| Time |
S |
Nick |
Message |
| 01:03 |
|
zooko |
I built darcs myself and it has the wrong --version |
| 01:04 |
|
zooko |
it says 2.4.4, but there are many patches since that tag |
| 01:20 |
|
zooko |
How can I get it to have an --exact-version and to give a correct number for "--version"? |
| 01:33 |
|
zooko |
Hm. why is it saying this http://codepad.org/COdhMTmW |
| 01:36 |
|
zooko |
Wait, what? Did it just scp five different patches in a row onto the same local file? |
| 01:36 |
|
zooko |
http://codepad.org/1pnVe4Bi |
| 01:54 |
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| 01:59 |
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| 03:28 |
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| 03:30 |
|
abuiles |
zooko, seems that it's this bug http://bugs.darcs.net/issue1854 which is affecting you too. |
| 03:39 |
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| 04:57 |
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| 05:49 |
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| 05:56 |
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| 06:37 |
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| 06:55 |
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| 06:55 |
|
tux_rocker |
good morning |
| 06:55 |
|
tux_rocker |
does anyone know where Trent is hiding? |
| 06:55 |
|
tux_rocker |
perhaps he's staying in bed for the southern hemisphere winter... |
| 07:02 |
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| 07:02 |
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| 07:03 |
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| 07:32 |
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| 07:32 |
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| 08:37 |
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| 08:45 |
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| 08:52 |
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| 08:52 |
|
kowey |
morning |
| 08:58 |
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| 10:29 |
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| 11:11 |
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| 11:45 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: do you know if the mmap problem was due to using a later version of mmap that was borked, or due simply to using a different version from that used by hashed-storage ? |
| 11:45 |
|
dcoutts |
i.e. is it that you want to always use the same version as hashed-storage, or that you simply want to delegate the task of picking a non-borked mmap version to hashed-storage ? |
| 11:49 |
|
kowey |
I think it was due to using a different version than that used by hashed-storage |
| 11:49 |
|
kowey |
but we'd have to check with Gracjan to make sure there was any problem with the mmap 0.5 that was out at the time |
| 11:50 |
|
kowey |
I think mornfall would remember if he's around |
| 11:50 |
|
kowey |
dcoutts is referring to http://bugs.darcs.net/issue1753 (in which darcs was using mmap 0.5 and hashed-storage was using mmap 0.4) |
| 11:51 |
|
kowey |
also note that HEAD darcs is now using *a* version of mmap-0.5, as is hashed-storage 0.5 |
| 11:52 |
|
kowey |
also ever since, we have not constrained our mmap version to be higher than 0.5 (so no eg. 0.5.4), which I take as circumstantial evidence to this just being about the mismatch |
| 11:54 |
|
kowey |
(ok, sorry to go around in circles, dcoutts, but I think this comment from mornfall answers your question: "If cabal happily builds darcs with two different mmap versions linked in, that's a cabal bug.") |
| 11:54 |
|
kowey |
so at the time at least, we also believed it was about mismatches |
| 11:54 |
|
dcoutts |
http://hackage.haskell.org/tra[…]ket/700#comment:3 |
| 11:55 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: see, that's not something cabal can always guarantee |
| 11:56 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: there are plenty of other users who consider it a cabal but that it does not typically allow building with multiple different versions of dependencies |
