Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #metacpan, 2014-02-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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03:31 kentnl perl is now #12 on gittip. We passed vim ;)
03:48 oalders :)
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12:09 kentnl perl just passed RoR
12:10 kentnl 4 short of beating korea!
12:12 ribasushi kentnl: "Moose -> everything" ?
12:12 kentnl Moose -> develop.requires -> Dist::Zilla::PluginBundle::Author::ETHER
12:13 kentnl which includes dzil ( half of cpan ) and a bunch of plugins ( the other half of cpan )
12:13 ribasushi kentnl: I meant in what context
12:13 kentnl ":02:23 <@rwstauner> if you turn the knobs far enough do you get (Catalyst) -> (everything) ?
12:13 ribasushi ah
12:14 ribasushi kentnl: you don't get anything because graphviz goes into an inf-loop ;)
12:14 kentnl lol. :/
12:14 ribasushi kentnl: this is why develop are ( ignore => 1 )
12:14 ribasushi kentnl: as far as producing the raw data / .dotfile - still ~4 secs
12:14 kentnl this is why we cannot have an orbourous
12:15 ribasushi kentnl: given ether package Class::Method::Modifiers and B::Hooks::EndOfScope recently - there's no escape anymore ;)
12:16 kentnl Just need to learn how to break cycles intelligently, and/or limit depth on certain things.
12:17 ribasushi you mean gviz or...?
12:17 kentnl you'd have to break the cycles before handing the data over to gviz
12:18 kentnl maybe you could do kruskal or djikstra's MST shit, but that stuff is pesky as fuck
12:18 ribasushi erm... that's trivial but... which ones do I break?
12:19 kentnl I'd probably just arbitrarily break cycles that happen later
12:19 kentnl develop.depends for instance can almost always be arbitrarily broken
12:20 * kentnl needs to think a bit on this shit
12:21 ribasushi hm hm hm... given I do the stuff in 2 passes I can always calculate additive weights and stuff in the first pass, and decide what to break in the second, by just drawing the "heaviest edge" or somesuch
12:21 ribasushi I guess the question isn't "how to do it" but "what are we ok with hiding"
12:22 kentnl for instance, I'm not sure the logic, but if  X -[ develop ]-> Y -> [ Runtime ]-> X  can obviously not be satisified, and would be restructured as Y -> [ Runtime ]-> X -> *no develop requires on Y*   , or something
12:22 kentnl or you could just make it X -> [ develop: Unsatisfiable ] -> Y
12:23 * kentnl figures CPAN is going to need proper cycle detection one day, just nobody has really done it yet
12:25 kentnl there's also bootstrap logic
12:25 kentnl ie: its satisfiable as long as Moose is already installed
12:25 kentnl and then instead of Moose -> X -> Moose
12:26 kentnl its Moose -> X -> Moose'
12:26 Mithaldu kentnl: CPAN.pm has cycle detection :)
12:26 kentnl and the second Moose has no dependencies
12:26 ribasushi well, that's simple - we just assume a spherical-perl-in-vacuum^Wa virgin perl install and rely on CoreList
12:26 ribasushi kentnl: or am I misunderstanding what you mean...?
12:27 kentnl ribasushi: They're similar concepts, yes. Just the mechanism to which things are 'already installed' changes =)
12:28 kentnl ultimately, what I'm saying is the graph is very different if you don't have a clean install
12:28 kentnl and some things are /unresolvable/ on a clean install
12:29 ribasushi huh?
12:29 ribasushi if something is unresolvable on a clean install you end up getting a cpantesters report ;)
12:29 kentnl Not for --develop-requires
12:30 kentnl cpanm --with-develop Moose # on a clean perl
12:30 kentnl Author::Ether will try building dzil, which wont work because dzil requires moose, and moose is not installed yet
12:32 kentnl this is only a problem because cpanm's not very smart with deep cycle detection or ordering
12:32 kentnl ie: you can solve that problem by delaying develop.requires to being "post deps"
12:33 kentnl Install Moose first, then install develop requires, and suddently its resolvable
12:33 ribasushi kentnl: right, I am not talking about a shitty 80/20 client, all I care about is if it works with CPAN.pm ;)
12:33 kentnl CPAN.pm supports --develop now?
12:33 ribasushi (also why my travis setup uses CPAN when testing the depchain ;)
12:33 ribasushi it doesn't hence it's not a problem :)
12:34 * kentnl facepalms
12:34 kentnl its _only_ a problem for develop
12:34 ribasushi I know, it helps with trolling you very much ;)
12:35 kentnl Consider your trolling successful.
