Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2013-12-20

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:08 diakopter tadzik: so sleep indeed.
00:17 lue there's no way to specify multiple directories for --libpath, is there? I'm trying to make the perl6-m script work outside of rakudo :)
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05:44 * diakopter realizes that type signatures are actually a type of grammar
05:56 diakopter .. and so are dependency statements
06:04 diakopter .. as is anything that requires any kind of logical resolution
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16:31 nwc10 jnthn: I've found the cause of the GC garbage bug
16:31 nwc10 unconditionally pushing MVM args to the temp roots. Which gets all messy if they are optional named arguments that don't exist
16:47 lizmat nwc10++
16:48 lizmat I'm pretty sure jnthn will be very glad when he sees this
16:49 TimToady unless he sez sump'n like: but they're all initialized to something innocuous that could not be mistaken for a pointer
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17:18 diakopter .oO( doesn't Nick have a commit flag? )
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17:30 diakopter er, push flag.
17:44 TimToady nwc10++ is not a pushy guy
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18:49 diakopter nwc10: I can't find which branch you're on
18:53 dalek MoarVM: c506bb3 | diakopter++ | src/core/args.c:
18:53 dalek MoarVM: pushing optional arguments onto the temps stack if they are missing would be a bad thing (TM)
18:53 dalek MoarVM:
18:53 dalek MoarVM: nwc10++
18:53 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/c506bb3153
18:53 diakopter nm
18:54 diakopter TimToady: does yours make test now?
18:57 diakopter with --optimize, I mean
18:58 diakopter moritz: (or anyone) why hasn't moar-support been merged
19:10 FROGGS[mobile] joined #moarvm
19:19 FROGGS[mobile] diakopter: I dunno, I asked jnthn++ but got no answer
19:23 * moritz has no idea
19:24 moritz maybe because the setting compilation still occasiontally segfaults?
19:24 moritz also, would somebody please give nwc10++ a commit bit? :-)
19:24 moritz (for moar, that is)
19:27 timotimo something about not wanting to commit to a serialisation version or something?
19:27 FROGGS[mobile] who can do that?
19:28 timotimo we also still need to do the code that puts blobs of data into the moar bytecode files rather than base64 encoding them
19:28 FROGGS[mobile] timotimo: we dont have problem I trink
19:29 timotimo what do you trink? :)
19:29 FROGGS[mobile] (the sc version thing)
19:29 FROGGS[mobile] ohh, I missed a "that"
19:29 timotimo hm, ok
19:30 timotimo still, getting rid of the base64 stuff would probably be a little win for startup time :3
19:31 FROGGS[mobile] go ahead I'd say, but it sounded aß there is some design work needed
19:31 FROGGS[mobile] as*
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19:33 timotimo maybe it's easier than you all think :P
19:33 timotimo (i don't actually think i can just do it)
19:36 FROGGS[mobile] I guess we will need a MVMBlob to store binary stuff
19:39 timotimo Test.pm still segfaults even with the fix diakopter just committed for nwc
20:08 diakopter :(
20:08 FROGGS not for me
20:08 FROGGS make test in rakudo is clean now (for the first time)
20:08 diakopter with --optimize?
20:09 FROGGS with --optimize=1
20:09 * diakopter now reads #perl6 :)
20:10 diakopter I'll try to reproduce timotimo's err
20:11 diakopter timotimo: what's your system (so I can download the same distro/kernel)
20:12 * diakopter is feeling very ambitious today, being soon surrounded by 100 hacktivists
20:12 FROGGS *g*
20:13 timotimo diakopter: it's a fedora 20
20:13 diakopter #g0v.tw on freenode in case you're curious
20:13 timotimo er, wrong
20:13 timotimo that's remote
20:13 timotimo it's a linux mint
20:13 diakopter :)
20:13 diakopter 32/64? version?
20:13 timotimo Linux kischde 3.8.0-33-generic #48-Ubuntu SMP Wed Oct 23 09:16:58 UTC 2013 x86_64 x86_64 x86_64 GNU/Linux
20:13 timotimo 64
20:13 diakopter clang or gcc?
20:13 timotimo gcc afaict
20:13 timotimo gcc (Ubuntu/Linaro 4.7.3-1ubuntu1) 4.7.3
20:16 diakopter timotimo: which should I download? :√ http://community.linuxmint.com/iso
20:19 diakopter great, now I have to choose between Cinnamon desktop and MATE desktop, neither of which I've heard of :Ω
20:19 timotimo that's a really good question. i never saw this page before
20:19 timotimo if you have a beefy graphics card, you can safely go cinnamon
20:19 diakopter ok :∂
20:19 timotimo mate is a gnome2 fork
20:20 timotimo
20:20 diakopter gee thanks safari for displaying the utf8 of the .iso in my browser window. just what I wanted. :)
20:20 timotimo :D
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20:39 diakopter well I'll get mint 16; hopefully it still has the problem :)
20:45 * TimToady uses cinnamon, but hasn't tried to compile on mint 16 yet
20:55 * TimToady is watching the perl6-m compile go past, and wondering why --encoding=utf8 is not the default
21:00 TimToady perl6-m compile successful on Mint 15
21:03 TimToady (64-bit, cinnamon)
21:03 diakopter is optimize=1 the default nowadays?
