Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #marpa, 2014-07-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
06:21 ronsavage joined #marpa
22:18 jeffreykegler joined #marpa
22:52 jeffreykegler I am deep into the conversion of Marpa::R3 from Module::Build to ExtUtils::MakeMaker.  Using M::B was a big mistake, one that cost me literally months of extra work.
22:54 jeffreykegler Perhaps not often noticed is that it's a context of programming paradigms: language-driven programming (EU::MM) vs. object-oriented (M::B)
22:55 jeffreykegler EU::MM's uses "make" as a DSL -- a domain-specific language where the domain is building things which depend on others.
22:57 jeffreykegler I find EU::MM easier to work with and easier to extend -- but I'd emphasize that here "easier" does mean "easy".
22:58 jeffreykegler * "conteXt of programming paradigms" -> "conteSt of programming paradigms"
23:04 Aria Agreed completely. But build systems are just hard, always.
23:05 Aria They deal with stupid, open-ended, platform-specific problems.
23:14 jeffreykegler But I wonder if build systems must be that way.
23:15 jeffreykegler That is, if in 1970 you had suggested that idea of a language that was both universal, and also allowed you to program right down to the metal ...
23:15 jeffreykegler I would have told you that what you were asking for is impossible -- that you were asking for two contradictory things.
23:15 Aria Heh. True. But it's certainly a pretty approachable problem. People try over and over and over again.
23:16 jeffreykegler But while I would have been explaining carefully this impossibility in principle, Dennis Ritchie would have been inventing that language.
23:16 Aria Yeah. I certainly won't defend it as principle. Just a general suspicion.
23:16 jeffreykegler I think the issue with build systems is that they have yet to find their Dennis Ritchie.
23:17 Aria But I suspect it's largely a human problem -- interfacing with all the quirky compilers we invent. It's open-ended that way.
23:19 jeffreykegler Btw, I met Ritchie a couple of times, and he was personally quite humble and approachable.
23:19 jeffreykegler I wish I'd talked to him more, but I back then I took a lot of what he'd accomplished for granted.
23:26 Aria Heh, yeah. It's hard to see the genius in simple things.
23:27 Aria He's someone I'd love to have spoken with.
23:28 jeffreykegler He was at some parties I went to, and there was lots of opportunity for me to ask him all sorts of things, and I didn't do more than say hello.
23:31 jeffreykegler I think perhaps one thing C++ is good for -- it shows what a work of genius the C language was. :-)

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