| 11:56 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: it happens currently to guarantee it for users of `cabal install`, but using other command you can work around that restriction and end up with multiple versions (though with a warning) |
| 11:57 |
|
dcoutts |
details in the comment to the ticket above |
| 11:57 |
|
kowey |
"I don't care if foo wants parsec 2, just because I use foo doesn't mean I shouldn't be able to use parsec 3" |
| 11:57 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: exactly |
| 11:57 |
|
dcoutts |
and in future we intend to relax the restriction specifically to allow examples like parsec 2 vs 4 |
| 11:58 |
|
dcoutts |
erm vs 3 |
| 11:58 |
|
dcoutts |
by indicating "private" dependencies |
| 11:58 |
|
dcoutts |
ones where no types are exported |
| 11:58 |
|
dcoutts |
or rather re-exported |
| 11:58 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: because we're only thinking of the problem of compile failure due to type mismatch |
| 11:59 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: we've never considered that using multiple versions of a lib could cause other kinds of runtime failure |
| 11:59 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: which is why I'm interested in the details of what is happening with mmap in darcs vs hashed-storage |
| 11:59 |
|
kowey |
so one thing which would be useful is some kind of minimal example without darcs, perhaps? |
| 12:00 |
|
kowey |
tester uses hashed-storage and mmap |
| 12:00 |
|
dcoutts |
do people understand what the problem actually is? |
| 12:00 |
|
dcoutts |
or is it just noted that it goes away when using the same mmap version |
| 12:00 |
|
kowey |
I think we only understand it at the symptomatic level (although it's quite likely that mornfall actually does have an insight) |
| 12:01 |
|
kowey |
(so no, I don't think so) |
| 12:02 |
|
Igloo |
It's a change in C code in the package, isn't it? |
| 12:03 |
|
dcoutts |
ah, do the C code symbols clash? |
| 12:03 |
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| 12:03 |
|
dcoutts |
ah that'll be it |
| 12:04 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: yes, the problem will be that the C code clashes |
| 12:04 |
|
dcoutts |
it's possible to link multiple versions of a Haskell package into one program |
| 12:04 |
|
dcoutts |
however C code in those packages usually does not use versioned names |
| 12:05 |
|
dcoutts |
and the system linker does not mind |
| 12:05 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: the reason cabal lets you link multiple versions at all is because it's safe for ghc for Haskell code |
| 12:05 |
|
kowey |
so the crash here is the mmap-0.5 (or mmap-0.4) Haskell code expecting the mmap C code to behave in the mmap 0.5 way |
| 12:06 |
|
kowey |
(or vice-versa) |
| 12:06 |
|
dcoutts |
but special care needs to be taken with C code linked into Haskell packages |
| 12:06 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: exactly |
| 12:08 |
|
dcoutts |
http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/2979 |
| 12:08 |
|
dcoutts |
kowey: indirectly mentions the problem of versioned symbols |
| 12:08 |
|
Igloo |
ISTR the amount of C code is tiny, so could easily be Haskellified |
| 12:09 |
|
dcoutts |
right, two solutions, one is to make the C function name versioned (or at least the linker name) |
| 12:09 |
|
dcoutts |
the other is to eliminate the C code |
| 12:10 |
|
dcoutts |
and the workaround is to avoid linking multiple versions of the mmap package |
| 12:12 |
|
dcoutts |
another solution might be to play with symbol visibility |
| 12:16 |
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| 12:23 |
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| 12:23 |
|
kowey |
on a more general flufflier note, this could be a nice example of "it works" being a bug (depending on how you look at things) |
| 12:28 |
|
kowey |
and also it seems like eliminating the C code could be nice in mmap's big picture, but I imagine that in the all-of-hackage big picture, we'd want C function names to be versionified in the long run? |
| 12:33 |
|
dcoutts |
http://hackage.haskell.org/tra[…]ket/700#comment:4 |
| 12:33 |
|
dcoutts |
http://hackage.haskell.org/tra[…]ackage/ticket/701 |
| 12:37 |
|
