| Time |
Nick |
Message |
| 00:21 |
diakopter |
woolfy: sry I tried to reply to woolfy1 it seems |
| 00:58 |
timotimo |
this seems like a stupid idea, but can i remove a permanent root again? |
| 01:19 |
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| 07:40 |
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FROGGS joined #moarvm |
| 07:55 |
woolfy |
diakopter: well, the question was: will you please give a presentation at Fosdem about MoarVM on Saturday February 1? |
| 08:18 |
tadzik |
fosdem, hmm |
| 08:27 |
tadzik |
tempting |
| 08:40 |
|
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| 09:57 |
diakopter |
woolfy: hi |
| 09:58 |
diakopter |
woolfy: yes, Melanie and I are still planning to go |
| 10:03 |
diakopter |
nwc10: ping |
| 10:05 |
nwc10 |
braaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaanes |
| 10:11 |
diakopter |
nwc10: I got a segf |
| 10:11 |
diakopter |
when I did a --static build of moarvm |
| 10:12 |
nwc10 |
Oh. Odd |
| 10:18 |
diakopter |
nwc10: I guess it found some additional optimization opportunities? |
| 10:19 |
diakopter |
(visual studio link time) |
| 10:24 |
diakopter |
nwc10: have you tried the gc torture with clang? (is it possible?) |
| 10:24 |
nwc10 |
should be, but I don't think that ther'es clang installed on that server |
| 10:52 |
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| 11:04 |
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| 11:26 |
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| 12:29 |
jnthn |
timotimo: No, you can't remove a permroot, but note permroots are not actually objects, but addresses, and you can change the object at the address |
| 12:30 |
jnthn |
diakopter: Did a static build? Hm. Those are mostly useless these days as you can't build Rakudo with one... :) |
| 12:54 |
timotimo |
jnthn: thanks :) |
| 12:55 |
jnthn |
timotimo: I've kinda considered forcing only gen2 things to be allowed to be permroots |
| 12:55 |
jnthn |
timotimo: But fear fragility |
| 12:55 |
timotimo |
right |
| 12:56 |
jnthn |
And when nwc10++ has been de-fragiling us so much... :) |
| 12:57 |
* timotimo |
is experimenting with seccomp atop moarvm |
| 13:02 |
tadzik |
hm |
| 13:07 |
jnthn |
In random news: the other evening I did some really good fun pair programming with ingy++. We used Rakudo on Moar and didn't manage to SEGV it once, and only hit one bug over other backends. :) |
| 13:12 |
grondilu |
jnthn: how fast was it compared to parrot? |
| 13:13 |
grondilu |
.oO( though I guess I should not put too much hope in speed for now, since it's not optimised at all) |
| 13:21 |
jnthn |
grondilu: Didn't compare, but undoubtably slower given the whole sig bind stuff is very much slow-pathed on Moar righ tnow |
| 13:25 |
jnthn |
If I get chance, I will deal with that before the January Rakudo release. 'cus it doesn't matter what we say, people are still gonna go benchmark it :/ |
| 13:30 |
timotimo |
\o/ |
| 13:30 |
timotimo |
nobody but me seems excited about my moarvm sandboxing work. i wonder why that is? o_O |
| 13:31 |
jnthn |
timotimo: Well, for one 'cus I don't know what seccomp is ;) |
| 13:32 |
timotimo |
oh! |
| 13:32 |
timotimo |
yeah, the fact that it isn't portable is kind of meh |
| 13:32 |
FROGGS |
me does not know either |
| 13:33 |
timotimo |
after running prctl with the appropriate parameter, the process will no longer be able to do any syscalls besides read/write on already-open file descriptors, sendmsg/recvmsg (thus enabling new file descriptors to be passed in via unix domain sockets) and a few other harmless things |
| 13:33 |
timotimo |
alternatively, you can use the filtered mode of seccomp where you specify a whitelist for syscalls |
| 13:34 |
hoelzro |
I've been looking for a use for seccomp |
| 13:35 |
hoelzro |
iirc, it sends SIGKILL on illegal operations, right? |
| 13:35 |
timotimo |
yup |
| 13:35 |
hoelzro |
I wish it weren't SIGKILL |
| 13:35 |
hoelzro |
I feel like you should be able to handle it |
| 13:35 |
timotimo |
so does every attacker out there :) |
| 13:36 |
hoelzro |
hmm |
| 13:36 |
hoelzro |
I suppose |
| 13:37 |
hoelzro |
it would be nice to be able to differentiate beteween it and a kill() in the parent |
| 13:37 |
hoelzro |
hmm |
