Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #moarvm, 2013-10-22

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Time Nick Message
00:56 benabik joined #moarvm
01:36 BenGoldberg .u playing card
01:36 yoleaux U+1F0A0 PLAYING CARD BACK [So] (ūüā†)
01:36 yoleaux U+1F0A1 PLAYING CARD ACE OF SPADES [So] (ūüā°)
01:36 yoleaux U+1F0A2 PLAYING CARD TWO OF SPADES [So] (ūüāĘ)
01:38 BenGoldberg timotimo: If you ever decide to rewrite your card playing program, it would be cool if you somehow made use of the unicode playing card symbols :)
01:41 TimToady see http://rosettacode.org/wiki/D‚Äčeal_cards_for_FreeCell#Perl_6
01:45 benabik Yes and no.  Those are not common characters, so the repeated output of empty squares is less than useful.
01:49 BenGoldberg Good Point.  The perl6 rosettacode example's output is basiclly a bunch of empty squares.
01:49 BenGoldberg (To me, anyway)
01:50 TimToady works fine for me, with standard Firefox fonts
01:51 BenGoldberg On the other hand, the playing card suits, ♣♦♥♠ all look ok
01:51 TimToady what's your browser/os?
01:51 benabik Chrome/OS X
01:52 TimToady well, Google and Apple are just so old-fashioned...
01:53 BenGoldberg Chrome/XP
01:53 TimToady the cards even print fine on my terminal, and that's just, like, Linux
01:54 BenGoldberg What's the name of the font your terminal uses?
01:54 BenGoldberg And what's the terminal, for that matter? (xterm?)
01:54 TimToady Monospace 16
01:54 TimToady gnome terminal
02:19 camelia joined #moarvm
02:21 lue I can see those cards just fine everywhere. No clue which font it hails from though :) .
02:21 lue (you can always include a --i-cant-use-unicode-oh-woe-is-me command-line option.)
02:25 camelia joined #moarvm
07:01 FROGGS joined #moarvm
08:02 nwc10 nqp: say(nqp::null_s())
08:02 camelia nqp-jvm: OUTPUT¬ęnull‚ź§¬Ľ
08:02 camelia ..nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT¬ę(signal SEGV)¬Ľ
08:02 camelia ..nqp-parrot: OUTPUT¬ę‚ź§¬Ľ
08:02 nwc10 that SEGV is a feature?
08:02 masak yeah.
08:02 masak no.
08:02 masak I'm pretty sure that should not segfault.
08:03 masak g'ah, and now I'm tempted to deviate from $dayjob to patch it :/
08:03 nwc10 oh, sorry
08:03 masak not your fault.
08:03 nwc10 but no-one seemed to ask the question that I asked.
08:03 masak nwc10++
08:03 masak I thought it just as you were writing it.
08:11 arnsholt I think segfaults are always bugs (modulo NativeCall)
08:11 masak line 26 of README.markdown doesn't work on a clean moarvm clone.
08:11 masak 'perl Configure.pl'
08:11 masak needs to be 'perl Configure.pl --gen-nqp'
08:12 diakopter no..
08:12 masak any objections to me adding the '--gen-nqp' option?
08:12 diakopter the segv is a feature until someone implements the nullpmc thing in moarvm
08:12 masak 'the nullpmc thing'?
08:13 masak PMCs are a thing we are borrowing from Parrot? :/ :) :(
08:13 JimmyZ https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues/7
08:13 masak JimmyZ++
08:15 diakopter sorry, I forgot the new name for pmc was repr
08:15 masak diakopter: with respect, the two are not identical.
08:17 diakopter how? :)
08:17 masak PMCs are very close to OO classes.
08:18 masak REPRs and HOWs are (respectively) a separation-of-concerns subdivision into id and superego.
08:19 moritz afaict a REPR is a storage manager, and a PMC is an instance
08:19 masak right.
08:19 diakopter that doesn't describe any differences
08:19 JimmyZ Meta-OO vs OO
08:19 masak it does. instances are user-level, storage tends to be behind-the-scenes for most users.
08:20 masak you're supposed to be able to be a spiritually fulfilled Perl 6 user without ever needing to worry about REPRs.