mornfall |
dcoutts: The problem is that Cabal will link two mmap versions even if *not asked to*. |
| 12:38 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: "cabal install" does not do that |
| 12:38 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: but "cabal configure" or "runghc Setup configure" might, with a warning. |
| 12:39 |
|
kowey |
(!) that might explain why almost nobody was complaining about it (one of the mysteries on that ticket) |
| 12:39 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: and we do not consider it a bug to link two versions of a package |
| 12:39 |
|
mornfall |
dcoutts: My experience is that building a package from a dirty source tree will look for packages that did not even exist at configure time... |
| 12:39 |
|
kowey |
if most people just do "cabal install" and the handful of people that ran into trouble did the grab tarball, cabal configure etc route |
| 12:39 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: we consider it a bug if compiling two versions of a package causes a compile failure (due to clashing types) |
| 12:40 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: running cabal build will not check that the dependent packages still exist |
| 12:40 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: but I don't think that's related to this problem |
| 12:41 |
|
mornfall |
Well, my point is that Cabal will happily throw in random packages at different occasions, so why not at this one... |
| 12:42 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: I don't follow |
| 12:42 |
|
dcoutts |
I don't know what you mean about it "throwing in random packages" |
| 12:43 |
|
mornfall |
Well, try this: A depends on B, get B-0.1, configure and build A, then get B-0.2 and remove B-0.1, *reconfigure* A and rebuild -- it will complain about missing B-0.1. |
| 12:43 |
|
mornfall |
If this also happens to be included in the link command, you have the mmap situation right away. |
| 12:44 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: ah, that's a ghc --make bug, I think it may be fixed in 6.12 |
| 12:44 |
|
mornfall |
Hm. I am running 6.12, so probably not. |
| 12:44 |
|
dcoutts |
ok |
| 12:44 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: the existing .hi files know they link to specific package versions |
| 12:44 |
|
mornfall |
But, could that mean that the old package gets linked into something that already requires a newer version? |
| 12:45 |
|
dcoutts |
if --make does not rebuild them then at link time they will request the other package version |
| 12:45 |
|
mornfall |
I.e. h-s wants mmap 0.5, but 0.4 gets linked in as well, since not all .hi files got rebuilt? |
| 12:46 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: if that's what ghc --make is currently doing, then yes I guess that is possible |
| 12:46 |
|
mornfall |
So there's at least one source of mislinked darcs executables, then. There may be others, but I think this plausibly could lead to bogus darcs. |
| 12:47 |
|
mornfall |
And it certainly is a bug (be it GHC or Cabal). |
| 12:47 |
|
dcoutts |
mornfall: if you can reproduce this please file it as a ghc and/or cabal ticket |
| 12:47 |
|
dcoutts |
old .hi files referencing old packages would certainly be bad |
| 12:48 |
|
mornfall |
Have to run. See you... (Eric, if you still want to look into this, investigating the outlined would be certainly helpful...) |
| 12:53 |
|
kowey |
create two trivial packages A and B which depend on each other and try to demonstrate a B-0.1 function being used even though you've rebuilt/configured to use B-0.2? |
| 12:53 |
|
kowey |
s/which depend on each other/where A depends on B/ |
| 12:59 |
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| 13:32 |
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| 14:07 |
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| 14:14 |
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| 14:23 |
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| 14:23 |
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| 14:49 |
|
mornfall |
kowey: Please, coerce Adolfo into fixing win32, or something. :) It's still failing on his test. |
