Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #fuel-dev, 2015-10-17

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17:06 openstackstatus NOTICE: Gerrit will be offline for project renames starting at 1800 UTC.
17:06 Topic for #fuel-dev is now Gerrit will be offline for project renames starting at 1800 UTC.
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18:26 angdraug aglarendil: holser: bogdando: xenolog: mattymo: https://review.openstack.org/236227
18:31 angdraug looks like fuel-ha-utils is finally going to find itself a proper upstream
18:35 Topic for #fuel-dev is now #fuel-dev Fuel dev docs http://docs.mirantis.com/fuel-dev/ | Paste here http://paste.openstack.org/ | IRC logs http://irclog.perlgeek.de/fuel-dev/ | gerrit traffic @ #fuel-tracker
18:35 openstackstatus NOTICE: Gerrit is back online. Github transfers are in progress and should be complete by 1900 UTC.
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19:33 salmon_ mihgen: can we talk here? :)
19:33 mihgen hey sure
19:33 salmon_ hi
19:33 salmon_ mihgen: "what if dependencies are not explicit.. ? For instance, you restart DB. And your dependent service doesn't have reconnects."
19:33 salmon_ mihgen: so you want to restart these services?
19:33 mihgen for others - topic of discussion https://etherpad.openstack.org/p/lcm-use-cases
19:34 salmon_ restart/reload
19:34 mihgen salmon_: this is a good question. I think we don't want to restart them
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19:34 mihgen ideally we need to require that service should be able to reconnect
19:35 salmon_ yeah, but you need to modify code of the service
19:35 mihgen but then we need to clearly specify all requirements to services.
19:36 salmon_ if you write fuel task you still need to specify ale depended services, if you create solar dependencies it's the same
19:37 salmon_ maybe systemd helps somehow here
19:38 mihgen I'm thinking abstract. Developers may create tasks which may have some dependencies, which are not set as dependencies in the graph
19:38 mihgen I think we had quite a several bugs in puppet manifests
19:39 mihgen so then question is how do you check it, or force a user to figure out all possible dependencies
19:39 mihgen so that tasks have only implicit deps
19:39 mihgen or what do you otherwise to mitigate a risk, that you execute half of the graph
19:39 mihgen because you think you should not retrigger those tasks, as they should not depent, but they are in fact
19:40 mihgen I thought first that you re-trrigger all the subtree from the node which you need to update
19:42 salmon_ well, I think it's impossible to predict all scenarios. We need a list of actions which we will support and test them. Other actions you need to check alone, health checker should help here
19:43 mihgen salmon_: may be it could be verified by CI somehow.. ? When you check real dependencies of tasks somehow?..
19:44 salmon_ some  fuzzy testing would be awsome, but it's hard to validate the end result
19:48 mihgen salmon_: yep... In solar, if you changed one node, how do you check what do you need to retrigger? Do you caclulate delta in input data for other dependent nodes, and if delta != 0, then you trigger update of that node?
19:51 salmon_ mihgen: we don't "change a node". You can change some resource on node like in this most popular case mysql password change. Is this what you mean?
19:51 mihgen under node, I meant node in the graph. Basically task or whatever you have there
19:52 mihgen yes, like you change mysql pass. how do you calculate what has to be retriggered?
19:54 salmon_ ok, I see. You have two options. One is to say for example that glance-registry is using this password. Then when password changes in mysql it also changes in glance-registry and it's marked to be updated. Update can mean anything, in this case probably just restart.
19:55 salmon_ second option is to say: If anything changes in mysql do something in this resource
19:59 salmon_ changing password is the easiest example because we always know who is using it
20:01 mihgen salmon_: it's like in chef, notify and subscribe
20:03 mihgen https://docs.chef.io/resources.html, search for notify
20:04 salmon_ mihgen: almost, because we may just react to password change and if other not relevant option changes, like cache size, we don't care.
20:04 salmon_ we support both cases. Any change and specific change
20:05 ogelbukh there's a model of provides-requires in taskflow lib
20:05 ogelbukh a task 'provides' something, which other tasks might 'require'
20:05 ogelbukh for example, sql credentials
20:06 ogelbukh maybe we could have something similar in terms of graph nodes?
20:06 ogelbukh i.e. resources
20:07 ogelbukh I think 'provides' is not exactly right term here, but I hope you got the idea
20:08 ogelbukh unfortunately, this only works for explicit dependencies
20:10 salmon_ ogelbukh: yes, something like this but as I can see it's dynamic. Some kind of discovery?
20:12 ogelbukh in TF, you specify requires, and task engine finds if anything provides what you require
20:13 salmon_ what if value is provided by more than one "thing" ?
20:15 ogelbukh I recall it yields an error
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20:15 salmon_ oh, that's good :)
20:18 ogelbukh you have to specify uniq name to your 'provides' :)
20:18 ogelbukh well, tf is relatively simple tool
20:19 ogelbukh mistral is the next level of it, as far as I understand it
20:19 ogelbukh again, it's more task- than resource-oriented
20:20 salmon_ mihgen: the closest example to what solar is doing with resource dependencies is terraform https://terraform.io/intro/getting-started/dependencies.html
20:21 salmon_ ogelbukh: yeah, TF seems to be much more mature now. Last time I checked it about year ago
20:24 ogelbukh a year ago we successfully used it for pumphouse
20:24 ogelbukh I believe it developed since then
20:25 salmon_ hmm, or more. There was discussion about using it in nova
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20:47 bookwar_ i need help with fuel-tasklib repository. Anyone knows it's current status? It got deprecated by today's migration, but it appears we still have active job on CI for it. Can I simply remove this job or should we restore the repository?
20:49 bookwar the job here runs test against fuel-library code https://ci.fuel-infra.org/job/verify-fuel-library-tasks/5879/
20:53 mihgen we need someone from fuel-library to say for sure... aglarendil ^^ holser ^^
21:14 bookwar see https://review.openstack.org/#/c/236238/ and related bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/fuel/+bug/1507208
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22:42 bookwar awesome, no one actually created fuel-infra team and now we don't have any access to merge migration fixes to fuel repositories
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23:35 angdraug bookwar: chicken and egg problem
23:35 angdraug to create a fuel-infra team we'd have to have it mentioned in https://review.openstack.org/230195
23:35 angdraug but that's got blocked until after stackforge->openstack migration
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