| 13:37 |
hoelzro |
maybe sigaction lets you? |
| 14:37 |
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| 14:48 |
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| 14:53 |
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| 15:03 |
dalek |
MoarVM: adce756 | jonathan++ | README.markdown: |
| 15:03 |
dalek |
MoarVM: Update status, add a feature overview. |
| 15:03 |
dalek |
MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/adce756800 |
| 15:14 |
timotimo |
do we have sockets in moarvm already, btw? |
| 15:14 |
timotimo |
also, i can supply more than one --vmlib, right? |
| 15:15 |
timotimo |
because right now i've implemented the moarvm seccomp stuff as a bunch of ops that i want to expose to nqp |
| 15:15 |
timotimo |
that way i can build the sandboxing logic and management in nqp rather than C |
| 15:17 |
JimmyZ |
what is seccomp? |
| 15:18 |
timotimo |
linux syscall that restricts all except a few syscalls |
| 15:18 |
timotimo |
"secure computation" |
| 15:18 |
timotimo |
you can still read/write to already-open file descriptors |
| 15:18 |
timotimo |
and with unix domain sockets you can pass file descriptors into the sandboxed process after dropping privileges |
| 15:21 |
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| 15:21 |
JimmyZ |
thanks |
| 15:21 |
JimmyZ |
:) |
| 15:23 |
jnthn |
timotimo: Yes, should be able to do --vmlib multiple itmes |
| 15:23 |
jnthn |
timotimo: I think sockets are there but not yet wired up |
| 15:23 |
jnthn |
timotimo: Getting them working from Rakudo would be awesome |
| 15:23 |
timotimo |
well, of course they are "there", we have libuv ;) |
| 15:33 |
dalek |
MoarVM: 1030d3e | jonathan++ | CREDITS: |
| 15:33 |
dalek |
MoarVM: First pass at a CREDITS file. |
| 15:33 |
dalek |
MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/1030d3e76c |
| 15:34 |
jnthn |
If you don't like your entry, well, fix it :) |
| 15:35 |
[Coke] |
I did the darwin ... oh, that was ancient history. :) |
| 15:35 |
JimmyZ |
I like it :P |
| 15:35 |
* jnthn |
just git log'd :) |
| 15:43 |
* JimmyZ |
still is curious how much .moarvm size will be cut after some s/int/int16/ or s/int/int8/ in serialization. |
| 16:02 |
jnthn |
JimmyZ: There's not all that many places we can do that. |
| 16:12 |
* timotimo |
is already glad the base64 stuff disappeared |
| 16:13 |
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| 16:13 |
arnsholt |
jnthn: Mostly sized ints, I guess? |
| 16:13 |
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| 16:13 |
jnthn |
arnsholt: Most plaes could be up to 64 bits |
| 16:15 |
arnsholt |
Yeah, and IIRC there aren't a whole lot of sized ints in NQP/Rakudo |
| 16:15 |
jnthn |
Right |
| 16:15 |
jnthn |
We could go with some fancier encoding scheme, of course. |
| 16:19 |
lizmat |
.oO( would Sereal be an option ) |
| 16:20 |
timotimo |
not necessarily Sereal, but the sized ints they have could prove useful |
| 16:26 |
timotimo |
... how do i debug "extension symbol not found |
| 16:26 |
timotimo |
? |
| 16:27 |
timotimo |
ah, doh |
| 16:31 |
timotimo |
oh, doh! i have the extops now, but i didn't map them for nqp usage |
| 16:31 |
timotimo |
how do i properly do that? :\ |
| 16:31 |
timotimo |
i mean without making a whole new nqp compiler |
| 16:31 |
timotimo |
well, a derived one, that is |
| 16:54 |
[Coke] |
r-j: say 27988/28469 |
| 16:54 |
camelia |
rakudo-jvm dddd3f: OUTPUT«0.983104» |
| 16:54 |
[Coke] |
^^ likely percentage today. |
| 16:54 |
[Coke] |
(running against nom) |
| 16:54 |
[Coke] |
yesterday was 27980, we're slowing down. :) |
| 16:55 |
FROGGS |
[Coke]: well, hard stuff is hard |
| 16:55 |
FROGGS |
ahh this was it what I wanted to ask TimToady |
| 16:56 |
FROGGS |
TimToady: how shall I implement <:L> im MoarVM? |
| 16:56 |
FROGGS |
TimToady: I guess I should compare some properties of the current grapheme to the one before, but I don't know what/how |
| 17:00 |
* [Coke] |
will have to make sure he adds at least one more roast test tonight. :P |
| 17:05 |
FROGGS |
:o) |
| 17:05 |
FROGGS |
Will Coleda is a heavy hitting Shell coder (one of the 10% most active Shell users) who loves pushing code. |
| 17:06 |
FROGGS |
not bad ^^ |
| 17:06 |
FROGGS |
