Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #moarvm, 2013-06-01

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:00 colomon apr's configure, or apr's make?
00:00 diakopter make
00:00 diakopter it doesn't install it to the system
00:00 colomon ah, MoarVM's root Makefile works for me if I build apr by hand.
00:11 colomon make worked this time!
00:15 colomon make test reports All tests successful.
00:20 colomon make nqptest reports All tests successful
00:24 pmichaud \o/
00:29 japhb_ Yay!
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00:42 colomon still would be good to figure out why MoarVM/Configure.pl doesn't work for me.
00:53 [Coke] colomon: I basically just copied linux's config, and removed 2 options that caused issues on my machine.
00:58 colomon [Coke]: I meant, doesn't work for me in Linux.  OS X seems like even more trouble.
01:23 [Coke] oh.
01:23 [Coke] someone else reported trouble on ubuntu earlier also.
01:24 [Coke] the moar announcement makes me even more meloncholy about not going this year. bummer.
01:24 diakopter [Coke]: I tried :P
01:29 [Coke] diakopter: taking someone else's money to go on vacation isn't really going to help. :)
01:29 diakopter that wasn't it :P you were gonna code awesomely
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04:46 lizmat you go sightseeing for a day, then this happens!   Congratulations jnthn++, diakopter++, japhb++ & masak++  !
04:55 Tene Just in time for the weekend. :D
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08:00 sa1 I received a build error: http://pastie.org/7992338. There was no apr.h, but a apr.h.in
08:01 diakopter sa1: a problem building apr during the moar configure step
08:02 diakopter see if you can build apr manually in its dir there
08:03 sa1 diakopter: Yes, I was able to build it there.
08:04 diakopter try making moar now?
08:04 sa1 Yes, it builds.
08:04 diakopter what command line did you use to build apr?
08:05 sa1 ./configure, make
08:05 diakopter heh. ok
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08:52 Tene Yeah, I've got the same problem.
08:52 Tene The makefile is missing a dependency
08:56 Tene Huh.  It's linked against my system libapr.
09:01 Tene Got it running and passing tests; time for sleep now, and I'll try to look into the build issues tomorrow.
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09:30 nwc10 yes, native build of parrot and the cross compiler did work out on the Rasberry Pi. But it's faster to ship bytecode across.
09:30 diakopter :)
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11:02 colomon Tene: it's not the makefile, I don't think... the high level MoarVM Configure.pl script doesn't handle APR right on our systems, for some reason.  Doesn't report it, either.  Seems that if you manually build APR, everything is fine.
11:42 nwc10 would one of the "real" owners like to add MoarVM to ohloh?
11:42 nwc10 seems to be this page: https://www.ohloh.net/p/new
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12:20 nwc10 partly I'm curious what Ohloh's analysis makes of which languages are used, in what proportions
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13:24 pmichaud I'll add to ohloh
13:25 pmichaud Added.
13:26 pmichaud https://www.ohloh.net/p/moarvm
13:27 lizmat now all we need to do is to add "Written in the Perl Programming Language, Powered by Moar" on all pages  on the internet  :-)
13:27 lizmat to get TIOBI ratings up  :-)
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14:08 rurban tadzik:  aren't you already here in Austin?
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14:17 * lizmat arrived at the hackathon
14:39 nwc10 pmichaud: thanks
14:42 pmichaud yes, looks like ohloh updated the stats
14:42 pmichaud took an estimated 50 years of effort (COCOMO model)
14:42 pmichaud starting with its first commit in April, 2012
14:42 pmichaud bwahahahaha
14:43 pmichaud ohhh
14:43 pmichaud because it's scanning the 3rdparty directory
14:44 diakopter heh.
14:44 pmichaud okay, I've set ohloh to ignore "3rdparty"... we'll see how it does.
14:44 nwc10 that's somewhat cheating. It also messes up the stats for amount and proportion of code actually needs to be maintained
14:44 pmichaud it won't update until the next analysis
14:44 nwc10 oh, cool - I didn't know it let you do that
14:45 nwc10 can it ignore the generated Unicode file?
14:45 pmichaud well, it has an "ignore files" option... I don't know if will ignore full directories.  I guess we'll find out in a day or two.
