Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #darcs, 2014-04-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

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01:46 Topic for #darcs is now http://darcs.net/ | logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/darcs/ | darcs 2.8.4 is out http://darcs.net/Releases/2.8
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15:14 xstill hi, is there any option to show UTF8 characters in rec/diff directly as characters?
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18:07 sclv_ hi all!
18:07 sclv_ i'm swinging by to discuss stuff relating to darcs and haskell infrastructure
18:07 sclv_ Heffalump: you around? alexsuraci?
18:08 sclv_ i don't know who else would be "core darcs/hub.darcs" at this point.
18:08 sclv_ Here's the general set of thoughts:
18:09 sclv_ we host community.haskell.org still, which is generally used for issue trackers, homepages, and sometimes private projects, typically for darcs projects
18:10 sclv_ it is silly in this day and age to have lots and lots of shell accounts on one box, which is the legacy architecture
18:10 sclv_ so for homepages we can just provide sftp access
18:11 sclv_ but for repos we need a better solution. if i recall, darcs really wants ssh access unless we use bitrotted darcs-client, darcs-server
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18:11 sclv_ but also i think hub.darcs.net provides everything ppl could need
18:11 sclv_ including shared private collaboration
18:12 sclv_ so the question is A) is there a way to set up a "better" c.h.o for darcs stuff easily
18:12 sclv_ and B) barring that could we coordinate a good migration to hub.darcs.net
18:15 * Heffalump appears
18:15 Heffalump sm is the main hub.darcs.net person
18:16 Heffalump darcsden (and thus hub.darcs.net) does offer ssh access
18:17 sclv_ right, i have an account and i enjoy it
18:17 Heffalump you could run darcsden on c.h.o yourselves, but that doesn't seem like a great use of admin time
18:17 sclv_ agreed
18:18 Heffalump but if you wanted a seamless migration that would be the way to go temporarily
18:18 sclv_ hrm
18:18 Heffalump what do you want to do aout issue tracking etc?
18:18 sclv_ well i don't know if our tracs are even used -- need to take a survey
18:18 sclv_ i think thy're pretty bitrotted
18:18 sclv_ and only a few may be in use
18:18 sclv_ i know hub has issue tracking too
18:18 Heffalump yeah, but pretty rudimentary
18:18 sclv_ so what i'd really like is just to encourage everyone still using c.h.o to switch to hub.darcs
18:18 sclv_ if they're cool with it
18:19 Heffalump that seems like the best starting point if you're not in a rush - just ask them to migrate manually
18:19 sclv_ it does offer free shared private repos, right?
18:19 Heffalump I think so, but check with sm
18:19 Heffalump who is using that on c.h.o?
18:19 sclv_ sm_: if yr around, you may want to read the scrollback :-)
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18:20 sclv_ Heffalump: i think that its used by some well known academics in the haskell community to collaborate on papers, etc.
18:20 Heffalump fair enough
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18:24 sclv_ Heffalump: any plans to add sftp support to darcs or any other mechanism to do ssh-less push/pull (or bring darcs-server/darcs-client back up to date)?
18:25 sclv_ or is the idea just that darcsden software is the proper answer
18:25 sm_ hi sclv_
18:27 Heffalump is sftp a different protocol to ssh? I'm not clear on the use case.
18:27 sm sclv_: yes currently shared private repos are free, though that would be the most likely thing to charge for if I ever needed to
18:27 sclv_ use case is lots of shell accounts is maybe hinky
18:28 Heffalump is it that you don't want a darcs binary on the remote end?
18:28 sclv_ mainly just don't want to maintain a box with lots of shell accounts!
18:28 sclv_ whatever the easiest way to do that is...
18:29 sclv_ sm: if you want to start a conversation with the haskell.org committee b/c you could use resources (especially in return for help migrating existing c.h.o users to hub.darcs) then we'd be up for that
18:30 Heffalump sclv_: darcsden does have an ssh server of its own though, so I'm still not quite clear what you're looking for in general
18:30 sclv_ aha
18:30 sclv_ i see
18:31 sclv_ the notion i suppose is like mercurial or w/e can provide a lightweight server for ppl to get/put
18:31 sclv_ or there's gitolite
18:31 sm sclv_: yes if haskell.org has any funding it could redirect from c.h.o, that would help sustain darcs hub. My current motivation level is "keep the current system running"
18:31 sclv_ if darcsden has a similarly lightweight footprint then it can occupy the same place in the ecosystem
18:32 Heffalump you mean you want to run gitolite/mercurial on c.h.o?