08:21 diakopter as they're used in moar, they're essentially identical to pmcs in parrot
08:22 moritz now I'm confused
08:22 masak diakopter: I still dispute that, but until I've read up on things I'm tentatively ready to believe you.
08:23 masak from further down in the README.markdown, just discovered:
08:23 masak Note that at present, you need a working Parrot and NQP in order to run the
08:23 masak cross-compiler. In the future, NQP will be self-hosting on MoarVM and that
08:23 masak will not be needed.
08:23 masak hasn't that future point already occurred?
08:23 diakopter they both manage custom storage; they both implement a standard set of vtable/ops, and they both have special ops that work with only particular reprs/pmcs
08:23 donaldh joined #moarvm
08:24 diakopter masak: yep the readme is br
08:24 nwc10 masak: as I understood it, "yes" and "no" - yes it can self-host, but the build setup is not yet changed to self host
08:24 masak ok.
08:24 diakopter it is
08:24 nwc10 I'm wrong?
08:24 diakopter yes
08:25 masak so the README is simply out of date?
08:25 nwc10 good. It's nice to find that the future is already here.
08:25 jnthn diakopter: Stop conflating stuff you should know better than to conflate. Representatiosn are orthogonal to type.
08:25 masak diakopter: AFAIK, PMCs never could do the compact arrays trick.
08:25 diakopter yes, bit-rottenegged
08:25 masak jnthn: oh phew.
08:25 diakopter I didnt't mention type!'
08:25 masak jnthn: I thought I was stupid or something.
08:25 jnthn diakopter: Yes, but PMCs imply types.
08:26 masak that's what I've been saying.
08:26 jnthn diakopter: That's the difference. :)
08:26 diakopter how
08:26 jnthn .HOW indeed :)
08:26 diakopter how do pmcs imply types
08:26 jnthn diakopter: VMArray is a representation. It is used for NQPArray, BOOTArray, Perl 6's Buf/Blob - none of which are related in any way through inheritance/roles/whatever
08:27 jnthn PMCs can inherit from each other and you can ask typeof on them and you get the PMC's name.
08:27 diakopter okay, but I never used them for that
08:28 diakopter it's not essential to their form
08:28 jnthn But there's no way to use ResizablePMCArray to directly be the Perl 6 buf8, for example.
08:29 jnthn So it may not be essential to their form, but it's certainly a problem for their re-use.
08:30 diakopter no, but that's another way to say "parrot doesn't have generics yet" .. the same sort of genericity could be added to rpmca
08:31 diakopter (reprs didn't always have that either)
08:31 jnthn No
08:31 jnthn You're missing the point :/
08:32 diakopter You're missing the point ?
08:32 jnthn The way Parrot wanted you to use things like RPMCA and give them methods was to subclass.
08:32 jnthn Which is a *type* relationship.
08:33 diakopter right, "you can have any HLL, just so long as it's C"
08:36 diakopter (my point is [I thought] parrot expected you to build your language's type system on top of the more base-level pmcs [as rakudo and all the others did], same as in moar, so saying that's the only way to add "methods" seems wrong)
08:37 arnsholt No, the decoupling of type and storage in 6model means that you build your own type system
08:37 jnthn Right, what arnsholt++ said.
08:37 jnthn In Parrot, it makes sense to ask if soemthing is-a RPMCA
08:37 diakopter decoupling there just means more than one layer
08:38 diakopter what you're calling "storage" is just another type system at a lower layer
08:38 arnsholt Sort of, but it's an _orthogonal_ type system
08:38 diakopter right, but that's no different than on parrot
08:39 arnsholt 6model has two dimensions where Parrot only has one
08:39 diakopter it doesn't have to be non-orthogonal on parrot either
08:40 jnthn diakopter: That's like saying "C is just like C# because C *could* have had GC!" :P
08:40 diakopter it's not
08:40 arnsholt Well, sure. But then you do what NQP/Parrot does, and ignore as much of Parrot's type system as you can and build your own inside sixmodelobject.pmc
08:41 masak I'm glad I accidentally caused this conversation.
08:43 diakopter arnsholt: my point is that all the languages on parrot do that, necessarily
08:43 arnsholt In their own way
08:44 jnthn diakopter: That's not really true, though. Many languages made PIR subclasses of PMCs, meaning that they accidentally got the methods in ResizablePMCArray whether they wanted them or not. What's more *Rakudo* started out this way too!
