Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #marpa, 2014-08-25

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Time Nick Message
00:01 ronsavage Yes, I know about the tiny down arrow. Still didn't see it. Checking again ... Nope. Clicked the browser's (Chrome's) refresh button several times now. Still not visible. Let me try github.
00:05 ronsavage I ended up typing in the URL by converting the URL as displayed when mouse hovering over the Download button for the 2.090.000 version. Working....
00:06 jeffreykegler Maybe it's because in Australia the arrow points the opposite way. :-)
00:06 jeffreykegler In any case, there is always CPAN Classic.
00:16 ronsavage Yeah - We're all going down the plughole :-(
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00:28 ronsavage1 OK. I had to re-install a few CPAN modules, for the new copy of Debian. And since I'm working on GraphViz2::Marpa I've skipped it and GraphViz2::Marpa::PathUtils. But finally:
00:28 ronsavage1 Marpa::R2 V 2.091. Test statistics:
00:28 ronsavage1 Fails: 0. Files: 262. Modules: 6. Passes: 6. Tests: 0.
00:28 ronsavage1 Duration: 30 seconds
00:29 ronsavage1 The report does not explicitly list total tests because I've obviously lost the patch to test.marpa.pl. I'll fix that next.
00:29 jeffreykegler Thanks!
00:29 ronsavage1 Also, that's GraphViz2 :: Marpa :: PathUtils.
01:06 ronsavage1 MarpaX::Languages::SVG::Parser. Files: 54. Result: Pass
01:06 ronsavage1 Marpa::R2 V 2.091. Test statistics:
01:06 ronsavage1 Fails: 0. Files: 262. Modules: 6. Passes: 6. Tests: 260.
01:06 ronsavage1 Duration: 30 seconds
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02:06 ronsavage The Marpa::R2::Advanced::Thin doc refers a number of times to the Libmarpa API document, but what's the name/url of the latter?
02:08 jeffreykegler There are links to the HTML and the PDF from this page: https://jeffreykegler.github.io/Marpa-web-site/libmarpa.html
02:09 ronsavage Got it: https://jeffreykegler.github.io/Marpa-web-site/libmarpa_api/cpan_indexed/index.html
02:09 ronsavage Thanx
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04:27 jdurand Re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/marpa/2014-08-24#i_9235861 - it is not using any cygwin stuff - perl-only thingsn even its perl ersion of ch, chmod, mv when needed
04:27 jdurand "its perl version of cp, etc."
04:27 jeffreykegler Wow
04:30 jdurand C.f. perldoc ExtUtils::Command
04:31 jeffreykegler I say "wow" because it executed the 'configure' file flawlessly.
04:31 jeffreykegler Oh yes, what about gcc?  It found a gcc somehow.
04:33 jdurand Installing strawberry is a very good thing because it installedfor you: gcc, cpp, libxml2, and a lot of other stuff that is hard to compile by yourself
04:34 jdurand Usually, in strawberry\c there is the mingw32 stuff used for the cross-compilation of this stuff
04:35 jdurand (my) recommended usage, on windows, is start a perl interpreter after having setted set PAHT variables like this:
04:35 jdurand set PATH=strawbetterLocation\perl\site\bin;%PATH%
04:35 jdurand set PATH=strawbetterLocation\perl\bin;%PATH%
04:35 jdurand set PATH=strawbetterLocation\c\bin;%PATH%
04:36 jdurand set TERM=dumb
04:36 jeffreykegler jdurand: Thanks!
04:37 * jdurand is sorry for the typos, just waked up, with the coffee desperately needed -,
04:38 jdurand No pb, even if you are using gcc, gcc @ Win32 is not exactly like gcc @ linux - but I bet a great alternative could be to have installed ActiveState perl as well - although I very highly (and only use -;!) strawberrer perl
04:39 jdurand Next step will be to design/finish your working environment
04:39 jeffreykegler That'll go slowly -- Windows is a "side show" for me.
