Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #marpa, 2014-04-27

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Time Nick Message
00:58 ronsavage joined #marpa
17:23 jdurand joined #marpa
18:00 jeffreykegler joined #marpa
18:02 shadowpaste "jeffreykegler" at 99.118.54.20 pasted "How to test external shared libraries using Marpa::R2" (72 lines) at http://scsys.co.uk:8002/359500
18:03 jeffreykegler Marpa::R2 2.085_004 includes hooks that let you use the Marpa CPAN distribution for testing external shared libraries.
18:04 jeffreykegler As shadowpaste just said, I've written a document describing how to do this.
18:06 jeffreykegler Your testing of the new developer's release is appreciated!
18:24 jdurand Nice. I copy/pasted the shadowpaste to re-read it when I will work on that - many thanks
18:42 rns joined #marpa
18:43 rns left #marpa
18:48 rns joined #marpa
18:49 rns Marpa::R2 2.085_004 installed and runs ok for me (cpantesters reports sent).
18:50 rns As for libmarpa as shared library, this is certainly a nice thing to see.
18:51 jeffreykegler Jean-Damien has instigated this, so is due much of the thanks.
18:52 rns Sure, thanks Jean-Damien.
18:52 rns I've been following the developnment of this idea and it looks to me now that a CPAN dist Marpa::R2::libmarpa
18:52 jeffreykegler I've learned to wait until there is some kind of audience for what I do, if possible, because without a receptive audience ...
18:52 jeffreykegler my work can vanish into a black hole.
18:52 jeffreykegler And I also need feeback about the feature set, ....
18:52 jeffreykegler testings, etc., .etc.
18:54 rns sure, my point is just that all you'be said is much easier if one can just `cpan Marpa::R2::libmarpa` and see what's there.
18:55 rns I have to say though that building Marpa::R2::libmarpa off the same repo doesn't look like easy.
18:55 jeffreykegler On that, I waiting for libmarpa shared libraries to get some actual use.
18:55 jeffreykegler So we know things like what directories they wind up in, etc.
18:56 rns Sure. Good point about the audience, BTW.
18:56 jeffreykegler What I've just done is a big step toward Marpa::R2::libmarpa.  I'll take the next step once there are some libmarpa.so's sitting out there and in use.
18:58 jeffreykegler At some point, I could even switch over to where Marpa::R2 (or successor) by *default* tries to use a libmarpa shared library installed somewhere on your system.
18:58 jeffreykegler And the current static linking then becomes the option.
18:59 jeffreykegler Also, by that point, there may be other Marpa front ends, using these shared libraries, so it's no longer all about Marpa::R2.
19:00 rns Sounds good. And then perl may become just a vehicle to install and test libmarpa shared lib for use by a local frontend.
19:01 jeffreykegler Or not even install -- perhaps just a test suite.
19:02 rns Sure.
19:02 jeffreykegler By the way, I don't know of any other shared library which uses a CPAN module as its installer.  Is there one?
19:03 jeffreykegler All the cases I see, the CPAN module is a wrapper for something it assumes that you've already figured out how to install.
19:04 jeffreykegler Also, autoconf/libtool is an ungainly beast, but it does install shared libraries *portably*.
19:04 rns Same thing here. And the wrapped lib needs to installed separately and its location specified for the module to build.
19:05 rns Yet another thing pioneered by Marpa.
19:05 jeffreykegler Actually I think there was a Perl.org grant which covered some of the same ground.
19:06 jeffreykegler But I do believe I've wound up pioneering a lot of Perl build techniques -- something I had no ambition or even desire to do.
19:06 jeffreykegler Apparently nobody before has used a CPAN module for introducing a new C library to the world.
19:07 jeffreykegler Which brings up another aside ...
19:07 jeffreykegler There has been talk about a CCAN -- a C language equivalent of CPAN.  Something of that name in fact exists, I think.
19:08 jeffreykegler But what I keep repeating about CPAN is that the real value is in CPANtesters -- that's where all the CPAN "equivalents" for other languages all short IMHO.  (Is there an exception, where they do testing?)
19:09 jeffreykegler Anyway, a way to do CCAN is what I did with the Marpa C library.  That is, CPAN == CCAN.
19:09 jeffreykegler That way you get testing for your C library.
19:19 rns Sure.
