Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #darcs, 2016-03-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 mizu_no_oto joined #darcs
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06:15 Heffalump fr33domlover/sm: you both have forks of ssh on darcs hub which add quite different looking stack.yaml files. Does one or both of you want to be responsible for maintaining the file?
06:36 Heffalump fr33domlover: your patch that moves the SSH code under the Network folder doesn't use 'darcs mv' so will break history - I think we'll need to rebase your branch to clean that up
06:36 Heffalump I'm happy to do that, or to guide you through it.
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12:02 fr33domlover Heffalump, sm's stack.yml uses original dep versions. Mine uses less extra deps because it uses more versions from stackage LTS
12:03 fr33domlover since I did dep version changes before adding stack.yml there
12:03 fr33domlover Heffalump, I never used darcs mv! Thanks for mentioning it, I always just mv files manually, didn't know that command makes a difference
12:04 fr33domlover And yes, can you plz explain how to fix it? :)
13:36 sm +1 for fr33domlover's stack config
13:45 sm fr33domlover: but could you add http://hub.darcs.net/simon/ssh/browse/stack.yaml#38-43 which makes it work with homebrew
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16:46 * fr33domlover doesn't know what to say about sm's suggestion because 0sx is a proprietary operating system by app1e...
16:53 sm fr33domlover: uh.. don't we want OSX users to be able to use and hack on darcs/darcsden/ssh too ?
16:57 fr33domlover sm, ummm.. i think we want much more that they switch to a free software operating system like some GNU/Linux-libre distribution... i just feel uncomfortable to say "this line makes the code work for X" because it suggests the X is legitimate and acceptable, which isn't the case with 0sx :-/
16:58 fr33domlover it's not personal, just the way i feel about it...
16:58 fr33domlover either way that change can be added on top of mine
16:58 sm I don't think that hard-line GNU mission is part of darcs, darcsden or ssh's mission. Two of them just happen to use the GPL
16:58 teratorn like the darcs Rewrite in C: This time, It’s Personal
16:59 teratorn a re-write in Rust might actually make a lot of sense
16:59 teratorn I can’t recommend darcs at work because it’s too slow
17:00 fr33domlover sm, it has nothing to do with GNU, just with software freedom being the right thing and app1e's way of making and distributing 0sx being wrong...
17:00 teratorn for repos with many many thousands of files and large binary assets (which admittedly belong in separate dedicarted repos)
17:00 fr33domlover teratorn, what about repos which aren't like that? :P
17:01 fr33domlover how does one even get to have so many files in a repo
17:01 teratorn fr33domlover: good rhetoric, but the world needs, demands and supplies source-code-obfuscated code as a matter of necessity, not right or wrong. there is simply nobody there to write the software that people need in a free/libre fashion, and nobody to pay for it if they can’t leverage the resulting so-called intellectual property
17:01 fr33domlover even if i combine all the code i ever wrote i doubt it will be more than what darcs can manage :p
17:02 teratorn fr33domlover: how’s that Libre replacement for AutoCAD going?
17:02 sm fr33domlover: I think you are proposing that the ssh package adopt your personal policy, which you should discuss with the maintainer
17:02 sm (Heffalump)
17:02 fr33domlover sm, i'm not proposing a change
17:02 fr33domlover it was you suggesting those lines in stack.yml :P
17:03 sm you're proposing that ssh explicitly exclude support for common but non-Free operating systems, that has never been the case before
17:04 sm it might be a good idea, but it should not be done unilaterally
17:04 fr33domlover gtg now, back later to continue this discussion
17:04 Heffalump I'm not going to be the maintainer for stack.yaml, so you two figure it out between you :-)
17:04 fr33domlover o.
17:04 teratorn fr33domlover: we only have one big perforce library
17:06 sm Heffalump: ha, way to abdicate your responsibility :)
17:07 sm I've expressed myself, you ssh devs decide what you want to do
17:09 Heffalump ok, so I guess that leaves fr33domlover as the stack.yaml maintainer, so he gets to decide
17:13 gh_ joined #darcs
17:14 gh_ hi
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18:38 Heffalump teratorn: Pijul, whose approach to conflict handle we want to adopt/integrate with, is written in Rust
18:39 teratorn do it
18:40 Heffalump darcs relies pretty heavily on GADTs which I don't think Rust supports, but actually Pijul's representation means we don't need to track contexts quite so carefully as in Darcs. So maybe the end result will be more Rust than Haskell.
