Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #metacpan, 2014-09-19

| Channels | #metacpan index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:10 vroom joined #metacpan
00:38 mrhorner joined #metacpan
01:13 FROGGS_ joined #metacpan
01:22 vroom joined #metacpan
01:36 ether haarg++ # whitespace rendering
01:57 vroom joined #metacpan
02:01 vroom joined #metacpan
02:11 gvenkat joined #metacpan
02:49 vroom joined #metacpan
02:57 miyagawa left #metacpan
03:02 vroom joined #metacpan
03:27 oiami joined #metacpan
03:46 vroom joined #metacpan
04:08 vroom joined #metacpan
04:22 vroom joined #metacpan
04:39 vroom joined #metacpan
05:34 metacpan joined #metacpan
05:34 metacpan [metacpan-web] haarg pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/xqRuuA
05:34 metacpan metacpan-web/master c73e9d1 Graham Knop: fix ++ button highlight
05:34 metacpan left #metacpan
05:34 dipsy [ fix ++ button highlight · c73e9d1 · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
06:39 dp_ joined #metacpan
06:54 neilb joined #metacpan
07:29 FROGGS_ joined #metacpan
07:36 khisanth_ joined #metacpan
07:41 dolmen joined #metacpan
07:55 neilb joined #metacpan
08:12 mib_5ypg2m joined #metacpan
08:19 neilb joined #metacpan
11:17 vroom joined #metacpan
11:40 vroom joined #metacpan
11:55 vroom joined #metacpan
12:08 mrhorner joined #metacpan
12:14 tobyink On this page, https://metacpan.org/release/TOBYINK/Type-Tiny-1.001_001 in the contributors list, why is ABRAXXA presented differently to everybody else??
12:14 dipsy [ Type-Tiny-1.001_001 - tiny, yet Moo(se)-compatible type constraint - metacpan.org ]
12:38 oalders i think it's because ABRAXXA is an author but doesn't have a gravatar_url in the api
12:38 oalders i think haarg was the last person to work on this part
12:45 tobyink Seems odd... "we can't show you their picture, so here, have a look at their PAUSEID instead".
13:21 oalders if you check the source of that page, the PAUSE ids are there for all of the authors.  they're just not being displayed in the other cases
13:48 vroom joined #metacpan
13:58 haarg that isn't a part that i've messed with
13:58 haarg but it's a problem in the javascript
13:59 haarg it breaks because there's no gravatar, so it misses updating the name
14:12 ranguard /w 16
14:16 vroom joined #metacpan
14:24 vroom joined #metacpan
14:28 vroom joined #metacpan
14:50 FROGGS joined #metacpan
15:06 metacpan joined #metacpan
15:06 metacpan [metacpan-web] haarg pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/1Q4FqA
15:06 metacpan metacpan-web/master b6ed077 Graham Knop: improve handling of contributors gravatars...
15:06 metacpan left #metacpan
15:06 dipsy [ improve handling of contributors gravatars · b6ed077 · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
15:06 haarg tobyink: ^ fixed
15:14 oalders haarg++
15:53 timbunce joined #metacpan
15:54 timbunce Here's a scenario I'd have hoped metacpan could help me with more than it appears to be...
15:54 timbunce I want to install Catalyst::Plugin::Unicode::Encoding for an old verion of Catalyst. But Catalyst::Plugin::Unicode::Encoding is now bundled with Catalyst, so a simple cpanm Catalyst::Plugin::Unicode::Encoding updates Catalyst, which I don't want.
15:55 timbunce So my problem now is "how can I find the latest release of Catalyst::Plugin::Unicode::Encoding that wasn't bundled with Catalyst.
15:55 timbunce Clues?
15:55 dipsy Clues are "pure-play retail" and that list of VCSes
15:56 timbunce I'm staring at http://explorer.metacpan.org/#/4b8f6baffd3a0e17275b but have no clue where to go next.
15:56 dipsy [ MetaCPAN Explorer ]
16:01 FROGGS joined #metacpan
16:08 mib_3o5jjt joined #metacpan
16:14 ether timbunce: unless you wrote a tool to do it (which probably involves a metacpan query, since you can't use the PAUSE index), I'd just manually go to metacpan and find the last release of that dist that was stand-alone, and save that URL in your deployment script to pass to cpanm.
