Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #darcs, 2013-04-30

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
08:18 ilbot_bck joined #darcs
08:18 Topic for #darcs is now http://darcs.net/ | logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/darcs/ | darcs 2.8.4 is out http://darcs.net/Releases/2.8
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12:41 Heffalump does anyone understand the logic in cacheLoc in Darcs.Repository.Cache.copyFileUsingCache - when it finds a file in the cache it apparently throws an exception (!)
12:41 owst Heffalump: definitely sounds sane.
12:42 Heffalump you touched it last, but I think it was just tidying :-)
12:42 owst Probably. I don't recall doing anything interesting to it
12:43 owst `darcs annotate --ignore '*tidy*|*clean*'` :-)
12:43 owst Or something
12:44 Heffalump does that work?
12:45 owst No that was a wish
12:45 owst sorry
12:45 Heffalump ah :-)
12:45 Heffalump good idea though...
12:46 owst Yeah, it would be nice. Might be tricky to get right w.r.t. ignored patches that add/remove lines
12:47 owst the whole of copyFileUsingCache looks very strange
12:47 owst sfuc seems to do things to caches that aren't writeable :-s
12:47 owst It all looks a bit wrong to me :-)
12:49 Heffalump darcs get on my laptop is incredibly slow, and it seems all the time is being spent in there throwing exceptions or smoething
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14:24 bsrk Hi,
14:24 bsrk I am thinking of applying for Gsoc,
14:24 bsrk and the project idea "enhance darcsden",
14:24 bsrk has caught my eye.
14:24 bsrk The project page offers these ideas:
14:24 bsrk >> local hub: enable darcsden to be run locally and easily
14:24 bsrk >> local and awareness of branches: track repository relationships
14:24 bsrk >> enable darcs send to upload a patch bundle via http to darcsden
14:25 bsrk The first two ideas are a little vague, so I wanted to ask,
14:25 bsrk What you would expect an implementation of these ideas will look like,
14:25 bsrk and what you would like from a project on enhancing darcsden
14:26 bsrk Btw, I have worked on using packs in darcsden recently,
14:26 bsrk and hopefully you people will be able to use it soon!
14:32 donri sm: ^
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14:39 donri bsrk: i think the first one might be about things like: move away from couch/redis to something not requiring a server, such as an sql lib that can use sqlite, or acid-state; make the config not hardcoded / part of the repo; in general make it possible to simply 'cabal install && darcsden' with little to zero setup
14:40 donri bsrk: you'll not from the readme it's currently a bit more involved than that: http://hub.darcs.net/simon/darcsden
14:40 Igloo What is the goal of this?
14:40 donri Igloo: which part?
14:40 Igloo Is it to make it easier for developers to work on darcsden, or easier for people to run their own darcsdens?
14:40 Igloo Of running darcsden locally
14:40 donri both I guess
14:40 Igloo I ask because a large part of the advantage of github, AIUI, is that there is only one
14:41 donri primarily the former i think
14:41 Igloo So making it easier to run your own may actually make things worse
14:41 donri there's a barrier to entry for contributing to darcsden currently  IMO
14:42 donri bsrk: s/not/note
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14:45 donri Igloo: sort of agree, but i also think a distributed design could work (such as SSO, cross-host forking etc). but not what this is about i don't think
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14:45 donri Igloo: a lot of those benefits are about it being one system, not only about being "one host"
14:47 bsrk So, ideally it should be as simple at hg serve?
14:47 bsrk in our case, darcsden serve?
14:48 donri bsrk: not sure that's the intended usage, but it should be similarly easy yes
14:48 donri you might be right that's the intention though, duno, but i think darcsden has a lot of assumptions about being multi-user, multi-repo
14:51 bsrk donri: so, making darcsden more like an application than a server?
14:51 donri something like that
14:52 donri but, just my interpretation
14:52 bsrk Why is this useful? :-)
14:52 bsrk Or, put in another way,
14:52 bsrk what more features should darcsden have,
14:52 bsrk to make it useful?
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14:53 bsrk (if, that is, there is some usefulness for local darcsden)
14:55 donri bsrk: useful for lowering the barrier to entry for contribution. not sure if it'll result in enough contributions to outweigh the gsoc time spent on it or not, but anyway
14:57 donri bsrk: other ideas that could be worked at in a gsoc could be take from http://hub.darcs.net/simon/darcsden/issues
14:58 donri bsrk: also perhaps implementing a github login (common complaint from githubbers is "don't want to register with yet another site")
15:00 bsrk donri: That does broaden the possible things to do!
15:00 bsrk I will also keep cross-host forking in mind.
15:00 donri i wasn't necessarily suggesting working on cross-host forking
15:00 donri might be interesting areas to explore in the longer run, but other things are more important now i think
15:01 bsrk What would make cross-host forking complicated?
15:01 bsrk It could be simple, if by fork, we just mean get. :-)
15:01 donri yeah it might not be that complicated, but every little feature takes work ;)
15:02 donri and then you have to figure out an UI for the new distributed nature ...