| 14:49 |
|
* mornfall |
goes home. |
| 14:54 |
|
kowey |
he's still looking into it |
| 14:54 |
|
kowey |
it did come up last night, though and it's on the agenda for this week |
| 14:57 |
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| 15:18 |
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| 15:48 |
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| 15:57 |
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| 15:58 |
|
lelit |
hey zooko! |
| 16:10 |
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| 16:24 |
|
mornfall |
kowey: Well, when (relevant bits of) patch273 get merged, this will become an alpha blocker. |
| 16:26 |
|
abuiles |
hi mornfall |
| 16:27 |
|
abuiles |
mornfall, which is the configuration of the machine in which the test is failing ? It passed in my XP machine, I'm installing vista for checking that out. |
| 16:35 |
|
kowey |
abuiles: one idea I just had |
| 16:35 |
|
kowey |
maybe this is specific to the buildbot somehow |
| 16:36 |
|
kowey |
abuiles: maybe if you set up a buildslave http://wiki.darcs.net/Development/BuildBot |
| 16:36 |
|
abuiles |
is it possible ? |
| 16:36 |
|
kowey |
on your XP box, you may be able to reproduce it successfully |
| 16:37 |
|
kowey |
another thing is that if you look into Darcs.Repository.Prefs, you can see that globalPrefsDir does three things |
| 16:39 |
|
kowey |
(1) looks for DARCS_TESTING_PREFS_DIR, (2) looks for an appUserDataDirectory [is that $HOME when on Unix?] |
| 16:40 |
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| 16:43 |
|
abuiles |
yeah, the home of the current user. |
| 16:43 |
|
abuiles |
on Unix |
| 16:47 |
|
kowey |
another observation is that Distribution.ShellHarness sets DARCS_TESTING_PREFS_DIR |
| 16:49 |
|
kowey |
another thing to test is what getAppUserDataDirectory does wrt slashes |
| 16:49 |
|
abuiles |
I just noticed that getAppUserDataDirectory "darcs" is not the same as $HOME/.darcs in windows. |
| 16:51 |
|
kowey |
well, keep in mind that in testing mode $HOME is /c/buildbot/darcs/6.12.1 Vista/build/tests-darcs-2.dir/ which is already weird |
| 16:53 |
|
kowey |
a good debugging step may be to putStrLn the global cache dir under Windows |
| 16:53 |
|
kowey |
both manually and under cabal test (you could write it to a special file) |
| 16:55 |
|
abuiles |
ok, I will install the build both, and I'll let you know how it goes with that. |
| 17:04 |
|
mornfall |
I don't think buildbot should influence things much. |
| 17:05 |
|
mornfall |
You can see the complete environment it's using in the stdio. |
| 17:06 |
|
mornfall |
dropLocalCache seems to be quite simplistic, too |
| 17:11 |
|
mornfall |
E.g. why not drop all Cache Directory entries? |
| 17:11 |
|
abuiles |
don't we need the other ones ? |
| 17:12 |
|
abuiles |
do you mean, if I have other cache directory, drop it as well ? |
| 17:13 |
|
mornfall |
Well, what is the definition of "global cache"? |
| 17:13 |
|
mornfall |
Any source that is not a repo, IMHO, qualifies as one. |
| 17:14 |
|
kowey |
that's a good point |
| 17:14 |
|
mornfall |
These should all be configurable in ~/.darcs/sources. |
| 17:14 |
|
kowey |
and it simplifies your code too |
| 17:16 |
|
abuiles |
I was thinking that I wouldn't know which where the global caches, but I just wasn't thinking about ~/.darcs/sources |
| 17:16 |
|
abuiles |
but Would I want all my repos to check in all the sources in ~/.darcs/sources ? |
| 17:19 |
|
mornfall |
Well, that's the idea behind ~/.darcs/sources. |
| 17:22 |
|
abuiles |
that's right.. brb I'm going for lunch |
| 17:24 |
|
mornfall |
kowey: Hm. Could I abuse (delegate) you to chase Alexey a bit? If you do so, please keep me CCd. |
| 17:24 |
|
mornfall |
kowey: About the blog etc. |
| 17:24 |
|
mornfall |
kowey: And about being more ... visible. |
| 17:24 |
|
mornfall |
You know I suck at this myself... |
| 17:25 |
|
kowey |
OK |
| 17:25 |
|
mornfall |
I can trade some code mentoring with Adolfo for a bit of organisational mentoring, maybe? |
| 17:27 |
|
kowey |
I'll have to think about it |
| 17:27 |
|
kowey |
I'm probably more useful in organisational terms than in code terms (consider all the stuff I miss during review) |