08:45 masak diakopter: I guess arnsholt and jnthn's point is that while you *can* say "REPRs are just PMCs", that ignores the ways in which they are *not* like PMC, and these differences are more essential than the similarities.
08:45 masak I mean, if you squint hard enough, inheritance is like composition, too.
08:46 diakopter I explicitly stated (very clearly I thought) the ways they're identical
08:46 masak right.
08:47 diakopter and no one contradicted those ways
08:47 masak but (from what I gather) the differences are the interesting things, and they are not just surface differences.
08:47 jnthn <diakopter> sorry, I forgot the new name for pmc was repr
08:47 masak no-one disputes there are similarities.
08:48 diakopter jnthn: you really think I was saying there are NO differences?
08:48 diakopter (that's what you're implying)
08:48 jnthn diakopter: "the new name for X is Y" tends to imply such a thing. :P
08:48 * masak now ignores the discussion, as he is singularly un-interested in what diakopter thought he said :)
08:49 diakopter that's simply a nasty thing to say
08:49 masak well, the discussion was interesting when it was about the technical things.
08:49 FROGGS masak: yeah, it often starts to get boring when the copy+paste session starts
08:49 masak FROGGS: veering into the definition of things, eating its own tail.
08:50 diakopter jnthn: no, it doesn't imply that.
08:51 jnthn diakopter: Right. Clearly, you communicated comkpletely effectively and nobody found anything to disagree with.
08:51 jnthn OH WAIT
08:51 * jnthn goes back to teaching
08:51 diakopter ..in the context of "let's try to give the speaker the benefit of the doubt of having sanity"
08:52 diakopter if you wanted to point out a difference other than a name, there were a billion other things you could have said
08:52 JimmyZ .oO(REPR is the PMC container, that's the difference...)
08:53 masak JimmyZ: in the simple cases, where "container" is all there is to storage.
08:53 diakopter jnthn: I didn't/don't think I communicated completely effectively. I was trying to explain what I was trying to communicate.
08:54 JimmyZ masak: yes, storage
08:54 diakopter masak gets nasty when I try to explain things
08:54 diakopter "this is what I meant by X" "I don't give a F"
08:55 JimmyZ pmc can has method where repr can't
08:55 masak diakopter: sorry, didn't mean to be nasty to you. :) I just don't care about the "what did I really say" discussion.
08:55 masak diakopter: I thought the technical discussion was interesting.
08:59 diakopter masak: it's absurd that jnthn actually thought I was saying pmcs are identical to reprs in everything but name... so he shouldn't use that argument to claim that he doesn't understand hyperbole
09:00 diakopter masak: so you're saying no one is ever allowed to clarify things they've said?
09:00 masak diakopter: it gets terribly confusing when you say a thing and then 30 minutes later go "I didn't really mean *that*". meanwhile, everyone assumed you meant that, and we had an interesting discussion based on the thing you didn't mean.
09:00 masak when you go back to annul that original meaning, I just disengage, because I liked the conversation that actually happened.
09:01 masak and look, now we're just talking about words, after all.
09:01 * masak disengages, hard
09:01 diakopter masak: I'm not so stupid that I would believe you were so stupid as to believe I was so stupid as to believe reprs are identical to pmcs in everything but name.... surely you knew I meant somsething by the word "effectively"
09:01 masak left #moarvm
09:02 JimmyZ .oO(I can't follow you guys ...)
09:04 diakopter maybe masak will return when he wants to be less cruel and unfair
09:08 dalek MoarVM: ba0bcac | masak++ | README.markdown:
09:08 dalek MoarVM: update README.markdown slightly
09:08 dalek MoarVM:
09:08 dalek MoarVM: To say that NQP has been bootstrapped on Moar.
09:08 dalek MoarVM:
09:08 dalek MoarVM: I'm not savvy enough to update the build system and the README
09:08 dalek MoarVM: more than that. But likely others are.
