Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #moarvm, 2013-10-04

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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07:57 diakopter JimmyZ: would you like to tackle the moarvm issue moritz added? (make a safemode compile flag that makes all IO/side-effects ops panic)
07:58 diakopter JimmyZ: actually it's really easy
07:59 moritz is it? don't dependencies need to be loaded dynamically or so?
07:59 diakopter make a version of the OP() macro named OP_SE  (for OP with side-effects) and just inject a panic call in that one
07:59 diakopter yeah we can disable that too
07:59 diakopter or whitelist the 9 built-ins
08:00 diakopter of nqp initially
08:13 jnthn Can't really do it this way as normal IO is needed for loading modules, etc.
08:14 diakopter boo
08:14 jnthn It maybe wants to be per comp-unit
08:14 JimmyZ mabye HLL level? like RESTRICTED.setting
08:14 jnthn No, we should have something VM level
08:15 JimmyZ ok :-)
08:15 JimmyZ maybe need --include-path ?
08:17 jnthn ?
08:18 JimmyZ an secure path for loading modules
08:18 JimmyZ or openfiles?
08:19 moritz or maybe an instruction that switches off unsafe IO after a it is called
08:20 diakopter I ike that idea
08:20 diakopter *ike
08:20 diakopter *like
08:21 jnthn moritz: Yeah, that's closer to it perhaps. But when to call it? :)
08:21 diakopter I suppose you could have a trusted compunit that could call the "enable/disable unsafe" op
08:21 diakopter signed or something ;)
08:22 moritz jnthn: in a 'RESTRICTED' setting
08:22 moritz diakopter: or simply don't have an "enable unsafe" op
08:23 diakopter hm, true
08:23 moritz std: say 'test'
08:23 jnthn moritz: Yeah, but then "use Foo;" won't work in such a mode. :)
08:24 diakopter but that's fine..
08:24 diakopter why would we want use Foo to work?
08:24 moritz jnthn: for NQP level evalbot that's fine
08:24 jnthn well, people often do stuff like
08:24 jnthn r: use Test; ok ....
08:25 moritz not in nqp
08:25 jnthn Sure. :)
08:26 diakopter jnthn: surely we can preload Test in that rakudo
08:27 moritz but we shouldn't
08:28 moritz we want evalbot usage experience to be as closely as possible to the command line
08:28 jnthn diakopter: Well, with what I suggested (per-compunit) we could bless ModuleLoader with the capability to do IO, somehow.
08:28 moritz if 'ok 1' work with camelia, it should work on the command line too
08:28 jnthn diakopter: But I shouldn't be doing security design just after waking up.
08:28 jnthn :)
08:28 diakopter AWAKEN YOUR VRAIN
08:29 jnthn shower & :)
08:31 JimmyZ btw: so moarvm will be installed as moarvm or moar? :P
08:32 diakopter Polish has too many Zs
08:32 * JimmyZ didn't see any vm installs with postfix vm though ;)
08:50 jnthn diakopter: but many are forming digraphs, or whatever they're called...
08:50 jnthn cz is just č, for example... :)
08:50 jnthn .oO( that really helped... :) )
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12:38 masak diakopter: I once got the slogan "brain in a way that sticks" from a Markov-spouting spam bot. been a favorite phrase ever since. :)
13:57 jnap joined #moarvm
14:28 * TimToady is in favor of stealing "moar" as a four-letter word, and leaving the "vm" silent
14:28 TimToady or whatever the opposite of that is
14:31 timotimo is that going to be one of the four-letter words to be banned from public television broadcasts?
14:33 lizmat joined #moarvm
14:34 TimToady we can but hope
14:35 TimToady you'll notice those words became all the more popular after that
14:37 TimToady if you *don't* steal the command "moar", someone else will, with resulting great confusion
14:38 timotimo yeah
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14:52 JimmyZ well, git was gnu command, and now is not
14:52 JimmyZ s/command/tools
14:52 * JimmyZ is in favor of moar too
14:53 JimmyZ or parrot, haha
14:57 TimToady if we grab "moar" as a command, we can initially target it to just running .moarvm files, but it could also be retargeted to other purposes later.  but it really wants a short command for that: "git" is much better in that regard than "apt-get" or "aptitude"
15:04 JimmyZ it was git-core in apt-get
15:05 * JimmyZ still does not like .moarvm ....