16:14 ether I'd like, when I have the tuits, to rewrite that plugin anyway since it doesn't really do what's advertised
16:15 ether it's imparting meaning on utf8::is_utf8 that isn't correct
16:15 timbunce Hi ether. "go to metacpan and find the last release of that dist that was stand-alone" - what's the best way to do that?
16:15 timbunce (In the end I found https://metacpan.org/release/BOBTFISH/Catalyst-Plugin-Unicode-Encoding-1.* via the API but it was a fluke :) )
16:20 oalders timbunce: i see what the problem is
16:20 oalders if you go to Catalyst::Plugin::Unicode::Encoding then all of the earlier releases are for Catalyst
16:20 oalders and not for this particular plugin
16:20 * timbunce nods
16:21 oalders not helpful at all in this case
16:22 timbunce oalders: The single 'MetaCPAN Explorer' link is to the distro not the package. Adding an explorer link for the package might be a simple step forward.
16:23 oalders timbunce: if you're on the actual module page, the explorer link should go to /module/JJNAPIORK/Catalyst-Runtime-5.90072/lib/Catalyst/Plugin/Unicode/Encoding.pm
16:25 oalders timbunce: if you want to open an issue at https://github.com/CPAN-API/metacpan-examples i can add an example of this kind of search
16:25 dipsy [ CPAN-API/metacpan-examples · GitHub ]
16:27 oalders although maybe the better fix would be to make the version dropdown on module pages follow the module's history rather than the disributions's history
16:27 timbunce oalders: will do. FYI I stumbled on http://api.metacpan.org/v0/module/_search?q=%22Catalyst::Plugin::Unicode::Encoding%22 by trial and error and that gave me the clue I needed
16:27 dipsy urgh. long url. Try http://tinyurl.com/nbvcgk9
16:28 tobyink haarg: thanks.
16:28 timbunce oalders: the current version dropdown is on the release. You could _add_ a version dropdown to the module name part
16:28 rwstauner timbunce: http://explorer.metacpan.org/#/5bece0ac91ab84f869c0
16:28 dipsy [ MetaCPAN Explorer ]
16:28 oalders timbunce: good idea
16:29 oalders i always forget about that dropdown. was looking at the one on the left side of the page with the other links
16:29 timbunce Also, while I'm here, the "Questions? Chat with us!" is cool but a bit gross and confusing (to me at least).
16:29 rwstauner there's an issue about that discussion
16:29 rwstauner input is welcome
16:29 oalders timbunce: https://github.com/CPAN-API/metacpan-web/issues/1360
16:29 dipsy [ The "Questions? Chat with us!" graphic is way too visually intrusive · Issue #1360 · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
16:30 oalders if you care to add a comment, that's helpful
16:30 timbunce rwstauner: that's great, thanks, but requires far greater knowledge of explorer query syntax and schema than I poses
16:31 rwstauner indeed.  it would be helpful to add to the ui.  i just saw that you posted the explorer link earlier so i thought you were looking for a query
16:32 rwstauner that should at least be the answer you were looking for (i wasn't sure if you found the version you wanted yet)
16:39 rwstauner oh, now i see it.  nm... too many things at once
16:48 vroom joined #metacpan
16:48 * ether returns. ah yes, sorry, I was misremembering that a module's history followed its own history, not the distro it's in now (go to the module page, go back to an earlier version of it, then see the dist it was in at the time)
16:49 neilb joined #metacpan
18:06 neilb joined #metacpan
18:24 metacpan joined #metacpan
18:24 metacpan [metacpan-web] ranguard created leo/news_and_ip (+1 new commit): http://git.io/2tO2UA
18:24 metacpan metacpan-web/leo/news_and_ip d697e2f Leo Lapworth: news story and get people to update hosts file
18:24 metacpan left #metacpan
18:24 dipsy [ news story and get people to update hosts file · d697e2f · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
18:32 mrhorner joined #metacpan
18:45 metacpan joined #metacpan
18:45 metacpan [metacpan-web] oalders pushed 1 new commit to master: http://git.io/p7SOgg
18:45 metacpan metacpan-web/master 37f0058 Olaf Alders: Merge pull request #1364 from CPAN-API/leo/news_and_ip...
