websites |
| 16:34 |
|
gh_ |
what about we don't try to list every project of the world using darcs, and keep the most visible? and remove the "Projects that stopped using darcs:" section |
| 16:34 |
|
gh_ |
? |
| 16:43 |
|
kowey |
+1 this isn't 2003 anymore |
| 16:44 |
|
kowey |
hi lispy: I was referring to the tables output... I speculated that the reason for poor formatting was copy+pasting from terminal to gmail |
| 16:44 |
|
kowey |
(perhaps wrongly!) |
| 16:44 |
|
gh_ |
working on it |
| 16:44 |
|
lispy |
kowey: ah. I think email clients do really weird things with line wrapping |
| 16:44 |
|
kowey |
and that maybe pbcopy would avoid the problem of line breaks |
| 16:44 |
|
lispy |
kowey: When in doubt, I send data in a format that is opaque to email clients |
| 16:44 |
|
kowey |
even the list archives have funny wrapping, so I don't think it's on the reader's end |
| 16:45 |
|
kowey |
oh, I think it's safe to drop 2.2.x (or at least 2.2.0) from the benchmarks now (in case this makes things faster for ya) |
| 16:45 |
|
lispy |
kowey: you never know when 1) the sender's client will do something to it, 2) one of the mail servers in the chain of relays will reformat it, 3) when the recipient's end will reformat it |
| 16:47 |
|
lispy |
the angband project is considering switching to dvcs so I'm sending them an email detailing why darcs is good and when it is not applicable |
| 16:47 |
|
kowey |
angband? |
| 16:47 |
|
* kowey |
googles |
| 16:50 |
|
kowey |
lispy: yeah :-( re the difficulty of tracking down these formatting issues |
| 16:50 |
|
lispy |
http://angband.oook.cz/piperma[…]nuary/000897.html |
| 16:50 |
|
kowey |
that said, http://lists.osuosl.org/piperm[…]nuary/022833.html <-- see, it can work! |
| 16:50 |
|
kowey |
:-D |
| 16:51 |
|
lispy |
kowey: yeah, one constraint too is that the RFC makes some comments about lines over length 100 |
| 16:51 |
|
lispy |
I'm guessing my email had lines that wide |
| 16:52 |
|
kowey |
(and if you have any patience for this, one thing to try maybe is to switch your gmail compose interface to plain text when transmitting these tables) |
| 16:52 |
|
kowey |
(I don't want to make this benchmarking stuff any more of a pain than it already is, mind you) |
| 16:52 |
|
kowey |
(I'm just saying, it may be worth trying out if you do produce future benchmarks) |
| 16:52 |
|
kowey |
(I think I'll stop using these parentheses now) |
| 16:53 |
|
lispy |
I honestly believe the problem this time was the width of the table. It wasn't an issue with my last table, was it? |
| 16:53 |
|
kowey |
well, that url above is a reply to one of your tables |
| 16:53 |
|
kowey |
so I don't think width is necessarily the problem |
| 16:53 |
|
kowey |
http://lists.osuosl.org/piperm[…]nuary/022832.html |
| 16:53 |
|
kowey |
for the reply, I manually joined the lines in my text editor |
| 16:54 |
|
lispy |
Oh, interesting. so in my email client those lines looked fine but in the archive, not so much |
| 16:54 |
|
lispy |
Yeah, I'll probably continue to use attachments then |
| 16:54 |
|
lispy |
at least those will work |
| 16:55 |
|
kowey |
OK |
| 17:02 |
|
darcswikibot |
27 Jan 17:01 - cleanup of projects using darcs (Guillaume Hoffmann) |
| 17:06 |
|
kowey |
one idea might be to break this down by number of commits |
| 17:06 |
|
kowey |
ballpark |
| 17:08 |
|
kowey |
lispy: whoops, you accidentally said 'interactive gui' |
| 17:08 |
|
lispy |
oh |
| 17:08 |
|
lispy |
instead of ui |
| 17:08 |
|
kowey |
but yeah, nice friendly, non-frothing-at-mouth mail :-) |
| 17:09 |
|
kowey |
the fact that they're switching to *a* dvcs just makes life easier for everybody in any case |
| 17:11 |
|
lispy |
Right |
| 17:12 |
|
kowey |
I don't mean to insist, but I've found more evidence for my "blame rich text mode" hypothesis :-) |
| 17:12 |
|
kowey |
which is that your mail actually comes in two flavours, one plain-text and one HTML |
| 17:13 |
|
kowey |
and that the HTML one is just fine, so my working guess is that gmail's rich text => plain text converter hard-wraps things to be friendly |
| 17:13 |
|
kowey |
anyway, it's no big deal, I just curious about these things sometimes! |
| 17:14 |
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lispy |
kowey: Well, I've had this issues historically irrespective of gmail |
| 17:14 |
|
lispy |
Like, before I gmail existed |
| 17:14 |
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lispy |
"I knew..." |
| 17:15 |
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kowey |
ah, but have you ever been one of those grumpy people with anti-rich-text racism in their veins? |
| 17:16 |
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kowey |
anyway, I hereby drop the matter ... times have changed, rich text is here to stay, nothing I can do about it |
| 17:17 |
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darcswikibot |
27 Jan 17:09 - forgotten ones (Guillaume Hoffmann) |
| 17:18 |
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lispy |
kowey: I used to be annoyed at MS versions of rich text things that were closed, proprietary, or broken; but these days rich-text can be "okay". |
| 17:18 |
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* kowey |
sniffs haughtily |
| 17:18 |
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kowey |
although I do confess to making very liberal use of rich text in Wave |
| 17:41 |
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darcswikibot |
27 Jan 17:39 - merge Quickstart into GettingStarted, say more about tags (Guillaume Hoffmann) |
| 17:43 |
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gh_ |
bye |
| 17:55 |
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darcswikibot |
27 Jan 23:29 - toc leveling () |
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