18:44 teratorn Heffalump: oh I didn’t realize I wasn’t in #rust anymore… ://
18:44 teratorn Heffalump: that is excellent news!
18:44 dolio I thought it was written in ocaml.
18:44 teratorn Heffalump: I know Haskell is cool and the bee’s knees and everything… but it’s not made for mortal programmers, sorry :/
18:45 dolio Rust is at least as complicated as Haskell.
18:46 sm dolio: it seems they went ocaml -> scala -> haskell -> rust, more details in the FAQ
18:46 dolio That's a lot of rewriting.
18:46 Heffalump it was at the prototype stage
18:46 Heffalump I think they're reasonably settled on Rust now
18:47 sm I'm curious about the cabeats at http://pijul.org/faq.html -> Did you solve the “exponential merge problem” darcs has?
18:47 sm caveats
18:47 sm ie, what they mean in practice
18:48 teratorn dolio: I disagree completely!
18:49 teratorn Haskell is way way more intimidating than Rust for ordinally mortal procedural programmers
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19:22 Heffalump sm: well, no 'darcs replace' is obvious
19:22 Heffalump I don't think the one about inverting them matters at all
19:23 Heffalump darcs uses inverses heavily internally, but they don't really matter to the external presentation.
19:23 Heffalump though it might complicate integration of course
19:24 sm Heffalump: I didn't understand "In other words, Pijul works in polynomial time for all patches that systems other than darcs know of. " or how it relates to not having replace
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19:43 Heffalump "patches that systems other than darcs know of", i.e. hunk patches
19:44 Heffalump the conflict algorithm in Pijul is for a specific type of patches, and they don't include replace patches
19:58 dolio Oh, bummer.
20:14 fr33domlover sm, I'm removing the HsOpenSSL dependency anyway
20:14 fr33domlover so that solves our problem, I hope
20:28 owst joined #darcs
20:48 sm even better
21:10 Heffalump fr33domlover: are you happy to maintain the stack file, i.e. update it when necessary etc?
21:16 fr33domlover Heffalump, i can give it a try. i mean, the stack file it useful only when you build ssh from the darcs repo, right? so updates are needed when people have issues with that build
21:16 fr33domlover as long as i'm around i don't mind fixing those issues if/when they happen :P
21:17 sm it's probably needed only if "stack init" doesn't reliably create one that works
21:17 sm it didn't before, but it might now after your changes
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22:11 Heffalump fr33domlover: https://parenz.wordpress.com/2015/07/28/darcs-rebase-by-example/ has a good intro to using rebase
22:12 Heffalump essentially, suspend all the patches after the one that should be a 'move', then fix that up, then unsuspend the patches and resolve any conflicts if necessary
22:13 Heffalump fixing up the move: probably simplest to use darcs amend --unrecord to unrecord the add and removes, then run 'darcs mv', then darcs amend-record to put the moves back into the patch
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22:26 fr33domlover sm, not yet. there is still an extra-dep. but i may replace it with cryptonite, and then it will really be a clean stack.yml
22:26 fr33domlover Heffalump, thanks :)
22:27 fr33domlover i'm building gitit/darcsit, getting this annoying error: http://paste.rel4tion.org/297
22:28 fr33domlover anyone has a clue what i can do about it? :-/
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23:28 sm I think stack init can figure out extra-deps
23:29 sm I'd ask #haskell stack about the network error, too
23:29 sm I mean #haskell-stack
23:54 fr33domlover sm, already solved that by some rm -rf of stack snapshots
23:55 fr33domlover but now i have a new error :-/
23:55 sm fr33domlover: ah.. removing stack snapshots tends to break things, unless you remove them all
23:56 fr33domlover sm, i removed them all because some happstack TH module somehow looked for a library in the dir of the wrong lts, dunno why
23:56 sm ok, that should be fine then
23:57 fr33domlover http://paste.rel4tion.org/298

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