Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #marpa, 2017-05-17

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:31 idiosyncrat joined #marpa
01:32 idiosyncrat Demat!
01:49 ilbot3 joined #marpa
01:49 Topic for #marpa is now Start here: http://savage.net.au/Marpa.html - Code paste: http://scsys.co.uk:8002/marpa - Jeffrey's Marpa site: http://jeffreykegler.github.io/Marpa-web-site/ - IRC log: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/marpa/today - Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYKVfGBtfTqbs1JdYq-dc5g
02:47 idiosyncrat Re Marpa *R2* and Perl 5.10.0
02:48 idiosyncrat You may recall that the most recent release of Marpa::R2 accidentally removed support for Perl 5.10.0
02:49 idiosyncrat I queried this channel and the Google group and, frankly, could not find anyone who cares about 5.10.0
02:50 idiosyncrat Since I intend R2 to be ultra-stable, and any change introduces a certain degree of risk, I decided the best thing for me to do for the existing user base was nothing.
02:51 idiosyncrat Which is what I've done for the past weeks.  I'm now considering a next move --
02:51 idiosyncrat Officially removing 5.10.0 support from Marpa::R2
02:52 idiosyncrat This is *not* something I had planned or like to do, but in effect it has happened, and it seems to have turned out to be the best thing.
02:53 idiosyncrat Since the latest release (by accident) does not support 5.10.0, officially removing support hurts no existing users.
02:55 idiosyncrat I will *not* cut a new release unless some other, serious, bug is found, but loss of official support means I will clean up the situation wrt 5.10.0 --
02:57 idiosyncrat currently the package claims to support 5.10.0, but it fails the test suite -- in any future release, the metadata will make Marpa::R2 installation require 5.10.1 or higher, which is more elegant.
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16:40 simcop2387 perlbot: allowpaste on
16:40 perlbot simcop2387: This channel has pastebin set [on]
16:41 perlbot simcop2387 pasted a new file at https://perlbot.pl/p/nagtb6 - Testing
16:58 lucs idiosyncrat: simcop2387 added the #marpa channel to his paste site.
16:59 lucs He could enable some Marpa modules to be used there.
16:59 lucs Which ones should that be?
17:01 simcop2387 looks like at least Marpa::R2 but i'm not sure what else
17:03 lucs Yeah, at least that one I guess.
17:08 idiosyncrat lucs: Interestring.  How does that work?
17:09 idiosyncrat Btw, of my modules there's only Marpa::R2 & Marpa::R3 and of these ...
17:09 idiosyncrat Marpa::R3 is alpha.
17:11 lucs The site allows running code that is pasted there, but simcop2387 needs to add modules that may be 'use'd ("Show supported modules").
17:12 simcop2387 i need to make that list dynamic, there's a lot more there than there used to be since i made a bunch of updates on the backend.
17:13 simcop2387 the "full" (not including depedancies) can be seen at https://github.com/perlbot/perlbuut/blob/master/cpanfile
17:13 lucs simcop2387: Does each supported perl version have its copy of the supported modules (when it makes sense)?
17:14 simcop2387 from 5.8 onwards they should.  but i need to automate adding modules to them all.  5.6 and below don't support cpanm so it's annoying to get them working.
17:15 lucs Get them working only if you get complaints, eh :)
17:15 simcop2387 last i tried, i couldn't even get 5.6 to install most modules :)
17:16 simcop2387 looks like Marpa::R2 requires 5.10 anyway
17:16 idiosyncrat Yes.  In  effect Marpa::R2 requires 5.10.1
17:17 idiosyncrat There has been some requests (which won't happen) for 5.8 support.  Nobody has ever asked for 5.6 support.
17:17 simcop2387 5.5 would be better
17:17 idiosyncrat simcoo2387: btw you may want to clear up the licensing on perlbuut
17:18 simcop2387 it's deliberetely not stated because i have to get a hold of a few people to really clarify it.
17:18 idiosyncrat One strategy is 1.) Pick a license 2.) Get all current copyright holders to agree.  (Any holdouts, code around them.)
17:19 simcop2387 the problem is the code around them is difficult since proper authorship wasn't recorded in the early days with buu and b_jonas.  The pieces that are safe to do that to (the eval stuff, and others) i've been cleaning up and getting ready to release as standalone code.
17:19 idiosyncrat If you don't do something your code is *not* open-source -- any one of the current copyright holders can claim a share of ownership and demand compensation.
17:20 idiosyncrat If the list of contributors is known and short, you probably can get them all to agree.
17:21 simcop2387 buu knows and has agreed to the current setup, i haven't gotten a hold of b_jonas in a long time.  but both were previously ok/supportive of the current setup.  changing it could cause more problems.
17:21 idiosyncrat So it's just the 3 people?
17:22 simcop2387 that i've ever been able to confirm for certain
17:22 idiosyncrat What I'd do:
17:23 idiosyncrat 1.) First, pick a license.  (Perl dual?  MIT?)
17:23 idiosyncrat 2.) Make a real effort to contact b_jonas.
17:23 simcop2387 i.e. they have given me license to use it as it is now.  aside from buu it's mostly been plugin development that b_jonas did.  so removing the ones that he's done is possible.
17:24 idiosyncrat 3.) After that, consult the lawyer at the Perl Foundation, who is very helpful I've heard.
17:25 idiosyncrat All this is a *very* annoying distraction from the fun stuff, but it's necessary and once gotten out of the way, it's out of the way. :-)
17:26 Topic for #marpa is now Start here: http://savage.net.au/Marpa.html - Code paste/run: https://f.perlbot.pl/#marpa - Jeffrey's Marpa site: http://jeffreykegler.github.io/Marpa-web-site/ - IRC log: http://irclog.perlgeek.de/marpa/today - Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYKVfGBtfTqbs1JdYq-dc5g
17:26 simcop2387 That also assumes that i'm working towards making the bot truly open source.  the really important bits already are in one form or another (App::Evalserver someone forked off with buu's permission before my updates, the pastebin itself, and a few other bits).
17:27 idiosyncrat simcop2387: One thing you did that *is* good -- your license section is very clear about the questionable status of the code, so anybody who's at all careful will be warned.  That was really good of you to do.
17:27 simcop2387 i forgot that i had done that :)
17:28 idiosyncrat simcop2387: Well, you done good there.  Congratulations. :-)
17:28 simcop2387 that said, I DO want to make it truly open source.  probably MIT just to avoid other consequences with anything in it.
17:29 idiosyncrat OK, then  the 3 steps above are my suggestion.
17:30 simcop2387 but in the mean time since it's low priority I've just been making anything new a seperate project or module that handles the tech behind it.  I.e. Sys::Linux::Namespace to help manage namespacing, and rewriting the sandbox code to use it as a seperate module that i'm going to spin off into an updated App::Evalserver
17:30 simcop2387 damn, 10:30 i gotta head to work.
17:31 lucs simcop2387: Thanks for this!
17:31 simcop2387 np.
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18:58 perlbot Anonymous pasted a new file at https://f.perlbot.pl/p/bkxgnu -
19:11 simcop2387 perlbot: paste
19:11 perlbot simcop2387: Paste your code to the new https://f.perlbot.pl/#marpa or http://paste.scsys.co.uk or on freenode http://fpaste.scsys.co.uk/perl | http://paste.debian.net/ http://paste.ubuntu.com/ http://fpaste.org/ http://pastebin.ca/ https://gist.github.com/ | see allowpaste plugin as an op to control the pastebin in your channel
19:11 simcop2387 good that made the right link here
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