19:19 rns CPAN did a great thing to Marpa on the audience side, with testing and interface development.
19:20 rns Looks hardly possible in any language other than Perl.
19:21 jeffreykegler rns: I think you may be right there, which is ironic ...
19:22 jeffreykegler because Perl-ers are probably the most theory-hostile programmers out there, and Marpa is all about bringing theory and math back into parsing,
19:23 jeffreykegler which has Marpa advancing into a strange combination of support and hostility.
19:26 rns Well, Marpa does the job for those who dare trying.
19:27 rns Now other languages' frontends/bindings to libmarpa have a choice; rewrite SLIF or roll their own.
19:29 jeffreykegler The SLIF shouldn't be that hard to clone, particularly since you can refer to my own implementation ...
19:29 jeffreykegler I think the biggest obstacle is getting people working in the libmarpa interface.
19:30 jeffreykegler Jean-Damien in now doing that, and Peter Stuifzand did.
19:31 jeffreykegler And this latest work with Jean-Damien has taught me a few things, and led me to rearrange the documentation a bit.
19:35 rns Yep, Peter's go-marpa-* and marpa-cpp-rules and JD's https://github.com/jddurand/libmarpa-packaging/tree/master/examples, all good things.
19:41 rns Have to get back to my translation job, goodbye.
19:42 jeffreykegler rns: bye
22:32 ronsavage joined #marpa
22:45 ronsavage I've just downloaded 2.085_004. During installation I got:
22:45 ronsavage libtool: link: ar cru .libs/libmarpa.a  marpa.o marpa_obs.o marpa_avl.o marpa_tavl.o marpa_ami.o marpa_codes.o marpa_slif.o
22:45 ronsavage libtool: link: ranlib .libs/libmarpa.a
22:45 ronsavage libtool: link: ( cd ".libs" && rm -f "libmarpa.la" && ln -s "../libmarpa.la" "libmarpa.la" )
22:45 ronsavage make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/ron/Downloads/Marpa/Marpa-R2-2.085_004/libmarpa_build'
22:45 ronsavage cc -I/home/ron/perl5/perlbrew/perls/perl-5.18.2/lib/5.18.2/x86_64-linux/CORE -DXS_VERSION="2.085_004" -DVERSION="2.085_004" -fPIC -c -fno-strict-aliasing -pipe -fstack-protector -I/usr/local/include -D_LARGEFILE_SOURCE -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64 -I /home/ron/Downloads/Marpa/Marpa-R2-2.085_004/libmarpa_build -I xs -Wall -W -ansi -Wpointer-arith -Wstrict-prototypes -Wwrite-strings -Wmissing-declarations -Wdeclaration-after-statement -O2 -o lib
22:45 ronsavage lib/Marpa/R2.xs: In function ‘XS_Marpa__R2__Thin__SLR_g1_lexeme_complete’:
22:45 ronsavage lib/Marpa/R2.xs:6091:10: warning: cast to pointer from integer of different size [-Wint-to-pointer-cast]
22:45 ronsavage ExtUtils::Mkbootstrap::Mkbootstrap('blib/arch/auto/Marpa/R2/R2.bs')
22:45 ronsavage cc -shared -O2 -L/usr/local/lib -fstack-protector -o blib/arch/auto/Marpa/R2/R2.so lib/Marpa/R2.o /home/ron/Downloads/Marpa/Marpa-R2-2.085_004/libmarpa_build/.libs/libmarpa.a
22:45 ronsavage All prerequisites satisfied
22:45 ronsavage Just mentioning it. Proceeding to test with my modules.....
22:56 ronsavage Hmmm. Those message above don't make it clear, but Marpa-R2-2.085_004 did not install. My tests used "Marpa::R2 V 2.085002"
23:26 jeffreykegler joined #marpa
23:28 jeffreykegler ronsavage: re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/marpa/2014-04-27#i_8645836 -- thanks for testing.  The CPANtesters matrix is pretty thorough at this point and OK except for previously known issues: http://217.199.168.174/cgi-bin/cpantestersmatrix.pl?dist=Marpa-R2
23:32 jeffreykegler The tests should not be mixing the two versions: Marpa-R2-2.085_004 and Marpa::R2 V 2.085002.  That is very likely to be a sign of issues, even if the installation goes through.

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