Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #darcs, 2015-07-08

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Time Nick Message
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08:35 notdan uh-oh, got some serious patch dependent on  a draft patch
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08:55 notdan sm: ping
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17:48 gh_ hi
18:00 gh_ so I may release 2.10.1 in a couple of hours
18:04 notdan cool :D
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18:34 sm hey notdan
18:36 sm gh_: awesome, frequent releases++
18:38 notdan I wanted to talk to you about merging the -local branch into darcsden upstream
18:39 notdan But before I forget, what is your view of  changing the HUB cabal flag into a runtime --hub switch?
18:40 sm notdan: so the HUB stuff really doesn't belong in darcsden, it's specific to the on and only darcs hub site. I included it only for my convenience IIRC
18:40 sm why is a runtime switch better ?
18:45 notdan I wanted to give a more universal account of tuning the frontpage, since it is both done in the case of darcs hub and darcsden-local
18:46 notdan so basically just less code duplication, more uniform way of abstracting things
18:48 * sm looks.. at this point it simply toggles a different front page, doesn't it
18:48 Heffalump sm: put it another way, given that it is there, a runtime flag is a nicer implementation. It fits in better with the -local work, and it makes it easier for other people changing darcsden to check they haven't broken it.
18:49 sm I agree, except I feel it shouldn't be too easy to accidentally run in hub mode, which potentially could do impactful stuff (it doesn't now, but it could)
18:49 sm notdan: does local darcsden have/need a customizable front page ? I didn't think it would
18:53 notdan Yeah, I wanted to implement this so I can run it instead of darcsweb/gitweb
18:53 notdan Right now it's only the front page that is customized, but we also need additional interface adjusments (disabling certain buttons, adding new buttons)
18:54 notdan eg: disapbling renaming repositories and adding a button to show unrecorded changes
18:54 notdan *disabling
18:55 sm "add a hub/HUB flag, off by default, for enabling hub.darcs.net-specific customisations. hub.darcs.net will tend to acquire custom features not appropriate for generic darcsden (eg a custom front page), which we would still like to be version-controlled and viewable/hackable by the community. For ease of maintenance and to minimise divergence, I will include some of these in the main darcsden repo, disabled by default."
18:56 sm what Heffalump said. Alright then, let's keep it in the repo
18:56 sm it seems right now to do just one things: select the different front page which lists users and repos and includes the latest rendering of doc/FRONTPAGE.md
18:57 notdan anyway, we don't have to get rid of -DHUB if you don't want to; we can also wait -- it's not crucial and is changed easily
18:58 notdan the only thing we need to discuss pretty much is what happens when we build darcsden with -DHUB and run it with --local
18:58 sm it's fine to get rid of it. I wouldn't have used a flag if I knew how to eg just install a custom template and get the custom front page
18:59 sm maybe I was anticipating more code divergence between hub and local darcsden in future
19:00 sm eg, people installing local darcsden might want to not depend on couchdb, ssh etc.
19:00 notdan yeah, that is a very good point
19:00 sm but the cabal flag isn't currently used that way
19:00 notdan and frankly, I don't know what to do about it :(
19:01 sm how do you mean, what's the problem ?
19:01 Heffalump hub might end up with special treatment for the darcs repos temporarily as we migrate over from roundup at some point
19:03 notdan sm: dependence on couchdb and friends
19:03 sm yeah. There's always likely to be some special stuff for darcs hub. Some of that probably should not go in the the repo, and some should
19:03 sm notdan: oh right. Well we want to be able to run without couchdb. I thought you were taking care of that :)
19:04 notdan fsm: well yeah, atm it does not *use* couchdb, but it formally depends on it :]
19:06 sm ok, so that's a good use for a cabal flag right ? We can depend on couchdb when that flag is true, and have it false by default (and marked as manual, so cabal won't toggle it automatically)
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19:09 sm (hopefully I understood you)
19:10 Heffalump so then if certain things aren't compiled in, certain flags will be disabled, e.g. no --hub without -fcouchdb
19:10 notdan Yeah, I tried it, but it would hellish to test changes :(
19:10 Heffalump I'd be sort of inclined to have them default to true though, to make testing easier by default.
19:10 notdan ooh Heffalump
19:11 Heffalump hello :-)
19:11 notdan if we have both  compile time flags AND runtime flags we can allow users to cherry-pick features/dependencies and be able to test everything
19:11 notdan altho.. hm
19:12 notdan no, we would still have to test out every possible combination of compile time flags, because that's how CPP works :(
19:12 Heffalump I think having both kinds of flags for the same settings would be confusing. But yes, compile time flags for dependencies and runtime flags for behaviour, is sort of what I'm suggesting.
19:12 Heffalump well, I don't think we need be too paranoid about testing every configuration.