04:40 jdurand No pb
04:40 jdurand If you manage to be native Win32, you will have a huge benefit: portable code
04:41 jeffreykegler Portable to Windows, you mean? :-)
04:41 jdurand Windows and Linux/Unix react differently, and since I use a lot these two OSes a lot since years, frankly both are very good
04:41 jdurand yes, I meant that
04:41 jeffreykegler I am surprised to not dislike Windows as much as I expected to.
04:42 jdurand When I was at CERN, it was fashioned to say "I prefer Linux, really" - so when I moved to private industry I had to learn as well
04:42 jeffreykegler Of course, part of its advantage is that it benefits from extremely low expectations on my part. :-)
04:43 jdurand and like you, to my suprise, it appeared to be excellent
04:43 jdurand Of course, we are talking only about "latest windows", the ones based on NT kernel, i.e. almost every since Windows XP, except the commercial catastrophies like Vista
04:44 jdurand But definitely, since Windows7, I am aver very pleased to work on that OS
04:45 jdurand jeffreykegler: as a programmer, the exceptations are just "it runs my code" and "I have a not anti-user-friendly" environment
04:45 jdurand that's my exceptations -;
04:49 jdurand I am waiting for Joas answer about build systems on Debian
04:49 jdurand and have to leave you all - good night to you
04:50 jdurand "Jonas"
04:50 jeffreykegler Bye!
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14:09 rns Marpa-R2-2.091_000 build, installed and runs ok under winxp (5.18.1, cl) and cygwin (5.14.1, gcc).
16:55 jeffreykegler joined #marpa
16:55 jeffreykegler rns: Thanks!
18:18 jeffreykegler rns: I've lost it in the backlog, but IIRC you asked if TeX could be eliminated from the development environment, and made necessary only for creating docs.
18:19 jeffreykegler The main source file of Libmarpa is marpa.w, a Cweb file -- marpa.c is created from it.  It's impossible to compile :Libmarpa from its true, original, source, without TeX.
18:21 jeffreykegler (Autoconf, in order not to inflict a TeX requirement on the targets, only recompiles from the marpa.c file.)
18:22 jeffreykegler Libmarpa's source is very difficult, even with the literate programming (CWeb) documentation.  This is one body of code where extensive comments are not "nice to have", but essential.
18:23 jeffreykegler And they have to allow for mathematical notation.
18:23 jeffreykegler Anyone who glances at the Libmarpa Cweb doc will see that
18:24 jeffreykegler First, there is a lot of documentation; and
18:25 jeffreykegler Second, you really want even more.
18:25 Aria Heh. I found the documentation almost distracting a lot of the time.
18:25 jeffreykegler Well, I find *I* need it.
18:26 Aria Yeah. There's no easy way to approach something that intricate.
18:26 Aria Especially where the solution domain doesn't resemble the way the problem is described at all.
18:26 jeffreykegler In particular, at this point, it records a lot of things not evident from the code.
18:26 jeffreykegler Like efficiency and complexity considerations.
18:27 jeffreykegler Aria: that's an interesting point.
18:28 jeffreykegler If you eliminated the suggestive keywords (things like "grammar" and "LHS") ...
18:28 jeffreykegler It would not be at all clear what the problem was that I was trying to solve.
18:29 Aria Yeah.
18:29 jeffreykegler In particular, inside Libmarpa, there are not strings, only integers -- it's an exercise in pure integer programming.
18:29 jeffreykegler (There is no use of float's either.)
18:30 jeffreykegler The only clue someone might get is if they were familiar with Earley's algorithm, they may say,
18:31 jeffreykegler "You know, the tables this code seems to center around look a lot like those for Earley's algorithm."
18:31 Aria Yeah. I came in with that familiarity.
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22:07 ronsavage1 jeffrey: Do you use http://irclog.perlgeek.de/marpa/2014-08-25 for the backlog? I find it's normally very reliable.
23:20 jeffreykegler joined #marpa
23:21 jeffreykegler jdurand: re http://irclog.perlgeek.de/marpa/2014-08-25#i_9236420
23:23 jeffreykegler What's the best way to add these so I get them by default on Windows 8.1?  I see there is one way to add PATH's that requires going 5 or 6 clicks deep into the systems setting panels.  Is that the best (only?) way?

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