12:35 ribasushi much troll, such angering, very facepalm, wow :)
14:29 kentnl just passed korea. =)
14:29 kentnl next, we'll be beating opensource itself!
14:45 ribasushi first, we take Korea, then we take...?
14:45 kentnl The world. Obviously.
14:46 kentnl <maniacal laughter here>
14:47 ribasushi hmmm... I wonder if it is ok to say I prefer my payments doge-style? :)
14:52 kentnl <<rimshot>>
14:53 kentnl you could make a living garnering responses like that
14:54 kentnl something something something rimjob but I can't work out how to glue it together
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16:25 oalders ether: any idea when this can get merged? https://github.com/moose/namespace-autoclean/pull/1
16:25 dipsy [ Don't require Moose by haarg · Pull Request #1 · moose/namespace-autoclean · GitHub ]
17:18 neilb Getting a 504 from metacpan at the moment
17:19 alh oalders: ^ ps auxwww :D
17:19 oalders ok :)
17:19 alh (Logs would be wonderful too - if linux - syslog, also application logs)
17:19 alh If anyone's ever replicated this on a dev box....
17:21 oalders seems like it's back?
17:22 neilb seems like it :-)
17:22 oalders alh: if you want to troubleshoot the server, we can get you access to the machine
17:22 alh oalders: Would love to look at least
17:23 oalders alh: https://github.com/CPAN-API/metacpan-puppet/commit/5c608bcaa025537946adb9bb8dd3f3f1cd22752a
17:23 dipsy [ Adds matthewt to admins. · 5c608bc · CPAN-API/metacpan-puppet · GitHub ]
17:23 oalders can you follow that example and send a pull request?
17:24 alh oalders: Sure thing. Will get to at some point, thanks!
17:24 oalders alh: https://gist.github.com/oalders/9118893
17:24 dipsy [ gist:9118893 ]
17:24 alh This doesn't come with a pager and on-call rotation automatically right? :)
17:24 oalders :)
17:25 oalders basically it's an ongoing problem and nobody has it figured out
17:25 oalders any help would be appreciated
17:26 alh Sure, I love these kinds of problems
17:26 oalders you're a special kind of person then!
17:26 oalders let me see who currently has the pager...
17:27 alh OH look at the time, gotta turn off all of my electronics
17:27 oalders :)
17:31 alh https://github.com/CPAN-API/metacpan-puppet/pull/24 looks right
17:31 dipsy [ Add mhorsfall to admins by wolfsage · Pull Request #24 · CPAN-API/metacpan-puppet · GitHub ]
17:35 oalders alh: running puppet
17:35 oalders hostname: bm-n2.metacpan.org port: 2202
17:36 trs oalders, alh: are you talking about the metacpan-www procs hanging around?
17:36 trs or something else?
17:36 oalders trs: yes, the procs
17:36 oalders puppet run is finished
17:37 oalders first time i've seen this: err: /Stage[main]/Metacpan::Web::Www/Service[metacpan-www]/ensure: change from stopped to running failed: Could not start Service[metacpan-www]: Execution of '/etc/init.d/metacpan-www start' returned 1:
17:37 oalders but it's running
17:39 trs presumably because /etc/init.d/metacpan-www thinks it wasn't running, but oh hey, it is.
17:40 alh oalders: When it all freezes, what do you generally do to fix it?
17:40 oalders alh: just kill the processes that are hanging around and start fresh
17:40 oalders nothing fancy
17:40 alh Which processes? Starman? Elastic search? Other?
17:41 oalders Starman
17:41 oalders it's the front end that hangs
17:41 oalders the api seems fine
17:42 oalders i can't get anything from 5001 even from localhost
17:42 oalders 5000 is the api
17:48 alh oalders: Are there other servers serving metacpan traffic?
17:48 oalders alh: not yet
17:48 oalders there will be a CDN in the near future
17:49 alh One final question - what is nginx used for?
17:49 oalders nginx just proxies to Starman and serves up static content
17:50 alh Okay. I wasn't seeing requests I made go through nginx's access logs at all
17:51 trs /var/www/metacpan.org/logs/
17:52 trs instead of /var/log/nginx/
17:52 alh Ah! Thank you
17:52 oalders yeah, logs aren't where you think they'll be :)
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