21:03 TimToady I believe it used 3
21:05 TimToady yes, 3
21:08 diakopter me 10 years from now: "how many internets does your local internet backup archive contain?" "all of them except the quintillion most recent ones"
21:08 TimToady earlier success was on my 6-core at home; it failed to compile Test on my laptop though
21:09 * diakopter hasn't built nqp/rakudo in some .. months
21:09 TimToady trying a reconfig
21:09 diakopter let alone on moar. so I'm curious to see how fast.
21:10 FROGGS p: sub caller($o = 0) { try die; Backtrace.new[$o + 2] }; say caller(0) # I love it
21:10 camelia rakudo-parrot 413650: OUTPUT«Backtrace::Frame.new(file => "/tmp/Fq0i3AufIY", line => 1, code => sub caller($o = { ... }) { ... }, subname => "caller")␤»
21:11 FROGGS +3 actually...
21:12 FROGGS ww :o)
21:14 diakopter mint boots absurdly quickly
21:15 TimToady security updates from ubuntu are absurdly slow though, last I knew
21:16 diakopter "a new version of the update manager is available"
21:16 diakopter ok.
21:17 diakopter "enter your password to start the update manager"
21:17 diakopter ok.
21:18 diakopter .. and now 172 updates of 233 MB.
21:18 diakopter yay
21:19 diakopter well it's install gcc 4.8, and timotimo has 4.7
21:19 diakopter *installing
21:19 diakopter bah
21:22 TimToady Test still fails on laptop, blowing away install and nqp now
21:23 TimToady I wonder if it's just a function of less memory available on the laptop; thought jnthn++ said not a week or two ago
21:23 diakopter url?
21:25 diakopter this has got to be the hundredth time I've spent several minutes waiting for libreoffice and thunderbird to download/install without ever intending to use them.
21:26 diakopter thousandth if you count updates, probably
21:27 diakopter TimToady: what else did jnthn say about that
21:27 diakopter how could limited memory trigger the different behavior
21:28 TimToady he said it couldn't, cause the allocation was fixed
21:28 TimToady not based on how much memory you have
21:29 diakopter yeah; currently it never frees any of the main heaps until the very end
21:33 diakopter however, maybe therein lies the clue. if malloc changes its allocation strategy based on constrained memory, perhaps we are hanging onto some freed malloc'd pointer.
21:34 TimToady I don't think malloc cares about that
21:34 diakopter but there are lots of mallocs
21:34 diakopter maybe some reduce the break
21:34 diakopter or whatever it's called
21:34 TimToady I've never met a malloc that cares about that
21:35 TimToady but if it reduces the break, it would be unlikely to do that based on total system memory, methinks
21:36 TimToady usually it's just, "oh, the last thing before the break went away, so I can move the break back"
21:36 TimToady malloc isn't allows to move things around...
21:36 TimToady *wed
21:37 diakopter but maybe if there's less available, it tries harder to avoid fragment
21:38 TimToady maybe, but I've never met that malloc
21:40 diakopter years later, git still depends on perl for a trivial-ish function.  oddity of oddities.
21:40 diakopter .oO( guardian angel.. coattails.. )
21:48 diakopter mwilson@host22 ~/src/rakudo $ perl Configure.pl --gen-moar
21:48 diakopter Use of uninitialized value $default_backend in substr at Configure.pl line 121.
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21:50 FROGGS FIX IT"!!1
21:51 diakopter no rakudo commit bit :)
21:51 FROGGS haha
21:51 diakopter (and forced ignorance to submit a pull request)
21:53 FROGGS um, you are not even joking O.o
21:53 diakopter well..
21:53 diakopter while also poking fun/self-deprecating accurately
21:54 diakopter mint gave me gcc without giving me libc-dev
21:54 diakopter *headdesk*
21:56 TimToady how's it supposed to guess you're a dev?
21:56 diakopter :)
21:56 TimToady most people aren't, or shouldn't...
21:56 diakopter well that was quick.