09:08 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/ba0bcac61b
09:19 FROGGS diakopter: pro hint: if you are more than once in a situation where you try to explain what you meant by saying something, it might point to a problem (on your side) that you sometimes can't properly state what you are thinking/meaning
09:20 FROGGS ppl get you wrong from time to time, and I don't think that it is all the ppl's fault
09:21 FROGGS and I hope that I am being not cruel nor unfair atm
09:22 diakopter I wasn't ever disputing or doubting that fact... I was expressing shock that no one gave me the benefit of the doubt of being a sane person when interpreting what I wrote
09:23 FROGGS maybe it would help if you say earlier how exactly you meant to say it?
09:23 FROGGS just putting it in the right light early and often :o)
09:24 diakopter in fact, I did, very clearly and very explicitly.
09:24 diakopter I was annoyed that jnthn and most others seemed to not read those lines
09:25 diakopter (I said those clarifications as the very next things I said, after that original line)
09:25 FROGGS might be, but still you are often (sometimes?) in a situation where you have to explain yourself, not the others
09:26 diakopter as I said earlier, I haven't disputed or doubted that fact
09:27 JimmyZ Let's switch the topic, what about gcorch branch?
09:27 FROGGS I would suggest a rhetoric class (that is something I wanna do for at least a decade now)
09:27 diakopter I wasn't saying I was *surprised* ppl assumed I was out of my mind and spouting absurdities...
09:28 diakopter just shocked/hurt
09:28 FROGGS yeah :/
09:28 diakopter (stunned)
09:28 FROGGS stupified!
09:28 FROGGS :P
09:28 diakopter well, and annoyed they ignored my initial clarifications
09:29 diakopter a rhetoric class.
09:33 diakopter I need to take a rhetoric class when people would rather assume I'm out of my mind that the possibility I was using hyperbole?
09:33 diakopter *than
09:34 diakopter seriously?
09:36 FROGGS I suggest it because you have problems saying what you really mean
09:36 diakopter surely you are kidding
09:36 FROGGS no
09:36 diakopter that is frankly laughable
09:37 FROGGS that is what I try to say: if several ppl get your sentences wrong, the odds that several ppl are to blame are not the best
09:39 diakopter I wasn't saying they are TO BLAME [as if they should logically have concluded otherwise]. I was angry they clearly don't think highly enough of me to think that I could have been exaggerating for effect.
09:40 FROGGS diakopter: that is how irc works: one says something, others take these words without taking all-there-is about that person into accoutn
09:40 FROGGS account*
09:40 FROGGS it is just a text chat, and the person behind the lines is not that present
09:40 FROGGS but, it would be cool if we could switch the topic
09:41 FROGGS it is not #moarvm related and I think we are on a dead end...
09:41 JimmyZ so how is gcorch branch going :P
09:41 FROGGS JimmyZ++ # :P
09:41 diakopter FROGGS: yes, the person who wants to have the last word gets to claim it's a dead end. wonderful.
09:41 FROGGS diakopter: can we do that somewhere else?
09:42 JimmyZ talking about economics will be never end
09:43 JimmyZ Different economists has different thinkings about economics
09:43 JimmyZ saying it metaphor
10:11 diakopter JimmyZ: yes, and many economists very plainly think that many other economists are quite thoroughly insane.
13:00 FROGGS joined #moarvm
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14:14 FROGGS joined #moarvm
14:33 jnap joined #moarvm
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15:46 FROGGS joined #moarvm
15:54 [Coke] left #moarvm
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19:36 FROGGS jnthn: what do we do with arrays in the config? https://gist.github.com/FROGGS/6c5747‚Äč2990e44a8565d0#file-config-c-L70-L77
19:36 FROGGS strip them? concat them to a single string?
19:37 FROGGS because nqp only can handle strings
19:37 jnthn lemme look
19:38 jnthn oh wow :)
19:38 jnthn Yeah, I think you can strip for now
19:39 FROGGS there are two others, userlibs and syslibs
19:39 jnthn oh, hmm
19:39 jnthn those sound like ones we need...
19:39 FROGGS scroll to the bottom
19:39 FROGGS (all the way down)
19:39 jnthn yeah
19:39 jnthn I can imagine us needing those
19:39 jnthn I see 'em.
19:40 FROGGS yeah, problem is, that you either need the like: .join(' -l')
19:40 jnthn Well, it's just --show-config that does the wrong thing, iiuc?
