Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #darcs, 2015-10-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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15:32 bfrank hi, what do you think of pijul?
15:57 maerwald bfrank: imo, the success of a VCS doesn't primarily depend on the performance/algorithms, but on the collaboration platforms (e.g. web UIs) and how these integrate with the workflow
15:58 maerwald if GitHub had decided CVS was better... it would be CVSHub and everyone would be using it :P (I am exaggarating)
15:58 maerwald (CVS is terrible, never use it)
15:59 dolio I'm not sure that's exactly true, either.
15:59 maerwald dolio: what exactly do you mean?
16:00 dolio If github had chosen CVS, there would be no reason for people to use github over everything that was established at the time.
16:00 maerwald well yeah, probably
16:00 maerwald because CVS doesn't allow a sane workflow
16:01 maerwald but the low-level tools are not enough, that's my point... and IMO, they are not even the main reason people use these tools
16:01 dolio I would say that what allowed github to succeed is that distributed version control is so much better than CVS and subversion. So there is a reason to switch.
16:01 dolio And git just happened to be what got used.
16:01 maerwald most people don't know a fraction of what git tools can do and don't need it... it's the collaboration platforms like gerrit and github that make these an actual success
16:01 dolio Even though it's pretty much the worst DVCS.
16:02 dolio Being used for Linux didn't hurt.
16:02 maerwald well, gerrit is often used in non-dvcs way
16:03 dolio Yeah, I agree the actual tool isn't that important.
16:03 dolio Mainly my point is that the paradigm shift is what was important.
16:03 maerwald saying: gerrit lets you use git in a way, which git wasn't even intended for
16:03 dolio So pijul won't somehow beat git just by being a better version of the same thing.
16:04 maerwald yeah
16:04 maerwald even mercurial mostly failed... the only notable projects using it are python and facebook afair
16:04 dolio You need a paradigm shift to something fundamentally different to overcome all the other inertia.
16:05 dolio Vim was using it, but then google code closed, and I think they moved to github.
16:06 dolio Although that seems like a ton of work.
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16:41 bfrank well, I meant more from a performance standpoint, is there anything that darcs could learn from pujil to make it faster to use?
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17:16 pointfree I feel we need a dvcs protocol so simple that people write one-off implementations of it in Javascript. I think it will need to be far more general and broadly applicable than just source control for programmers in order to move past git. It will need to provide facilities for social networking before it can generate network effects as a consequence.
17:16 maerwald sounds too broad to me to work
17:32 pointfree That's just what I think would be necessary in order to succeed git.
17:35 maerwald I think you just need a better collaboration platform that forces you to not use git. People don't care about the low-level tools.
17:36 maerwald or the protocol behind it
17:38 maerwald and they also don't care if there are multiple low-level tools behind it or just one with a common protocol
17:38 maerwald those are useful ideas indeed, but not what makes it succeed, imo
18:05 Heffalump bfrank: pijul has a much better way of handling conflicts than darcs, and we want to take that for darcs too
18:11 dolio What does OCaml use for file names?
18:11 dolio I wonder if they're much more efficient than String.
18:12 dolio You've mentioned that darcs spends a lot of time doing stuff with file names, no?
18:12 dolio I guess that's probably not a factor in that commit benchmark.
18:28 lelit even if I don't use hg, calling it a failure is a bit gross, isn't it? mozilla and facebook alone are pretty big and apparently happy users...
18:29 lelit https://code.facebook.com/posts/218678814984400/scaling-mercurial-at-facebook/
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20:59 Topic for #darcs is now http://darcs.net/ | logs: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/darcs/ | darcs 2.10.0 is out http://darcs.net/Releases/2.10
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