15:14 TimToady .moar would be fine
15:15 JimmyZ either .moar or .mbc
15:16 * TimToady wishes the term "byte code" had not been invented
15:17 TimToady it is simultaneously too specific and too general
15:17 TimToady amazing achievement for a two word phrase
15:21 TimToady .mmc -> Moar Machine Code  is closer to the truth, and easier to type :)
15:22 TimToady that fact that it's being (currently) interpreted by a virtual machine is, to my mind, completely irrelevant to its nature
15:23 nwc10 yes. Does an ARM binary become ARM bytecode when it's being run by qemu?
15:25 TimToady 'course, any 3-letter extension you pick is probably taken...
15:25 TimToady microsoft media catalog
15:26 diakopter .misc moar instruction set code
15:26 TimToady .moa and .moar appear to be less used
15:27 TimToady that's kinda silly, when "machine code" is already the name for that in the industry
15:28 TimToady (less used according to fileinfo.com)
15:28 TimToady ss/less used/not taken/
15:29 TimToady hmm, they don't list .mc either, so maybe just "moarcode"
15:33 timotimo i like .moar, to be honest
15:33 timotimo moar operations archive
15:40 TimToady moar opcode archive, but "archive" is too passive
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15:41 TimToady one wants a word that is bursting with potential :)
15:42 TimToady moar opcode artwork :)
15:42 timotimo oh that's sweet
15:42 timotimo moar opcode's absolutely radical
15:43 TimToady moar opcode argot :)
15:44 TimToady moar opcode arquebus
15:45 TimToady argosy, archery, arbor...hmm...
16:21 TimToady moar op art :)
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18:37 PerlJam Does moar have some sort of mascot yet?
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19:39 FROGGS o/
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20:04 diakopter PerlJam: you're the mascot
20:04 timotimo a boar?
20:05 * PerlJam impales diakopter on one of his tusks  ;)
20:05 TimToady .oO(if you're sitting at the table, and don't see the mascot, you're the mascot)
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21:24 diakopter .oO( also, if you're the only one at the table and you don't know it, you're the mascot )
21:27 benabik If you're the only one at the table and don't know it, you probably should be wearing a nice white coat.
21:27 diakopter yes, but you're also the mascot.
22:18 jnthn I'm +1 to making the executable moar.exe
22:18 jnthn Or just moar on non-Windows, I guess :)
22:25 diakopter me too +1 moar.exe
22:25 diakopter EVEN ON UNIX
22:25 diakopter and NOTUNIX
22:37 diakopter jnthn: ping
22:48 jnthn diakopter: pong
22:50 diakopter jnthn: wanted to point out that nqp on moarvm - --$f does something different than $f:=$f-1
22:51 diakopter haven't tried it in nqp parrot or jvm because man-or-boy doesn't seem to work there at all
22:51 diakopter $k:=$k-1 does the right thing
22:51 diakopter --$k leads to an off-by-one at the end
22:52 jnthn Probalby something silly :)
22:52 jnthn ticket it, unless you fancy fixing it :)
22:52 diakopter of course :)
22:52 diakopter fanciful thinking is my middle name
22:53 jnthn Any look on the --target=mbc bug?
22:54 diakopter I got distracted booking weekend trips to Dubai
22:54 jnthn Du bai them for a good price?
22:54 diakopter .oO( if only I were kidding )
22:54 diakopter *was
22:55 diakopter jnthn: yeah but canceled
22:57 jnthn aww
22:57 * jnthn never went to Dubai yet
22:58 diakopter $1024
23:00 tadzik PerlJam | Does moar have some sort of mascot yet?
23:00 jnthn What a binarily pleasing number...
23:00 tadzik I thought we agreed on Chimeras
23:00 jnthn tadzik: :)
23:01 jnthn kiev++ # mascot inspiration :)
23:02 diakopter our mascot should be TimToady's cat, which as far as I can tell is named "cat"
23:02 diakopter talk about cat-licensing...
23:03 jnthn Just add butterfly wings to the cat and then it's a Chimera... :)
23:04 TimToady her name is "Mary", but she's older than Perl 6, so I'm not sure that'll fly
23:08 diakopter cats eat butterflies, right?
23:09 diakopter well, kill them anyway
23:09 jnthn Mine just ineptly chased them... :)
23:09 diakopter http://www.catster.com/fil​es/kitten-butterflies.jpg
23:11 * grondilu looks at images for Moar and smiles
23:11 jnthn btw, my new laptop is lovely and light :)
23:11 * grondilu think that Mary kind sounds like Moary
23:24 TimToady Moary sounds like a horse
23:24 TimToady probably not a pony though
23:25 diakopter Hoary sounds wrong too
23:25 TimToady Moaris would sound more like a cat :)
23:26 diakopter Moarty is ... I dunno
23:26 jnthn A killer name? :P
23:26 diakopter Moariarty on the other hand..

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