21:56 FROGGS and especially a libc-dev
21:56 diakopter /home/mwilson/src/rakudo/install/bin/moar --libpath=src/vm/moar/stage0 src/vm/moar/stage0/nqp.moarvm --bootstrap --setting=NULL --no-regex-lib --target=mbc \ --output=gen/moar/stage1/nqpmo.moarvm gen/moar/stage1/nqpmo.nqp
21:56 diakopter make: *** [gen/moar/stage1/nqpmo.moarvm] Segmentation fault
21:57 diakopter very first thing it tried to use moar for, it dieded
21:59 diakopter TimToady: well, -dev is the thing that contains the std .h
21:59 TimToady my laptop still consistently dies on Test.pm, where my home computer worked.  I wonder what's different...
21:59 diakopter I can't build nqp at all
22:00 TimToady fresh from git?
22:00 diakopter right
22:01 diakopter 'course, I didn't have libc much of the way through.
22:01 diakopter trying again.
22:01 TimToady my nom-level configuration is: perl Configure.pl --backends='parrot,jvm,moar' --prefix='/home/larry/nom/install' --gen-parrot --gen-nqp=master --gen-moar=master
22:02 TimToady note the explicit =masters
22:02 diakopter I wish searching for a commit hash on google would link directly to the proper commit on github
22:02 diakopter hm
22:03 diakopter oh ok.
22:03 diakopter well I wonder why the moar-support doesn't do that :)
22:03 diakopter ah, that's better.
22:04 TimToady it also required the absolute path to install, relative didn't work, and maybe still doesn't
22:05 diakopter I've never seen nqp build that quickly
22:06 TimToady well, Configure often doesn't rebuild when you'd want it to, so sometimes you have to blow away nqp and install
22:08 * TimToady --> nap, try to get well
22:08 diakopter Stage start      :   0.000
22:08 diakopter Stage parse      : 106.056
22:08 diakopter Stage syntaxcheck:   0.000
22:08 diakopter Stage ast        :   0.000
22:08 diakopter Stage optimize   :  12.209
22:08 diakopter does that seem right?
22:08 [Coke] sureish.
22:08 diakopter oh
22:09 diakopter Stage mast       :  81.834
22:09 diakopter Stage mbc        :   0.924
22:09 diakopter Segmentation fault
22:09 diakopter make: *** [CORE.setting.moarvm] Error 139
22:09 diakopter *cry*
22:13 FROGGS make install again
22:13 FROGGS sometimes it fails after building the setting
22:13 diakopter gah.
22:14 diakopter perl -MExtUtils::Command -e cp /home/mwilson/install/bin/perl6-m /home/mwilson/install/bin/perl6
22:14 diakopter perl -MExtUtils::Command -e chmod 755 /home/mwilson/install/bin/perl6
22:14 diakopter Cannot chmod 755 /home/mwilson/install/bin/perl6:No such file or directory at /usr/share/perl/5.14/ExtUtils/Command.pm line 274.
22:14 diakopter so.. how could make install think that there's a perl6-m when there's not
22:17 diakopter ah, there's a bug
22:18 diakopter m-all: $(PERL6_MOAR) $(SETTING_MOAR) $(M_RUNNER) lib/Test.moarvm blib/lib.moarvm blib/Pod/To/Text.moarvm
22:18 diakopter $(M_RUNNER) needs to have its path
22:20 diakopter er
22:23 diakopter mwilson@host22 ~/src/rakudo $ ./perl6-m -e 'hi'
22:23 diakopter ===SORRY!===
22:23 diakopter p6sort NYI
22:23 diakopter moar: 3rdparty/libuv/src/unix/loop.c:150: uv__loop_delete: Assertion `!((((*(&(loop)->active_reqs))[0]) == (&(loop)->active_reqs)) == 0)' failed.
22:23 diakopter Aborted
22:23 diakopter FROGGS: ^ what does this mean
22:24 [Coke] diakopter: try with --ll-exception
22:24 [Coke] (given that 'hi' isn't valid, might be dying on error reporting)
22:24 diakopter yeah
22:24 diakopter what does that do
22:25 diakopter (what does the ll stand for)
22:25 diakopter low-level I'll assume
22:25 [Coke] low level
22:27 FROGGS diakopter: that libuv assertion always pops up if you don't exit cleanly
22:28 diakopter gah :(
22:30 FROGGS ./perl6-m -e 'say "hi"' should work though
22:32 diakopter yeah, does
22:38 FROGGS what optimize flags does moar got?
22:38 diakopter 3
22:38 FROGGS interesting, I guess it still fails on my box
22:38 diakopter I thought moar had a --show-config
22:41 diakopter r: say "","",""
22:41 camelia rakudo-parrot 2b027b, rakudo-jvm 2b027b: OUTPUT«␤»
22:41 diakopter r: say ".",".","."
22:41 camelia rakudo-parrot 2b027b, rakudo-jvm 2b027b: OUTPUT«...␤»
22:41 diakopter oh.
22:44 FROGGS nqp has

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