18:45 metacpan left #metacpan
18:45 metacpan joined #metacpan
18:45 metacpan [metacpan-web] oalders deleted leo/news_and_ip at d697e2f: http://git.io/1Oxruw
18:45 metacpan left #metacpan
18:46 dipsy [ Merge pull request #1364 from CPAN-API/leo/news_and_ip · 37f0058 · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
18:46 dipsy [ news story and get people to update hosts file · d697e2f · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
19:12 neilb joined #metacpan
19:46 oalders i'm trying to figure out an issue with 06perms
19:46 oalders Business::MaxMind,BORISZ,c
19:46 oalders that namespace only has a co-maint
19:46 oalders nothing else
19:47 neilb yep, there are plenty like that
19:47 oalders ah, there you are ;)
19:47 oalders how can we get maint or co-maint to another account?
19:47 neilb email the PAUSE admins is your only recourse on this one
19:47 oalders ok, thanks
19:48 neilb This usually happens when the owner gives up their permissions, leaving just a co-maint behind
19:48 oalders ah, that makes sense
19:50 vroom joined #metacpan
19:52 dmitri__ joined #metacpan
20:02 ether all, please feel free to +1 this: https://rt.cpan.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=98986
20:02 dipsy [ Bug #98986 for Module-CPANTS-Analyse: new kwalitee metric: contains IRC metadata ]
20:35 vroom joined #metacpan
21:11 Lusitanian joined #metacpan
22:54 dngor joined #metacpan
22:54 dngor Mithaldu: You're wrong. :)
22:55 Mithaldu dngor: you're not rocco, are you?
22:55 dngor Of course I am.
22:55 Mithaldu well dang, i even searched my log
22:56 Mithaldu dngor: i see you've responded and would love to chat, right now is not a very good time though, as i'm playing with some people on the side
22:56 Mithaldu though if you're fine with slow responses you can talk at me :)
22:56 dngor That's ok.  It's not a great time for me either.
22:57 Mithaldu that said: i do see some fair points
22:57 haarg Mithaldu: what browser are you using where the sizes are wrong?
22:57 Mithaldu and i think they coincide with the whole "dists need to have options" thing
22:57 Mithaldu haarg: chrome, and opera 12
22:57 Mithaldu in opera 12 i have set the minimum browser font size higher
22:57 Mithaldu so all text is a little bigger
22:57 Mithaldu specifically: the "us!" gets cut off
22:58 dngor I have very little personal ego in this.  I've learned some strategies from recently playing local politics.
22:58 Mithaldu also, a further comment: most dists do not have "support" channels in the first place
22:59 Mithaldu there's docs, and bug report channels
22:59 Mithaldu not general "i dunno if i'm dumb or this is a bug" channels
22:59 dngor Sure, but you're doing other things.  If you keep making points, I might be compelled to say something in return, and before you know it we might be discussing a thing.
23:00 Mithaldu well i'm waiting for a match to begin
23:00 dngor Ok.
23:00 Mithaldu within the next 1-120 seconds i'll shut up :P
23:00 Mithaldu but if you talk i can still read it
23:00 Mithaldu so far i'm happy you haven't told me that the stuff i've said is entirely wrong though :)
23:01 dngor The presence of IRC is not the expression of a preference for IRC, but that was addressed earlier by <paraphrase>This is for the larger Perl community, not specifically for its subcommunities.</paraphrase>
23:01 Mithaldu i'm confused
23:01 Mithaldu what are you trying to tell me in more simple english?
23:02 Mithaldu dngor: it would also be helpful if you enumerated the "other options" you mentioned
23:02 dngor As it was expressed to me on github, this feature is designed to bolster the overall Perl IRC community, not necessarily to support individual distribution subcommunities.
23:03 Mithaldu one leads to the other :)
23:03 Mithaldu there's another point to be made there, but takeoff is now
23:03 dngor Other options include every sidebar link that gets the user in touch with the project.  Including but not limited to e-mail, bug tracker, newsgroups, web forums, skype, Google hangouts, etc.
