Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #darcs, 2015-04-28

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:55 Topic for #darcs is now http://darcs.net/ | logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/darcs/ | darcs 2.10.0 is out http://darcs.net/Releases/2.10
04:38 Heffalump why can't they be optionally built based on a flag?
04:38 Heffalump (you did mention redis actually,I forgot :-)
05:09 Heffalump sm: did you take over maintainership of CouchDB or just do an ad-hoc upload?
05:10 Heffalump is the comment on this correct? http://hub.darcs.net/simon/redis/patch/20150425202248-3c3f9 - seems like you're adding exceptions, not MonadCatchIO-mtl
06:09 Heffalump and did you actually intend to remove MonadCatchIO-mtl, given that it's deprecated in favour of exceptions?
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09:49 quarante1ne hi, I'm fairly new to darcs and I'm interested in its theory
09:50 quarante1ne why hasn't http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Understanding_Darcs/More_patch_theory been completed? Is it out of date?
09:51 quarante1ne do you have any reading advice about patch theory? I would like to understand patch theory in order to develop a toy DCVS
09:53 quarante1ne apparently, http://darcs.net/Theory is more complete
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14:18 sm Heffalump: I don't think you can skip a whole executable in a cabal file based on a flag.. at best you can build it as a stub
14:18 sm currently that's done with eg darcsden-post-hook but not very well
14:19 sm I just did an upload of CouchDB
14:21 sm huh.. guess I messed up on redis. I was intending just make the easiest changes to get it building with 7.10 and 7.8
14:23 sm bbl
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15:30 dolio What does 'skip an executable' mean? You can set buildable to false.
15:33 dolio And buildable: False makes cabal ignore the dependencies, I think.
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16:12 sm dolio: oho, I'll try that
16:37 Heffalump sm: what if you say Buildable: false ?
16:37 Heffalump oh, dolio said that, sorry
16:37 Heffalump sm: ok, I'll drop that patch and look at doing it myself. Did it build for you on 7.10 somehow?
16:38 Heffalump with CouchDB I don't mind maintaining it myself FYI, I'd been meaning to contact the maintainer
16:39 sm Heffalump: great. Yes it built for me on 7.10 with my patches but clearly I was getting a bit confused by then..
16:39 sm +1 for taking over CouchDB, though personally I want to get off couchdb
16:40 sm porting to ez-couch is another option
17:31 Heffalump did you need special permissions to upload to hackage?
17:31 Heffalump or does it being unmaintained mean that anyone an
17:31 Heffalump can
17:32 sm I needed to be added to the maintainers list
17:33 sm I think the days of free-for-all uploading are over
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18:41 vova Hi all. I've tried darcs 2.10 - it's amazing ! Thanks.
18:42 vova I wonder how to change the default editor to vim as it was before?
18:45 vova environment variables EDITOR, DARCS_EDITOR did not help
18:49 Heffalump sm: I'm not too keen on maintaining a changelog, I never remember in practice
18:49 Heffalump vova: they're just completely ignored?
18:49 Heffalump that's not intentional, AFAIK
18:53 gh_ vova, on my machine EDITOR is set to vim and darcs takes it into account
18:56 Heffalump yes, just checked and it worked for me too
18:56 vova I have installed darcs 2.10 . After changing variables EDITOR=vim and DARCS_EDITOR=vim I've tried to "record"
18:56 vova But nothing -> nano is opened
18:58 sm make sure it's a real env var, not a shell var
19:07 vova Realy? I thought that shell var and env var are the same things. How to check it?
19:14 vova Oh, I see.  $ export EDITOR=vim. Now it works
19:35 sm yeah I thought that too
19:36 sm set EDITOR=vim <- no good
19:37 sm for a persistent env var, I check with env | grep VAR
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20:27 Heffalump sm: new version of redis uploaded
20:30 sm Heffalump: thanks
20:30 sm that leaves just one pending install hurdle for darcsden with 7.10/7.8, should be resolved soon
20:43 Heffalump what's the hurdle?
20:45 Heffalump I had a problem with webdriver trying to build the tests actually
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20:51 Heffalump hi povman, did you see the mailing list thread about a sprint (I think you were asking about it on here a few days ago)?
20:59 sm Heffalump: the need for --allow-newer=MonadCatchIO-transformers (cf http://hub.darcs.net/simon/darcsden/issue/127)
21:01 Heffalump hmm, I didn't have that problem
21:01 Heffalump is MonadCatchIO-mtl a dependency at all now that redis doesn't need it?
21:11 sm Heffalump: ah indeed, you probably took care of that one
21:13 sm ok, darcsden HEAD should now install cleanly with 7.8 or 7.10 and today's hackage
21:14 sm including with -fssh -fclosing -fhighlightingkate --enable-tests
21:15 Heffalump really? webdriver didn't work for me
21:15 sm what error ?
21:16 Heffalump btw why do you bump lower bounds to packages? I'd expect darcsden to still compile with older versions with older GHCs
21:16 Heffalump src/Test/WebDriver/Commands.hs:221:15: Could not deduce (L.Exception e0) arising from a use of ‘handle’ from the context (WebDriver wd, FromJSON a)
21:16 Heffalump is the first error - webdriver 0.6.1
21:16 sm don't remember hitting that one
21:17 sm re lower bounds, what's an example ?