19:40 FROGGS or to check that they are there, or what version they have
19:40 jnthn We can have them as arrays otherwise?
19:40 FROGGS yes
19:40 FROGGS exactly
19:40 FROGGS you can't dump them right now
19:40 jnthn oh my, there's a problem everywhere in here too :)
19:41 jnthn MVM_repr_bind_key_boxed(tc, config, MVM_string_ascii_decode_nt(tc, tc->instance->VMString, "cat"), (MVMObject *)MVM_string_ascii_decode_nt(tc, tc->instance->VMString, "cat"));
19:41 jnthn Just casting the MVMObject * doesn't mean you've got something that'll work out... :)
19:41 jnthn Typically it needs boxing to BOOTStr
19:41 FROGGS damn
19:41 FROGGS why does it work then?
19:41 jnthn There's a MVM_repr_box_s or so that can help, from reprconv.h
19:41 FROGGS k
19:41 jnthn Good question ;-)
19:42 jnthn Lax something or other I guess
19:42 jnthn Anyway, maybe put them in as arrays and then make --show-config's loop to dump them do nqp::islist and if it's a list do something sane?
19:42 jnthn Where sane could be emitting the key several times, once for each value
19:43 jnthn or key[0]=value, key[1]=value, etc.
19:43 FROGGS hmmmm, I like that
19:43 jnthn It's a bit kinder on people parsing the text than suddenly that key again, yes :)
19:45 FROGGS awesome, thanks for the guidance!
19:47 jnthn Thanks for working on the current Rakudo on Moar blocker! :)
19:58 FROGGS gist updated: https://gist.github.com/FR‚ÄčOGGS/6c57472990e44a8565d0
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: ba0bcac | masak++ | README.markdown:
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: update README.markdown slightly
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext:
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: To say that NQP has been bootstrapped on Moar.
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext:
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: I'm not savvy enough to update the build system and the README
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: more than that. But likely others are.
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/ba0bcac61b
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: fb187a0 | jonathan++ | README.markdown:
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: Merge branch 'master' into ext
20:04 dalek MoarVM/ext: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/fb187a0d6d
20:05 jnthn oh heh, didn't realize there was only that to sync wit the branch :)
20:06 dalek MoarVM/config: c532d6d | (Tobias Leich)++ | Configure.pl:
20:06 dalek MoarVM/config: write arrays as "key[i]=value" elements to config.c
20:06 dalek MoarVM/config: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/c532d6dd91
20:06 dalek MoarVM/config: feab7d2 | (Tobias Leich)++ | nqp-cc/src/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp:
20:06 dalek MoarVM/config: map nqp::backendconfig in nqp-cc
20:06 dalek MoarVM/config: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/feab7d2a26
20:06 jnthn That  MVMObject *array; at the top lof the gist looks unused?
20:06 * diakopter suggests a macro for readability (even though it's generated)
20:07 dalek MoarVM/config: a78b6f1 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (3 files):
20:07 dalek MoarVM/config: rip out --cflags and --libs
20:07 dalek MoarVM/config:
20:07 dalek MoarVM/config: Since we have nqp::backendconfig and therefore can let nqp do the hard work.
20:07 dalek MoarVM/config: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/a78b6f1f81
20:07 FROGGS jnthn: yeah, a left-over
20:08 jnthn I guess we're not gonna ask for this thing repeatedly so it's probably not worth caching it...
20:09 dalek MoarVM/config: 6ff2edd | (Tobias Leich)++ | build/config.c.in:
20:09 dalek MoarVM/config: strip left-over pointer, pointed out by jnthn++
20:09 dalek MoarVM/config: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/6ff2eddf55
20:09 jnthn diakopter: yeah, it would make it readabler...will leave it up to FROGGS+ :)
20:09 jnthn *++
20:10 diakopter .oO( /me needs to be readabler.. )
20:12 dalek joined #moarvm
20:13 FROGGS MVM_HASH_BIND_CSTRING ?
20:13 FROGGS there already is MVM_HASH_BIND(tc, hash, name, entry)
20:13 FROGGS where entry is a register
20:13 jnthn Oh, I'd just do a #define at the top of the config.h
20:13 jnthn uh, .c
20:14 jnthn So we can do add_config_entry(tc, config, "key", "value");
20:14 jnthn Or similar.