23:03 dngor Toodles!</torgue>
23:10 Mithaldu dngor: of those i've only ever seen the first three used realistically, and the mailing list one is vanishingly rare
23:12 Mithaldu that said, if you were to say: "we should have a list of comms options, on screen at all times, and the dist itself gets to decide if and which they wish to highlight in a garish manner", then i think that's something all people in the convo could agree with
23:13 Mithaldu in that way it also becomes moot what the perception of a newbie on the response speed of irc is, since that burden falls on the dist then
23:15 Mithaldu also, your perception that the imperative is to increase irc participation is wrong
23:15 Mithaldu the imperative is to increase irc participation in the non-unix-beard demographic
23:20 Mithaldu dngor: also, the thing you're missing about the role of irc is that it fills a hole that direct email, mailing list, bug tracker and forum cannot fill: simple low-effort conversation
23:21 Mithaldu i've seen many people give up on a thing because writing a thing themselves or trying a different module was easier than the other other options, which were all considerably more difficult than going on irc and asking "how am i doing this wrong?"
23:26 ether *nod*
23:26 ether I've often been amazed at people's failure to go "gee, maybe I should ask for help"
23:27 ether they just throw up their hands and go "it's so HARD"
23:27 Mithaldu oh, also
23:27 Mithaldu i can say from experience in #win32 that we definitely manage to catch a lot more newbies with a visible irc link
23:27 Mithaldu sometimes we can even understand the language they're speaking
23:38 dngor Mithaldu: I think it will be significantly less objectionable if the distro could decide what it wants to be gaudy, and IRC could be the default.
23:38 Mithaldu dngor: word
23:39 Mithaldu dngor: can you do me a favor and post that most of your objections disappear if the dist is able to make that choice?
23:39 dngor I don't have any objections.
23:40 Mithaldu your last post in the thread sounded fairly objecting and i'd like to have it stated that it ain't so :)
23:40 dngor Mithaldu: Earlier I said: https://github.com/CPAN-API/metacpan-web/issues/1360#issuecomment-56070144
23:40 dipsy [ The "Questions? Chat with us!" graphic is way too visually intrusive · Issue #1360 · CPAN-API/metacpan-web · GitHub ]
23:41 ether dngor: what do you mean by "decide what it wants to be gaudy"?
23:41 dngor What do you mean by "what do you mean by"? :)
23:42 Mithaldu ether: basically give dists a way to mark a comms link as primary
23:42 ether if a dist documents both a mailing list and irc, both should be highlighted on metacpan, IMO
23:42 Mithaldu (or even none)
23:42 dngor Oh.  In that case, set them all aside in a "how to contact the project" box.
23:42 Mithaldu for example for dbic irc would definitely be primary
23:42 Mithaldu but for PDL mailing list would be primary and irc secondary
23:43 dngor Or add a bunch of ribbons.  Beauty, eyes of the beholder, if it's really ugly a lot of people will say something, and the problem will correct itself.
23:43 jnbek RIBBONS!!!
23:43 ether I dunno, what's "primary" is in the eye of the beholder
23:43 dngor I really don't need to have an opinion here.
23:43 Mithaldu ether: that's the entire point!
23:43 ether personally, I'd rather see people ask Moose questions on irc, but the mailing list is going to be far more accessable for some people
23:43 Mithaldu "give dists a way to mark a comms link as primary"
23:43 ether dngor: I mean in the eye of the user, not the maintainer.
23:44 ether and the mailing list will get more eyes at certain times of day, anyway...
23:44 ether so really, "ask on both" :)
23:44 Mithaldu ... this is getting too yakky for me
23:44 dngor ether: I think it's fair and sustainable for a project to suggest a line of communication that's most convenient for it, and to present the options alongside it so that the user can click on whatever they damn well feel regardless.
23:45 dngor OMG IRC CLICK HERE NOW (also e-mail, and this bug tracker).  "Oh, I hate IRC, but there's e-mail too."
23:47 dngor Or OMG BUG TRACKER CLICK HERE NOW (also irc and e-mail), vs. Procrustean hard-coding.
23:47 Mithaldu ether: in summary: in this instance i'm all "power to the maintainer, the user doesn't know what the fuck, and the user who knows what the fuck will have enough of a clue to make a choice"

| Channels | #metacpan index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary