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All times shown according to UTC.
| Time | Nick | Message |
|---|---|---|
| 00:01 | lispy left #darcs | |
| 00:02 | sm | how long should it take for a sent patch to show up on the tracker ? |
| 00:03 | are they moderated ? | |
| 00:04 | mornfall | I don't think they are. |
| 00:04 | zooko joined #darcs | |
| 00:07 | sm | untrustworthy tools., an energy leak |
| 00:08 | how's keeping patches in the tracker working out ? is it providing a lot of value ? | |
| 00:09 | mornfall | I think it turned out for the better. |
| 00:33 | sm_ joined #darcs | |
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| 00:35 | sm left #darcs | |
| 00:35 | sm_ is now known as sm | |
| 00:37 | lispy joined #darcs | |
| 00:37 | sm | I sent a patch to both patches and darcs-users, and there's absolutely nothing going on; I think there's moderation in there somewhere |
| 00:38 | mornfall | Might be that Eric has to whitelist you. |
| 00:39 | Igloo | Could be a message size thing too |
| 00:50 | lispy | Igloo: that's disabled |
| 00:50 | Or at least, it was when I was list moderator | |
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| 01:01 | mornfall | Igloo: Can you point me at a small OF repo somewhere public? |
| 01:01 | (http://) | |
| 01:04 | Igloo | Will something in http://darcs.haskell.org/ghc-6.12/packages/ do? |
| 01:05 | integer-simple is probably the smallest, but I'm not sure how small you want | |
| 01:06 | mornfall | Yes that works, thanks. |
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| 01:11 | sshc_ is now known as sshc | |
| 01:18 | mornfall | I don't actually see issue1942. |
| 01:18 | lispy | sm: Well, I tried to investigate your issue with the ml, but I no longer know the password |
| 01:18 | mornfall | Well, it is downloading, but only tags, not actual patches. |
| 01:19 | sm | thanks lispy |
| 01:20 | Igloo | I haven't tried to reproduce it |
| 01:21 | Have you tried reproducing it with http://darcs.haskell.org/cabal/ ? | |
| 01:22 | mornfall | Igloo: I tried couple repos from your list and every single patch it downloads is a tag. |
| 01:22 | So while annoying, it's not *so* bad. | |
| 01:23 | It compounds with high-latency servers (like darcs.haskell.org likes to be), though. | |
| 01:23 | lispy | Igloo: BTW, where are you guys on the formal stuff? Last I knew, you had some coq proofs of bits and you were investigating some other proof assistant (Isabelle? Agda?) |
| 01:24 | Igloo | mornfall: Oh, have you tried pulling into both an OF and a hashed repo? |
| 01:25 | lispy: I was looking at Isabelle, but I've gone back to coq for now | |
| 01:25 | Heffalump | mornfall: patch373 and adventure are going to conflict badly :-( |
| 01:25 | lispy | Igloo: I ask because when I listened to larrytheliquid's talk about Agda (the one he gave at the scottish ruby con), he mentioned somewhere that Agda has an FFI for calling Haskell. So that actually makes Agda kind of attractive here. Now, I realize we probably want to extract code instead of using Agda, but for doing proof of concept stuff it sounds like an interesting feature. |
| 01:26 | * Igloo | isn't interested in code ATM |
| 01:27 | lispy | Igloo: yeah, I get that |
| 01:27 | Igloo: I was actually thinking about things a bit side-ways to be fair | |
| 01:27 | Heffalump | also, what does "move the preferences system into IO where it belongs" mean? |
| 01:28 | mornfall | Igloo: let me try with OF -> OF (I was trying OF -> hashed) |
| 01:29 | Heffalump: See my reply to Eric's review. | |
| 01:31 | Igloo: As expected it is the same. | |
| 01:31 | Igloo | Oh. Well it certainly seems to download patches from the cabal repo for Dmitry |
| 01:33 | mornfall | Hmm. Indeed. |
| 01:34 | It breaks for me with cabal repo, too. | |
| 01:35 | Igloo | Unclean tags, maybe? |
| 01:36 | mornfall | Possibly. |
| 01:36 | Igloo | Or maybe all patches since last tag |
| 01:36 | There probably aren't any in the 6.12 repos | |
| 01:37 | mornfall | Right, I didn't notice that. |
| 01:38 | lispy | Heffalump: the thing I find confusing is the "return . unsafePerformIO", all I can figure is that the return is not IO. So then, mornfall must have removed the primitive for changeprefs from ReadableDirectory and WritableDirectory |
| 01:38 | Heffalump: but I haven't read the patch | |
| 01:38 | mornfall | lispy: There never was a primitive for changeprefs. |
| 01:38 | It was just completely hokey. | |
| 01:39 | lispy | mornfall: I guess I don't get why you needed to add "return $! unsafePerformIO" (everything else on that line seems to be the same) |
| 01:40 | >> - when b $ changePrefval p f t | |
| 01:41 | >> + when b $ return $! unsafePerformIO (changePrefval p f t) | |
| 01:41 | You must have made that change for a reason, but I'm failing to grok it | |
| 01:41 | mornfall | lispy: Half of the stuff in Darcs.Repository.Prefs was in the WriteableDirectory monad, and not in IO. |
| 01:42 | lispy: Writing into _darcs. | |
| 01:42 | Which breaks the contract on the monads. | |
| 01:43 | lispy | mornfall: okay, so if I take your word on that part, I still don't see how that is related to unsafePerformIO |
| 01:43 | mornfall | lispy: Well, patch application is not in IO. Changing preferences is. |
| 01:44 | (I have moved the things in Prefs to IO, if that wasn't clear enough.) | |
| 01:47 | Heffalump | I'm not really any the wiser from that. preferences are a patch type. Why is forcing application of that into IO a good idea? |
| 01:47 | mornfall | Heffalump: Well, applying setpref will change things inside _darcs. |
| 01:48 | Heffalump | which is weird, and could be changed, but not to an implicit side-effect |
| 01:48 | mornfall | Heffalump: It just so happened, that the WriteableDirectory allowed you to change things inside _darcs. |
| 01:48 | Well, *some* WriteableDirectory instances did. | |
| 01:50 | Heffalump | I'm still lost. WriteableDirectory is supposed to be an abstraction over a repository tree, right? Previously it was capable of being simulated purely (AFAIK), and now it's not. |
| 01:51 | mornfall | Heffalump: Well, no non-IO instance will ever let you look into _darcs. So the guard never fires. |
| 01:52 | And arguably, the IO instance shouldn't let you either. | |
| 01:53 | * Heffalump | goes back to bed, but I don't think this can ever be the right approach. WriteableDirectory could just insist that any instances model the prefs separately, outside the FS tree. |
| 01:53 | mornfall | That's nonsensical. The pref system is completely broken. The commutes are incorrect, too. |
| 01:54 | I am not saying this is the right approach. But at least it doesn't pretend to be correct. | |
| 01:55 | As I said in that review reply I pointed to before, I think that applying ChangePref patches should be a noop in the Apply Prim instance. | |
| 01:56 | And we should just scan the applied patches post-fact in pull. | |
| 01:58 | (And carry out their effects in IO.) | |
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| 03:30 | Topic for #darcs is now can't talk? see -> | http://wiki.darcs.net/IRC | http://darcs.net/ | latest is 2.4.4 | sprint! http://wiki.darcs.net/Sprints/2010-10 | |
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| 05:15 | Heffalump | I don't understand why it's nonsensical to just model the prefs separately. In a simulated tree, just keep a separate data structure to manipulate. In a real tree, just poke _darcs/... since that's where the prefs do actually live. |
| 05:19 | * lispy | thinks that Heffalump is right |
| 05:19 | Heffalump | how are the commutes broken, btw? |
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| 05:37 | lispy | Heffalump: so that part was stated (and I think documented) by David years ago |
| 05:37 | Heffalump: it would be nice to review it, but one that happens is the pref that is active is the most recent one | |
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| 07:04 | mornfall | Heffalump: commutes are broken because changeprefs to the same value commute freely |
| 07:04 | Heffalump: It's nonsense to model the prefs because they are a broken concept and it is definitely not worth complicating all the patch-application-related code for them. | |
| 07:09 | twb left #darcs | |
| 07:21 | mornfall | What you could do, if you really wanted, was to add mChangePref to ApplyMonad and make its default implementation be const $ return () and just never implement it (and keep it in IO only). |
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| 08:48 | kowey | still around, sm? |
| 08:49 | @tell sm I don't see you in the moderation queue (and you've been sending stuff for quite a while) | |
| 08:49 | lambdabot | Consider it noted. |
| 08:50 | mornfall | Morning Eric. |
| 08:50 | kowey | @tell sm very sorry to point you to this new-darcs-hacker stuff, but could we just double-check the stuff in http://wiki.darcs.net/Development/Patches ? maybe some config change lately? |
| 08:50 | lambdabot | Consider it noted. |
| 08:53 | kowey | and good morning! |
| 08:54 | I was excited because I thought I'd found a workflow for submitted (tagging the context and then pushing --from-tag), but it turns out we don't support range matchers in push/send/pull | |
| 08:55 | mornfall | kowey: I think all reasonable solutions will revolve around a --bundle or similar matcher (--hash-list file, whatever). |
| 08:55 | kowey: --bundle is good because you don't need an extra file | |
| 08:55 | kowey | yeah |
| 08:55 | it may even generalise well | |
| 08:56 | mornfall | Well, bundle is basically a [PatchInfo] interspersed with patch data. |
| 08:56 | So you could have --bundle that scans for the PatchInfos and ignores the inbetween stuff, so it'd generalise to partial context files too, kind of. | |
| 08:57 | (Well, it'd actually generalise to a full context file too, so you could say pull --context... kind of.) | |
| 08:58 | The --bundle/--context difference is if you take the patchinfos before Context:\n\n or after. | |
| 08:58 | kowey | right... so the kind of generality I was hoping for was, for example, the fact that matchers do something sensible everywhere, or interactive mode |
| 08:59 | sort of a darcs-ish generality | |
| 09:00 | ie. few concepts but widespread and which combine very well with each other | |
| 09:00 | mornfall | But --bundle/--context is a regular matcher. |
| 09:01 | match everything whose patchinfo is in this list | |
| 09:01 | kowey | so we'd enable it wherever we enable --context |
| 09:01 | mornfall | I.e. just like --match 'hash x or hash y or hash z' |
| 09:01 | kowey | hmm, darcs get --bundle |
| 09:01 | mornfall | (--matches actually) |
| 09:01 | kowey | oh actually, darcs get --bundle would do what we'd want |
| 09:02 | darcs get --bundle /tmp/foo.dpatch http://darcs.net/submitted | |
| 09:02 | mornfall | It definitely seem sso. |
| 09:02 | -s | |
| 09:02 | +s :) | |
| 09:03 | kowey | :-) s! s!s ! - yeah pointing that out (well, a second time to that it sunk in) makes me happier |
| 09:10 | mornfall | Btw. I don't think we currently allow pull --context. |
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