20:14 jnthn Or given it's file-local, just add_entry :)
20:14 jnap joined #moarvm
20:14 FROGGS k
20:14 jnthn or add(...) :D
20:14 FROGGS *g*
20:14 diakopter or a(...)
20:14 FROGGS haha
20:14 diakopter <WINK>
20:14 jnthn argh :P
20:14 FROGGS diakopter: I wanted to say the same right now :P
20:15 FROGGS argh()
20:15 FROGGS good idea, jnthn++
20:15 diakopter (note the #define a() in bytecodedump.c) lolol
20:15 FROGGS and a "// :P" at ever line's end
20:24 FROGGS that is way better
20:28 dalek MoarVM/config: 8b93c47 | (Tobias Leich)++ | / (2 files):
20:28 dalek MoarVM/config: make config.c way more readable, jnthn++
20:28 dalek MoarVM/config: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/8b93c47e62
20:28 jnthn diakopter++ suggested it, I just suggested names :P
20:28 FROGGS ohh
20:29 FROGGS diakopter++
20:29 FROGGS overlooked the /action
20:35 dalek MoarVM/ext: aa87a4b | jonathan++ | src/mast/compiler.c:
20:35 dalek MoarVM/ext: Preparations for writing out extops section.
20:35 dalek MoarVM/ext: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/aa87a4bbf9
20:35 diakopter jnthn++ oooooo
20:36 * diakopter tries to remember some caveat from the design conversation with jnthn/gerd
20:36 diakopter er, jnthn/benebik/gerd
20:36 diakopter er, jnthn/benabik/gerd
20:37 diakopter jnthn: btw I tried building moarvm with vs2013 rtm... seems identical,ish
20:37 diakopter also ran a profile
20:37 diakopter man-or-boy with input 18 spends 50% of time in the gc
20:38 diakopter the frame cache seems very oddly under-utilized too
20:38 jnthn Oh, I think I understand part of what's going on there
20:39 jnthn Or at least, know a potential improvement.
20:39 jnthn (on the frame cache under-util...not sure about the gc)
20:39 diakopter it was very highly utilized when I first put it in
20:40 jnthn Yeah, but that was when we had un-thread-safe and somewhat broken closure handling... :(
20:40 diakopter oh
20:41 jnthn I suspect my killing of prior_invocation (which created many worse problems) might have given us the poor frame cache utilization...
20:43 jnthn d'oh, I seem to have managed to make it a pain to emit the extops table...
20:43 * jnthn goes to tweak CompUnit a little...
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21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: 85056c4 | jonathan++ | / (3 files):
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: Build a list of extop names.
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext:
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: Saves the bytecode assembler having to reverse-engineer it from the
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: hash.
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/85056c408a
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: 30c7a84 | jonathan++ | src/mast/compiler.c:
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: Write out extops table to bytecode file.
21:21 dalek MoarVM/ext: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/30c7a84f87
21:22 jnthn Bytecode validation error at offset 866, instruction 140:
21:22 jnthn extension op 'p6init' not registered
21:22 jnthn \o/
21:22 jnthn That means the extop name is making it into the generated bytecode. And presumably the sig too
21:23 jnthn So now we "just" need to start building/emitting the load instruction for an extops library :)
21:24 FROGGS that sounds nice! :o)
21:25 diakopter jnthn++ awesome
21:26 * diakopter hopes gerd is doing well  <ping> :)
21:26 * jnthn too :)
21:27 jnthn At this rate, we'll be in a position to start attacking CORE.setting before the month is out... :)
21:28 jnthn I wonder how many thousands of lines longer it is than when I started taking it on for the JVM port...
21:28 diakopter heh.
21:29 diakopter I think lizmat++ added a bunch?
21:29 jnthn yes :)
21:29 * diakopter thinks it would be more approachable if CORE.setting could load from other files too
21:29 jnthn Well, I guess at least this time it starts froma potable state
21:29 diakopter (to break it up)
21:30 jnthn um, portable
21:30 diakopter potable indeed!
21:30 jnthn .oO( Potability! There's something I can drink to! )
21:30 diakopter nice talk title  "How to make your projects more potable"
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