Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #moarvm, 2013-10-16

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:47 Topic for #moarvm is now https://github.com/moarvm/moarvm | IRC logs at  http://irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/today
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05:58 TimToady what a boring channel :)
05:59 moritz moar fun!
06:00 JimmyZ :-)
06:11 FROGGS_ TimToady: well, you can always entertain us :o)
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10:55 diakopter moritz=+
10:55 diakopter er, moritz++
11:07 diakopter oh btw http://www.iloveopensource.io/pr​ojects/525e7211a82101497d000bb4
11:08 FROGGS_ diakopter: we should put libuv and others as a dep
11:08 diakopter heh, why :)
11:09 FROGGS_ because I think libuv is great :o)
11:09 diakopter oh, right... :)
11:09 diakopter forgot for a minute we used it.  :|
11:10 FROGGS_ hehe
11:11 FROGGS_ (and then I spend some money for libuv and force a libuv-hacker to look at our problem)
11:26 diakopter from the "people named Perl" department: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emily_Kingsley
11:27 diakopter and this guy: http://www.newschool.edu/l​ang/faculty.aspx?id=10372
11:29 diakopter and this guy: http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0674144/
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15:58 rurban did you already change the new fs_events api?
15:58 diakopter for what? libuv?
15:58 diakopter how new is it?
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15:58 rurban I had to do the libuv 3rd rewrite now. first the error not the loop anymore (huge) and now this
15:59 rurban 2 days or so
15:59 diakopter you mean rewrite of stuff that uses libuv in p2?
15:59 rurban rewrite my aio.c wrapper
15:59 diakopter in p2?
15:59 rurban they advance like rust
15:59 FROGGS do we use fs_events at all?
15:59 rurban in potion
15:59 rurban I export the whole libuv API
16:04 rurban I'm now on 0.11.14, and was on 0.10.12 before
16:04 diakopter rurban: why potion and not p2?
16:04 rurban because they use the samme vm. ps is just sugar and a parser on top of potion
16:04 rurban p2 is
16:05 FROGGS moarvm runs fine with libuv HEAD fwiw... though we use 0.11.4 or so atm
16:05 rurban potion uses scheme like predicate names, like defined?. p2 uses perl like names: defined
16:05 rurban great
16:06 rurban so you are not using the tricky, fast moving parts
16:06 rurban I still have to keep up with the process class
16:07 FROGGS there is only one issue that I know: if you print to stdout/-err, close that handle, and the delete the loop, it segfaults
16:07 FROGGS and I have no idea to get around that
16:07 diakopter FROGGS: we shouldn't be closing stdout/err
16:07 diakopter I thought I disabled that
16:08 FROGGS diakopter: I mean uv_close(handle), not nqp::closefh($stderr)
16:08 diakopter right
16:08 diakopter I thought I disabled uv_close on handles representing stdout/stderr
16:08 FROGGS and if you dont uv_close it, you should not delete the loop because this will assert when there are open handles
16:09 FROGGS diakopter: right, my local copy closes these handles, without any change in behaviour
16:09 diakopter FROGGS: we should save flags to close stdout/stderr upon global destruction then
16:09 diakopter if they've been openeded
16:10 diakopter opened
16:10 diakopter commute really &
16:10 FROGGS did that, changes nothing
16:10 rurban shouldn't you use uv_fs_close()?
16:10 FROGGS for file descriptors yes, by stderr is a tty
16:10 rurban see test/test-fs.c
16:10 rurban I see
16:10 FROGGS so uv_close takes care of it
16:11 raiph Am I right in saying the elf format makes little sense for p6 because you have to have a runtime (eg moarvm) which means elf has no advantages over bytecode?
16:11 FROGGS so, if I close it when we shut down, then it segfaults in uv__stream_destroy or so
16:11 rurban their testcase avoids tty_err
16:11 rurban because it wouldn't work on windows, i guess
16:12 FROGGS rurban: that makes me think I should create a super small test case and create a bug report...
16:12 rurban just add it to test/test-tty.c
16:12 FROGGS yeah, will do, thank you!
16:14 FROGGS raiph: well, I would like to see something for p6 what staticperl is for p5... so, having one binary (elf/windows/whatever) would be nice
16:38 diakopter FROGGS: well.....
16:41 diakopter FROGGS: fakecuteables with .moarvm bytecode embedded as binary blobs would be just fine, imho
16:42 diakopter (esp if the executable had an option to write out the binary blob to .moarvm back out again)
16:42 diakopter FROGGS: why does it need to be one executable?
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17:16 FROGGS diakopter: it would have an virtual filesystem inside, for games etc
17:17 FROGGS diakopter: so you an just copy it around
17:22 FROGGS diakopter: that means: modules it depends on, gfx and sounds files are included in the binary like in a zip file
17:27 diakopter eh
17:27 diakopter unsigned executables aren't treated very well
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17:30 FROGGS diakopter: "treated"? what do you mean?
17:31 diakopter they are looked down upon
17:31 FROGGS from what?
17:31 diakopter windows?