14:46 pmichaud which file is the generated Unicode one?
14:46 pmichaud I can add that also
14:46 diakopter strings/unicode_gen.c
14:46 nwc10 src/strings/unicode_db.c
14:46 diakopter er that
14:46 pmichaud okay, added src/strings/unicode_db.c
14:46 nwc10 cool, thanks. That should make the stats more sane
14:47 diakopter :)
14:48 diakopter nwc10: I'm thinking of spending time talking about what generates that
14:49 diakopter do you think that would be interssting?
14:50 nwc10 possibly. I suspect I'd be more interested in the other stuff about how a VM design hangs together. But I'm not your typical audience
14:50 nwc10 and I'm not there
14:50 diakopter heh, oh
14:51 diakopter nwc10:  can you he more specific about "hangs together"
14:51 nwc10 yes
14:52 nwc10 1) signals and threads don't really mix. So how does a VM cope with that?
14:52 nwc10 2) how do events and concurrency hang together
14:52 nwc10 3) how does the GC cope with concurrency
14:52 nwc10 4) how does IO fit in with all of the above
14:52 nwc10 5) portably :-)
14:53 diakopter k
14:53 nwc10 in that most of those are "easy" enough if you ignore the others. But it's how to do it all at once
14:53 nwc10 also, am I right in reading the docs that there isn't even an "add" operation. At least, not in the main opcode set
14:54 diakopter 1. jnthn says he has some ideas, if I wers doing it, I'd simply study mono
14:54 diakopter there is
14:54 nwc10 oh, I missed it
14:54 diakopter add_i I think
14:54 nwc10 aha, it wasn't in anything I read in docs/
14:54 diakopter see file oplist
14:54 nwc10 OK
14:55 nwc10 ah.
14:55 diakopter yes, the docs :)
14:55 diakopter definitely deprioritized
14:56 diakopter actually
14:57 diakopter perhaps most interesting to this crowd could be the p5 interop (planned/designed extremely thoroughly)
14:57 nwc10 yes, probably that would be most interesting
14:58 nwc10 more interesting than the hitlist of questions I had
14:58 diakopter though probably the next 2kloc of that should be transferred to somewhere other than my brain first
14:58 pmichaud and, afaict, not yet truly revealed yet
14:58 pmichaud (in the sense of not on the intertubes, yet)
14:58 nwc10 how many hours until your talk?
14:59 pmichaud 48, I think :)
14:59 nwc10 the beginning, not the end. :-(
14:59 nwc10 er, :-)
14:59 diakopter namedrop: TimToady and I talked through it a number of evenings and weekends
14:59 pmichaud his talk starts in 48 hours, I think.
14:59 colomon afk # shutting down computer to pack it
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15:26 diakopter boarding a plane
15:29 diakopter ffs.
15:31 diakopter guy next to me hasn't bathed in some non-small number of weeks
15:31 diakopter it'll be a long 4 hours
15:54 nwc10 pmichaud: looks like Ohloh believed you when you asked it to ignore src/strings/unicode_db.c  http://code.ohloh.net/project?pid=BOqaafY​zuQs&prevcid=1&browser=Default&am​p;did=src%2Fstrings&cid=aWOUENJT9Co
15:54 nwc10 (it's not shown there)
15:54 nwc10 but didn't believe you when you asked it to ignore the 3rdparty directory
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16:41 pmichaud ohloh might not allow me to ignore full directories
16:41 pmichaud and I'm not sure I want to list all of the 3rd party files
16:41 nwc10 certainly not manually :-)
16:42 pmichaud oh!
16:42 pmichaud checking
16:52 pmichaud found it.
16:53 pmichaud the instructions for specifying ignored files and directories was "below the fold" on the page, so I didn't see them.
16:53 pmichaud next time ohloh updates, 3rdparty should not be included.
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17:30 nwc10 yay!
17:31 nwc10 looks like i thas updated, as it's now saying Analyzed 29 minutes ago based on code collected about 4 hours ago.
17:31 nwc10 and it's 35% Perl, 62% C
17:41 pmichaud estimated as 8 person-years of effort
17:42 pmichaud might still be some more ignorage we need
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18:08 moritz jnthn's man year count 20-fold
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