| 17:28 |
|
kowey |
so it'd make sense on that level, but it also depends on how far you want to take this (and how our two students feel) |
| 17:28 |
|
mornfall |
Well, not too far, presumably. |
| 17:29 |
|
kowey |
OK, for now I'll keep this on the level of just chasing a bit |
| 17:30 |
|
mornfall |
(Of course, I'm more efficient on the code level than on org, so the more I trade, the more productive I am going to be. But I don't want to hide from my responsibilities either...) |
| 17:31 |
|
kowey |
OK, well I think the general deal with my role in Darcs quite clear by now :-) |
| 17:32 |
|
kowey |
... in the sense that I try my best to deliver all the services the rest of you need to get on with the hacking |
| 17:32 |
|
kowey |
so we can dial this up or down as you see fit (and as my time allows) |
| 17:39 |
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| 17:46 |
|
mornfall |
Well, I still need to more than double my number of patches to attack your position in show authors... : - P |
| 17:48 |
|
kowey |
just start finding things to camel case; that's what I do |
| 17:50 |
|
mornfall |
So I think a Cache Directory -based filter will fix that win32 issue (hopefully). From there, we are just 2 patches away from alpha. |
| 17:50 |
|
mornfall |
We really should get it out before friday, so we can have another before freeze. |
| 17:51 |
|
mornfall |
Also, I was wondering if it's not too confusing to use darcs-beta as a package name for the alpha. |
| 17:51 |
|
Igloo |
mornfall: What does the C finalizer in mmap do? |
| 17:51 |
|
mornfall |
Igloo: Unmap the memory? |
| 17:51 |
|
Igloo |
Why does that need to be a C finalizer? |
| 17:52 |
|
mornfall |
Legend has it, that C finalizers are called much more eagerly than Haskell ones. |
| 17:52 |
|
Igloo |
I don't think that's true |
| 17:52 |
|
Igloo |
They are guaranteed to be called, but that only means they get run at exit if they haven't already run |
| 17:53 |
|
Igloo |
And if you're exiting, then unmapping the memory presumably isn't important |
| 17:55 |
|
mornfall |
Wed Dec 10 15:05:10 GMT 2008 Ivan Tomac <tomac pacific.net.au> |
| 17:55 |
|
mornfall |
* FIX #1364: added support for C finalizers that run as soon as the value is no longer reachable. |
| 17:58 |
|
mornfall |
It's using weak pointers, so presumably it works as advertised, and is therefore desirable for mmap. |
| 18:01 |
|
abuiles |
kowey, mornfall I'm back, and I'm okay with the trading. Also, I will implement the Cache Directory filter, but I'm just thinking how should the test case for this one looks like now ? grep for the word cache: ? |
| 18:02 |
|
Igloo |
OK, so I guess it's true that Haskell finalizers do have to then actually be scheduled |
| 18:06 |
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| 18:23 |
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| 18:28 |
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abuiles |
mornfall, do you know if are the readonly caches also consider to be declared just in ~/.darcs/sources ? They are directories too.. |
| 19:44 |
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| 21:11 |
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| 21:35 |
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| 21:56 |
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| 22:09 |
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mornfall |
abuiles: Yes, I think read-only or read-write doesn't really matter. |
| 22:11 |
|
abuiles |
mornfall, thanks , I will send the patch and the amend for the test issue, in a couple of minutes. |
| 22:13 |
|
mornfall |
Don't amend patches that are already on the mainline, though. |
| 22:13 |
|
mornfall |
Just record one on top. |
| 22:14 |
|
mornfall |
The test can do both things, btw. -- check what it currently does *and* check for any cache: entries. |
| 22:16 |
|
abuiles |
and "readonly:" too |
| 22:26 |
|
mornfall |
For now, that all amounts to the same thing, given there's just one cache in that test. |
| 22:49 |
|
mornfall |
--> bed. Goodnight. |
| 22:53 |
|
abuiles |
Goodnight |
| 23:40 |
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