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15:04 bsrk Ah. So, let us simplify to giving an option to "import" a public repository.
15:04 bsrk (And, yeah there could be more useful things to do)
15:05 bsrk So, in your opinion, what could be useful enhancements to darcsden?
15:05 donri ah yeah, that could work easily. i think patch-tag supports that ...
15:07 donri bsrk: another thing that could be killer but needs darcs-bridge to be completed, is transparent git support. every darcs repo is also a git repo.
15:08 donri so if a contributor prefers git they can use it, and if you prefer darcs but want your project on github you can simply do git mirroring
15:13 donri bsrk: if the aim is to add features, look at the wish tag: http://hub.darcs.net/simon​/darcsden/issues/tag/wish
15:14 bsrk Yeah, I am looking at them. :-)
15:17 bsrk donri: I'd tentatively say that it is probably better
15:17 bsrk to make many small-medium changes,
15:17 bsrk over a killer like darcs bridge.
15:18 bsrk (Unless we can come up with a killer that we can be reasonably sure of succeeding)
15:19 donri bsrk: if darcs-bridge completes it wouldn't be a big change to darcsden to support it i don't think. basically just run "darcs-bridge sync" on push, plus some UI (maybe an option to disable it, and add a notice that you can git clone and push)
15:19 bsrk donri: that's true
15:20 donri but for a gsoc it's best to have clear, achievable goals that don't have external dependencies
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15:27 gh_ so, Marcio will finally not be able to apply for the GSoC ...
15:28 gh_ the good news is that anyone can pick up his application and the feedback it already received and submit it
15:28 donri gh_: see todays logs for gsoc chatter btw
15:28 gh_ oh are the logs back?
15:28 donri oh are they gone?
15:28 gh_ nope
15:28 gh_ ..
15:29 gh_ we should log the channel ourselves and put the logs on darcs.net
15:29 donri ok let me paste
15:29 gh_ donri, can you send them to me by mail or paste them somewhere?
15:30 donri gh_: https://pastee.org/fdv58
15:31 donri gh_: oh forgot the last line <donri> but for a gsoc it's best to have clear, achievable goals that don't have external dependencies
15:32 gh_ ok, I've read the log
15:32 gh_ bsrk, one thing, that may be my personal interpretation of the situation, but I'd rather warn you now
15:33 gh_ bsrk, is that we will be part of the haskell.org organization this year. I suspect a 100% haskell project will seem more interesting to the haskell community.
15:34 gh_ bsrk, I'm saying this with regards to the idea of migrating darcsden from redis/couchdb to sqlite.
15:34 gh_ well, this is actually a haskell project :)
15:34 gh_ and this is donri's idea. ok nevermind :)
15:35 donri gh_: what *are* you saying, though? :)
15:37 gh_ donri, that it would be better that the project be a haskell project.
15:37 donri gh_: yes, but i'm not sure what you mean by that practically
15:37 gh_ donri, for instance on darcs.net/GSoC there is an idea of making RabbitVCS support darcs. RabbitVCS is written in python. That would be a darcs project, but written in python.
15:38 donri ah
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16:07 Heffalump gh_: do you have any alternative students who might pick it up?
16:21 gh_ Heffalump, there are possible students that haven't confirmed anything yet, this afternoon I'm writing to them again.
16:24 mr- Is it reasonable to apply for a darcs GSoC project with no prior experience with darcs?
16:26 owst mr-: Do you have experience with Haskell? If no darcs or Haskell experience I'd suggest it wasn't a good idea...
16:28 gh_ mr-, I think it's reasonable if you are willing to show us that you are capable of doing it.
16:28 mr- owst: I do have experience with haskell.
16:30 gh_ mr-, for instance, we will feel more confident if you send us simple patch(es) (cleanup patches, probably-easy bugs)
16:31 gh_ mr-, when you say you have no prior experience, you mean as a developer or also as user?
16:31 * gh_ has to go out for a while
16:31 mr- gh_: both, actually
16:36 owst mr-: do you have a project in mind?
16:40 mr- owst: I have been looking at optimize --reorder. It does look interesting, I am a little worried about my prerequisites and about deliverables.
16:40 owst mr-: got a link I can take a peek at on the wiki?
16:42 mr- http://darcs.net/GSoC#optimize-optimize---​reorder-and-other-patch-reordering-issues
16:43 owst I'd heed the warning, that sounds pretty hardcore - especially so if you have no experience with darcs! But if you're up for a challenge...
17:09 mr- owst: Ok. I was just wondering if prior experience would actually help with that proposal ;-)
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17:34 mornfall http://pastebin.dqd.cz/pSBK/ :\
17:34 mornfall pending seems to be allright though
17:35 owst :-(
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22:21 Heffalump mr-: I suspect it wouldn't be that much help :-)
22:22 Heffalump mr-: I'd be happy to consult on a proposal for that project too
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