17:32 FROGGS well, our binaries are not signed as well
17:32 diakopter they need to be
17:32 diakopter (if they're downloaded)
17:32 FROGGS so, having an option to distribute a game beats no option I'd say
17:33 raiph .oO ( looks down from second story window and sees elf; frowns )
17:33 rurban but more important for modules and dll's
17:33 rurban like par
17:34 FROGGS diakopter: "they need to be" ... in future, or "they need to be" ... already?
17:34 raiph FROGGS, diakopter, rurban: thanks for discussing this
17:34 raiph (still listening)
17:34 FROGGS :o)
17:35 rurban on windows you simply add resources and mmap it
17:35 FROGGS I enjoyed staticperl because it lets me bundle up my little games on an old debian 3, and then  it will run on most linux boxes
17:36 FROGGS with a 3meg executable (== single file)
17:36 FROGGS which is pretty awesome
17:36 rurban the problam mwith par is the temp. unpacking. it should really mmap it. but you cannot fool the loader to mmap dll's in memory
17:36 FROGGS no system perl involved, no deps to install... it is all in one file
17:37 FROGGS rurban: this would be the perfect thing if we get this to work with moarvm (or p2 for that matter)
17:37 rurban and on windows you hardly get any library static only
17:38 rurban I have now an explicit static target in p2, but the problems are the libraries, like pcre, libuv, libtomath, ...
17:39 FROGGS yeah, staticperl is/was unix-only... for windows I used sfx-archives, which are slooooooooow on first startup
17:39 rurban with games you need sdl, and many more
17:39 FROGGS rurban: moarvm uses static builds of libuv and libtomath
17:40 rurban interesting. I needed a special trick to move away static libs when building dynamic
17:40 FROGGS there is a static build for SDL too of course, but the default of the perl5 SDL module is to build dlls
17:40 rurban maybe a special path for static libs is better (slib?)
17:40 FROGGS all deps moarvm has (the ones in 3rdparty folder) are built statically
17:41 rurban hmm
17:41 diakopter rurban: how long does potion/p2 take to build? :)
17:41 FROGGS if the lib naming would be right there were no confusion... libname.a for static, libname.dll and libname.dll.a for dynamic
17:44 FROGGS IIRC nwc10 can configure and build moarvm (-j26) in less than two seconds...
17:44 FROGGS that is my box:
17:44 FROGGS real0m4.639s
17:44 FROGGS user0m13.444s
17:44 FROGGS but it doesnt build the deps in that case I think
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17:51 raiph Having a single binary packaging option would be a feature of a given backend, not something that NQP cares about, right?
17:52 raiph s/packaging/packaging (eg ELF)/
17:53 FROGGS I think a module an totally figure out what is needed, and do the packaging
17:53 FROGGS but I guess for some backends it would be simpler and for other impossiblier :o)
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18:33 rurban potion-0.1 released: https://github.com/perl11/potion/releases/tag/v0.1
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20:26 rurban diakopter: 1m - 1m30 (dynamic + static)
20:31 jnthn Grr. I simply don't have the energy to look at extops wiring tonight.
20:31 jnthn If all else fails, I'll have a look at the weekend
20:33 jnthn One task I did realize needs doing: passing along our C/link stuff so we have the info handy to build the extops in the Rakudo repo. Suspect some moarvm --dump-config thing will suffice, if somebody wants to work on it.
20:34 jnthn Plus add an op to get at it, and then we can use it to supply NQP's -show-config too. In fact, maybe that obviates a --dump-config for Moar.
20:35 jnthn So if anybody wants to grab that task, go for it :)
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20:52 * diakopter just did a health assessment at work
20:53 diakopter ... apparently my blood pressure is in the "omg call an ambulance" range
20:53 jnthn o.O
20:53 jnthn Ouch
20:53 timotimo :(
20:58 japhb diakopter: I suggest a change of workplace.  You know, just sayin'.
21:01 diakopter o_O
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21:01 PerlJam diakopter: perhaps you were clenching your fists when they took your blood pressure  :)
21:03 diakopter yeah or micro hyperventilating like always
21:07 timotimo that's not a concept that is known to me
21:08 diakopter eh just hyperventilating very small breaths
21:08 timotimo oh
21:08 timotimo doesn't sound pleasant
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21:22 japhb timotimo, It's not.
21:22 japhb Gives you a headache pretty quickly.
21:23 japhb Does to me, at least.
21:24 timotimo i remember regular hyperventilating. it hurts in the hands
21:30 grondilu_ diakopter: don't pay too much attention to what doctors say.  They're often wrong.
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21:32 diakopter grondilu: yeah, that's the problem
21:32 diakopter the doctors' clinic I attend measure blood pressure by hand with a gauge
21:32 diakopter and it varies wildly
21:32 diakopter the readins
21:33 diakopter when I have it measured by the machine at the pharmacy or grocery store, it shows I'm in a hypertensive crisis, always.
21:33 grondilu maybe you have a phobia of the measuring apparatus or somehting.
21:33 diakopter grondilu: so I go to the Dr and they measure it and say, well, lgtm
21:34 diakopter no, the nurses at the clinic are just clueless buffoons
21:34 * grondilu noticed that the less he sees doctors, the better he feels.
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22:59 * [Coke] raises your hypertension with high ocular pressure!
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