Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #metacpan, 2013-12-21

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Time Nick Message
00:47 ether #569 was closed but is not fixed yet
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04:29 oalders ether: which repo?
04:32 oalders ranguard++ # housekeeping
04:32 oalders i hate to see some of the issues closed, but it's just hard to keep an overview of what's important
04:32 oalders we can always revisit them later
04:32 oalders but we're trying to put a plan together for 2014 that consists of more than just picking random open issues and dealing with them
04:33 oalders and the open were a real nightmare to wade through
04:33 oalders and mostly sadly neglected
04:33 oalders lots of people opening issues but very few with actual solutions
04:38 mst oalders: how much of that is triage-required?
04:39 mst oalders: I wonder if creating a questhub template for 'triage N metacpan issues' might be useful
04:39 oalders mst: that's a good idea.  part of the problem is there are a lot of "wish list" items
04:40 oalders when they haven't been dealt with over 2 or 3 years and the author of the ticket hasn't proposed anything, they're not so useful
04:40 mst frankly, IME they're never useful
04:40 mst have a wishlist wiki page
04:40 mst it shouldn't get as far as an issue without a proposed design and a putative implementor
04:42 oalders yeah, i can go along with that.  it's just that when we started out, we used the issues as a way to get feedback from people
04:43 oalders and we wanted as much feedback as possible, so it was a good thing
04:43 oalders now it just looks like we don't deal with open issues
04:43 oalders which is not a good thing
04:47 mst oalders: lolwut?
04:47 mst oalders: how the fuck is "add it to this wiki page" any less "as much feedback as possible" ?
04:47 mst sorry. I genuinely don't understand what you think your point is
04:48 mst I think the reality is "nobody thought ahead about how badly this would pollute the issues, so nobody created a policy to put wishlist stuff somewhere else"
04:48 mst which is fuck all to do with getting as much feedback as possible, and isn't a good thing
04:48 mst but is something pretty much everybody fucks up
04:48 mst I only know the answer because I've been there already several times
04:49 mst and note that I did -not- say "don't accept wishlist items with no implementor", only "they should go on the wiki page, then an issue to discuss design once you -do- have an implementor, then a PR once there's an implementation"
04:49 oalders an issue is trackable
04:49 oalders an entry on a wiki page, not so much
04:49 oalders it just doesn't scale well
04:49 mst ORLY. and how well are your issues scaling right now?
04:49 mst whereas a wiki page makes it way less likely for people to -duplicate- items
04:50 mst and leads them to elaborate on each others' items
04:50 mst so as a means to get that sort of information together, if gardened a little bit (less effort than for issues) it scales really nicely
04:50 oalders no -- i'm agreeing with you. the issues aren't scaling at all
04:51 mst ah, I see
04:51 mst honestly, wiki pages can be trackable just fine
04:51 oalders i like the wiki approach
04:51 mst although I'm not sure it's worth it until you've got futher than a random idea
04:51 oalders we're using it for the 2014 roadmap.  we can push people there for wish list items as well.  that's good feedback
04:52 mst honestly, I tend to prefer having a mailing list
04:52 mst so people post their idea, and there's discussion, and it gets implemented or not
04:52 oalders we have a mailing list but it just never gets used
04:53 mst "I'm closing this ticket because it's not a bug report - if you have a suggestion for future development, please discuss it on the mailing list <here>"
04:53 mst you have a mailing list but you're doing nothing to promote appropriate use of it
04:54 oalders also a good point
04:54 mst adopting the attitude that everything that goes wrong is your fault makes things like this easier to fix - just don't confuse 'my fault' and 'I need to feel guilty about this'
04:54 mst the former is useful, the latter a waste of energy
04:55 oalders yeah :)
04:55 oalders there's *lots* of room for improvement around here. i'm not blind to that
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05:01 ether good discussion. I've always just opened a github issue when I have a suggestion for change/improvement, but I'll happily take that somewhere else
05:01 ether a wiki would be interesting; I would be less likely to simply drive by and drop in a suggestion when I can see others' ideas, and make comments on them too
05:08 oalders we can try that out and see how it works
05:08 oalders for reference, the mailing list is here http://lists.scsys.co.uk/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/metacpan
05:08 dipsy [ MetaCPAN Info Page ]
05:11 mst I really wish it was possible to have a bug list and a suggestion box separately
05:12 oalders you can use tagging for that, but the github issues are pretty basic
05:13 oalders https://github.com/CPAN-API/cpan-api/wiki/Wishlist
05:13 dipsy [ Wishlist · CPAN-API/cpan-api Wiki · GitHub ]
05:14 mst IME the github everything is pretty basic ... it makes the easy things really easy, and the hard things slightly harder than a man about to die of a viagra overdose
05:14 Topic for #metacpan is now Have you installed your MetaCPAN VM? https://github.com/CPAN-API/metacpan-developer | Chat logs available at http://irclog.perlgeek.de/metacpan/ | Can't find your module on MetaCPAN? https://metacpan.org/about/missing_modules | Feature suggestions now belong on the wish list: https://github.com/CPAN-API/cpan-api/wiki/Wishlist
05:14 oalders :)
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08:44 ranguard mst++ # wishlist wiki idea
08:46 ranguard I'll mention that when closing issues (which so far have only been the on the list over a year old
08:46 ranguard with no discussion/action
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18:07 ranguard rwstauner / oalders could someone look at https://github.com/CPAN-API/cpan-api/pull/184 - related to a issue and don't know if it's needed now?
18:07 dipsy [ Fix issue #476 by mpeters · Pull Request #184 · CPAN-API/cpan-api · GitHub ]
18:07 ranguard Issue: https://github.com/CPAN-API/metacpan-web/issues/476
18:07 dipsy [ The HTML title for a .pod document displays "Search the CPAN" · Issue #476 · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
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18:23 oalders ranguard: commented on the issue
18:45 ranguard oalders: cheers
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19:46 ranguard I've started on the wishlist - I'm going to leave things that actually seem like bugs that should be fixed - but will add appropreate labels
21:00 ranguard ok, issues down to 100 (more still to do) - wishlist wiki really seems to work I think: https://github.com/CPAN-API/cpan-api/wiki/Wishlist
21:00 dipsy [ Wishlist · CPAN-API/cpan-api Wiki · GitHub ]
21:58 ether ranguard++ # triaging
22:08 * ranguard realised he was on cpan-api - metacpan-web now down to 108 :)
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