18:32 sclv_ not necessarily. the argument is those provide a certain type of service
18:33 sclv_ not even for c.h.o purposes, but in general
18:33 sclv_ i don't know if there's something similar in the darcs ecosystem
18:33 Heffalump I think that's darcsden
18:33 Heffalump though I haven't looked closely at what they offer
18:33 sclv_ ok, that answers my question :-)
18:33 Heffalump it certainly could only be darcsden
18:34 sclv_ right, so the new question is what would need to happen to darcsden to help it fill that role, if anything?
18:34 Heffalump I'm not sure - what exactly do you need from it?
18:35 sclv_ the idea i guess is as simple, lightweight, and out-of-the-box as possible so anyone can take 30 minutes to pop something up and have it be reliable
18:35 sclv_ not what *we* need at the moment
18:36 sclv_ but in general it would a great feature for darcs
18:36 sclv_ i'm going off topic a bit...
18:36 Heffalump I've been working on making it easier to run in various configurations, but that's a work in progress
18:36 sclv_ so for like a small shop to do an in-house web-based server or w/e
18:37 sclv_ or i have a local darcs repo and want to share it with my coworker on the fly (and for whatever reason he doesn't have access to my drive, etc.)
18:37 Heffalump but it is still fairly easy to run multi-user - does need CouchDB and Redis
18:37 sm sclv_: that's one of the two primary goals for darcsden
18:37 Heffalump how would you expect to manage authentication in that case?
18:38 sm well, one of the three primary goals
18:39 Heffalump you should come in again
18:39 sclv_ nobody expects the dvcs inquisition
18:39 sm I'll come in again.. the three primary goals of darcsden are 1. power a central community darcs hub 2. be an easy repo publishing/collaboration tool 3. be a single-user local repo browser/manager
18:40 sclv_ for case 3 i'd imagine it would do read only in one use case... just so someone could pull from me
18:40 Heffalump ok, and you wouldn't care about permissioning (perhaps most people would use obscurity in practice)
18:41 Heffalump we'd have to think a bit about that case given it works by having an ssh server
18:41 sclv_ well in that case they can just pull from http
18:41 Heffalump oh, yeah
18:41 Heffalump duh
19:00 * sm estimates darcs hub costs: 150h from me last year, currently 5h/mo basic maintenance + half of a $50/mo linode
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19:11 sclv_ sm: we also have some ability to use rackspace. if we could do free hosting at rackspace would you be up to migrate it?
19:11 sclv_ additionally, how much bandwidth/mo shld we estimate there?
19:27 sm sclv_: I'd help someone, sure, but I'd likely find less volunteer admin for it myself thereafter. Being on linode makes it pleasant for me to work on
19:27 sm bandwidth - I actually have no idea, I'll look into it
19:28 sm s/admin/admin time/
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19:34 sm That said, I just discovered I'm not seeing linode support mails, and they shut off my backups due to all the junk files darcs creates >:(
19:37 sm now I must wear my sysadmin dunce cap until I make things right
19:38 sm stupid hat. People point at me in the street.
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20:46 sm Heffalump, mornfall: do you have any idea what causes unnecessary files to be created in _darcs/patches ? If I could at least identify the unimportant files, I could clean them
20:47 sm eg a repo with 2k files in patches/ after a fresh get, accumulated about 34k additional files there in about two months
20:48 sm this has become a real problem for darcs hub
20:49 * sm finds a smaller & less important repo to poke at
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21:00 gh_ sm, up to mdiaz's patch, any patch that transits by your repository remains
21:00 gh_ sm, so you keep old versions of amended and obliterated patches
21:00 sm gh_: mdiaz ?
21:01 gh_ sm, he applied to GSoC this year and sent http://bugs.darcs.net/patch1134
21:03 sm gh_: interesting, thanks for the pointer. But this is dealing with inventories/ not patches/, right ?
21:03 * sm reads up
21:04 sm I know this repo did not receive 34k amends
21:07 sm can't view the patch <grumble>
21:07 sm glad it's there and you're helping, though
21:10 sm ok viewed with curl. I see it deals with the patches dir as well - so this may be very timely indeed
21:13 * sm tests it on throwaway repos
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22:58 sm what does darcs optimize --relink               "relink random internal data to a sibling"  mean ?

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