21:18 Heffalump like redis, just now
21:19 sm well, I want installation not to break for a ghc 7.10 user
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21:19 Heffalump even if the earlier versions have broken deps, cabal should still choose the latest version
21:19 sm ie I don't want cabal to grind forever and then fail, or compilation to fail
21:19 sm I don't know any other way to prevent that, than requiring the updated redis
21:20 sm (based on my testing)
21:20 Heffalump given that the updated one does exist, are you sure that lower values for the lower-bounds are actually a problem?
21:21 Heffalump if the latest version incorrectly claims to build with a particular GHC then there's often a problem, but that's not the case (any more)
21:21 sm perhaps now cabal would pick the new one and it would work, but there's no guarantee
21:21 sm I'm trying to reduce the chaos
21:21 sm especially for these deprecated minor packages for which there's no reason not to upgrade
21:22 Heffalump it's hard to know, e.g. with the upgrade from MonadCatchIO-mtl to exceptions in redis, an older GHC might be cut off
21:22 Heffalump anyway, I'll let you know if I have a real problem rather than a theoretical one
21:23 sm I mean even with the new redis released, cabal will very quickly try to use the older one if someone's package db is this or that state, and then boom (fail)
21:24 Heffalump I have a vague plan to get all the dependencies of old versions of my packages fixed on hackage, I'll get back to you once I've done that :-)
21:25 sm if you find reliable install plans that accommodate additional older versions, we can adjust the bounds of course
21:25 sm given finite time I prefer to make it work for the current stuff
21:25 sm sounds good
21:26 * sm is very definitely not caring about GHC < 7.8
21:28 Heffalump fair enough, I guess there's not much point for darcsden. We work reasonably hard on having darcs work on a reasonable range of versions.
21:28 sm I know, you're very good with that
21:29 Heffalump and maintaining HTTP as well, I guess I end up with a mindset of wanting to support the maximum range possible
21:29 sm I try to do the same with hledger, but I can't afford it for darcsden. More hands makes it possible of course
21:30 sm still as you say, not sure it's of any value for darcsden. I know of exactly two people installing it right now :)
21:30 Heffalump you and me?
21:30 sm yup
21:31 sm maybe gh soon
21:31 Heffalump and notdan too!
21:31 sm hurrah!
21:31 Heffalump btw, what sort of things do you need to get darcshub on a better supported footing?
21:33 sm that's a good question
21:35 Heffalump I was also wondering if we could revisit the darcs-1 issue for hub. I've been realising that actually running a separate server myself, while quite doable, will eat up time I could probably use more productively on other stuff including things that would hopefully help you with darcshub.
21:35 sm I have a lot of scenarios in mind
21:36 sm it should probably get its own dedicated vps
21:37 Heffalump what spec would it need?
21:37 sm a 2G or better linode would be ideal
21:37 sm it also needs more maintainer time. One way to do that is have it generate income
21:39 sm even a modest amount can permit maintainer(s) to spend more time on it. That could be me, or me and a partner (interested ?), or some kind of creative transparent setup that rewards all contributors
21:40 Heffalump I have a full-time job, my work isn't fungible :-)
21:40 sm that's kind of what I figured
21:41 sm I have more flexibility there
21:41 Heffalump how much time do you think it needs?
21:45 sm the more time, the better it gets,
21:46 sm to keep up basic maintenance, reliability, oversight of activity, security etc. could probably be 8h/week
21:47 Heffalump hmm, I can't imagine generating income to pay for that very easily
21:47 sm another 8h/week perhaps to keep it installable, approachable for developers, and fix a bug now and then
21:48 sm it's not going to pay for that at market rates any time soon, sure
21:52 sm but with even minor FOSS-bounty-level funding, I and maybe others might be able to justify a bit more consistent time
21:52 sm at least, it should be quite possible to cover hosting costs
21:53 Heffalump I'd certainly be happy to help out with admin, but stepping from one person managing a machine to multiple people does add quite a bit of coordination overhead
21:53 sm and even if you don't, it changes the expectations in a good way; freeloading users can no longer complain about anything :)
21:54 sm I appreciate that, that's another scenario, where the community takes more ownership
21:55 Heffalump I was working on getting deployment scripted with nixops, but I'm still not very comfortable with the nix ecosystem so it was proving hard going
21:56 sm it's fairly easy for the community ops approach to go wrong, I fear
21:56 sm given sufficient support it can be done well
21:57 sm a stable team of 2-3 of us is an intermediate possibility
21:59 Heffalump for hosting, I think my (part owned) colo machine has capacity for a 2GB VM, as an alternative to paying. But Linode may have admin advantages that outweigh that benefit.
22:00 sm yeah the admin advantages are really valuable, especially with collaborating/changing ops
22:01 sm the nightly backups, the irc support, the automated everything..
22:08 sm given that darcs is not the focus of any of our lives, and many people seem to be getting value, I feel money should enter the picture one way or other. It will bring focus.
22:10 sm wikipedia-style fund drives are one way. That's easiest but sounds no fun at all.
22:11 sm charging for private repos and excess resource usage, github-style is another. That's a lot of work but more fun, and also discourages abuse
22:12 Heffalump how does excess resource usage get measured?
22:12 Heffalump I mean by what metrics
22:12 sm disk usage would be simplest
22:19 Heffalump is that visible anywhere now, or is it just you running du?
22:20 sm just me running du
22:20 sm I check it once in a while
22:20 sm or when my disk fills up
22:22 sm which, like so many other things about darcs hub, is not very satisfactory :)
22:42 sm night Heffalump, thanks for the chat
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22:45 SolarAquarion hey
22:45 SolarAquarion how do i do darcs describe and what not
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23:31 povman Heffalump: Cheers, found it (although Paris would be a massive commitment coming from Australia!)

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