19:15 sm the simpler the better, clearly
19:16 f-a gigantic OT, has anyone tried http://www.well-typed.com/blog/2015/07/hackage-security-alpha/
19:17 Heffalump not me, but sounds nice
19:20 notdan So, after 10.1 is released the download .zip functionality could be mered into darcsden (provided you want it). It's kinda orthogonal to all the other stuff, but I figure it's a starting point for merging the -local branch.
19:21 notdan If you are up for that, I will try to create a separate branch that depends on darcs-2.10.1 and that should be mergable easily into upstream.
19:22 notdan also there are a couple of patches at http://hub.darcs.net/co-dan/darcsden that should be good to go
19:22 sm notdan: are those addressed to me ?
19:23 notdan sorry, yes
19:23 sm I guess so, let me just think a little more about customisation first - what are the things we want ?
19:23 sm For one I'd like to be able to have arbitrary custom site-specific stuff running on darcs hub - styles, content, and functionality - that isn't active by default for every person installing darcsden (including things that aren't in the repo)
19:23 notdan yeah sure- those patches are not related to that
19:23 sm For two we'd like to minimise divergence between hub and local code, and make it easy for darcs hub contributors to see and test and demo changes
19:24 sm We'd also like to provide the simplest/easiest cabal dependencies to folks installing darcsden for local use
19:25 sm And for maintainability/testability/installability, I'd like as few cabal flags/CPP flags/alternate code paths as we can get away with
19:32 sm I think those are all the things we talked about just now
19:34 sm So should we: use a off-by-default runtime flag or config file option instead of conditional compilation as you said, to activate hub-ish styles and content for testing; and comment out the cabal hub flag for now, perhaps to be used in future if needed to lighten dependencies
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19:35 sm and anything really hub-specific that shouldn't be in the repo, I'll just manage locally
19:40 sm re zip downloads: ok, I guess we should make sure darcsden builds nicely with darcs 2.10.1, wait for the release, and I'll make darcsden require it, and we can merge the zip stuff after review and demo
19:41 notdan re: flags; I don't  know whats better, so I support whatever Ganesh says :]
19:41 notdan sm: that sounds like a good plan!
19:42 notdan I will make sure that it builds nicely
19:42 sm great, and we can look at the patches/demo whenever
19:42 sm eg push them to co-dan/darcsden
19:42 sm do you have an instance running ? I forgot
19:43 sm what about command-line flags vs. config file options, do we have a policy on which to use for what ?
19:43 sm Heffalump: I think we now use config file for most things and only minimal CLI flags ?
19:45 notdan sm: there are some patches there, the only featureful one is an addition of the "directory changes", which is essentially like filechanges
19:46 notdan unfortunately I don't have a public instance running :(
19:46 sm ok, is that because you don't have a place to run it, or just time ?
19:48 notdan I tried to run it on my hosting provider, but they run debian old-stable, and it's a pain in the ass to compile haskell programms for that platform.
19:49 notdan But I want to do it eventually. We want to have something like http://git.hcoop.net but for darcs
19:49 notdan I should just get a very cheap VPS somewhere
19:49 sm huh.. does installing a new ghc & cabal binary on debian old-stable not work well ?
19:53 notdan the glibc version is too old apparently
19:54 sm bummer. Is a newer glib available for installation ? I seem to remember doing that once
19:59 notdan Not that I know of. To be honest, I am not very good at Linux
19:59 sm it's not a showstopper - I will build your latest at hub-dev.darcs.net for preview - but live demos speed things up
20:00 sm ok, if I remember out any more I'll let you know and happy to walk you through the ghc/cabal setup
20:00 sm so just let me know where to pull the zip patches from when ready
20:01 sm re the four pending patches.. http://hub.darcs.net/co-dan/darcsden/patch/20150620122412-21ae5 is this a fixup of one we talked about ? I think so
20:02 sm actually almost all of these look familiar, I thought I merged them
20:02 sm I guess not
20:02 sm if they build and tests pass, I'm ready to merge
20:09 notdan yay
20:10 sm do they ? :)
20:10 * sm <- lazy
20:10 notdan OK, they used to, but I think you might have pulled something since I last check
20:11 notdan let me give it another spin and I will report to you
20:11 sm great
20:12 notdan Man, paypal.com gotta be like the worst website in the world
20:12 * sm nods
20:12 notdan Now I remember why I didn't buy a digitalocean vps
20:13 notdan holy crap, now they want to charge my card in.. pounds?
20:13 notdan ah, sorry for OT
20:13 sm if you get around to trying latest GHC binary again on your oldstable, let me know the error you get
20:15 sm or for fun, try the latest stack binary which will try to install GHC for you
20:20 notdan aaaand digitalocean locked my account
20:20 notdan not my day
20:20 Heffalump maerwald: true
20:20 Heffalump sorry, sm, not maerwald
20:22 Heffalump notdan: I could probably organise you a VM (spare capacity on a colo box I part own)
20:26 sm and if not, would linode work ? https://www.linode.com/pricing
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