ha! I am even more active than jnthn++ according to http://osrc.dfm.io :D |
| 17:17 |
[Coke] |
the only shell I really do is on the roast data, and most of the stuff I'm committing is just log files. sheesh. |
| 17:20 |
FROGGS |
nah, it is in the internet, so it must be right :o) |
| 17:23 |
PerlJam |
FROGGS: I just went through several people on http://osrc.dfm.io and it seems like all of them are or should be friends with Moritz Lenz. He's a popular guy! :) |
| 17:23 |
FROGGS |
hehe |
| 17:23 |
FROGGS |
he is :o) |
| 17:24 |
FROGGS |
the weird thing is is that a Siddhant Saraf shows up for many ppl, and the only thing I know is that he made a PR once |
| 17:25 |
PerlJam |
I even half expected moritz's own "report card" to say that he's friends with Moritz Lenz |
| 17:25 |
FROGGS |
*g* |
| 17:25 |
PerlJam |
(but no, he's friends with you! :) |
| 17:26 |
diakopter |
FROGGS: there's guidance how to do the clusters |
| 17:27 |
diakopter |
imho we should store a list with the string of the offsets of ones connected to the prior one, since that should be the lowest amount of information |
| 17:28 |
diakopter |
er not string of the offsets |
| 17:28 |
diakopter |
list of the offsets |
| 17:29 |
FROGGS |
ahh, yeah |
| 17:30 |
FROGGS |
and +(this list) is the number of graphemes in it |
| 17:30 |
FROGGS |
(or it is rather one less) |
| 17:30 |
FROGGS |
hmmm, so for .chars and for <:L> we would need that list... |
| 17:31 |
FROGGS |
k, then I am thinking about how to calculate this list, and try to understand how clusters are made |
| 17:44 |
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| 18:09 |
moritz |
I get |
| 18:09 |
moritz |
Stage start : 0.000 |
| 18:09 |
moritz |
MVMCallCapture cannot be copied |
| 18:09 |
moritz |
make: *** [CORE.setting.moarvm] Error 12 |
| 18:09 |
moritz |
while trying to build rakudo-m |
| 18:10 |
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| 18:12 |
timotimo |
you get that from an outdated ... either nqp or moarvm |
| 18:14 |
timotimo |
moritz: ^^ |
| 18:15 |
moritz |
well, I've used --gen-moar |
| 18:15 |
moritz |
anyway, now trying again with leading edge |
| 18:16 |
moritz |
I'd love to be able to build it, 'cause I have some Makefile patches I'd like to test :-) |
| 18:17 |
diakopter |
moritz: you have to --gen-moar=master I think |
| 18:19 |
moritz |
ok, I got farther this time |
| 18:29 |
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| 18:38 |
timotimo |
didn't we get a moar revision bump just before the merge, though? |
| 18:40 |
moritz |
we still have a week until the release, right? :-) |
| 18:42 |
benabik |
I think Moar is installing the LDFLAGS to build libmoar into is config, which is then being used by Rakudo. That isn't correct and kills build on OS X. |
| 18:43 |
benabik |
Two problems: 1) OS X gets `-install_name install/lib/libmoar.dylib` in LDFLAGS, which is wrong for anything other than libmoar. 2) There's no `-lmoar`, so the linker can't find all the moar functions. |
| 18:53 |
TimToady |
FROGGS: why would <:L> want to know anything about the previous grapheme? |
| 18:54 |
FROGGS |
TimToady: isn't <:L> the equivalent of \b ? |
| 18:54 |
TimToady |
no, it's just the various L categories of letter |
| 18:54 |
FROGGS |
ahh |
| 18:55 |
TimToady |
just as <:S> is the various kinds of spaces |
| 18:55 |
TimToady |
or is that symbols, I forget |
| 18:55 |
TimToady |
and Z is the odd stuff |
| 18:55 |
FROGGS |
looks like I need to read a lot about that stuff |
| 18:57 |
TimToady |
p: $_ = "A"; say /<:L>/; say /<:Lu>/; say /<:Ll>/ |
| 18:57 |
camelia |
rakudo-parrot dddd3f: OUTPUT«» |
| 18:57 |
TimToady |
hmm |
| 18:58 |
TimToady |
n: $_ = "A"; say /<:L>/; say /<:Lu>/; say /<:Ll>/ |
| 18:58 |
camelia |
niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«regex ANON(Any \self) { ... }regex ANON(Any \self) { ... }regex ANON(Any \self) { ... }» |
| 18:58 |
TimToady |
n: $_ = "A"; say m/<:L>/; say m/<:Lu>/; say m/<:Ll>/ |
| 18:58 |
camelia |
niecza v24-109-g48a8de3: OUTPUT«｢A｣｢A｣Nil» |
| 18:58 |
TimToady |
p: $_ = "A"; say m/<:L>/; say m/<:Lu>/; say m/<:Ll>/ |
| 18:58 |
camelia |
rakudo-parrot dddd3f: OUTPUT«｢A｣｢A｣Nil» |
| 19:52 |
moritz |
benabik: did my last rakudo commit fix the parrot build issue at least? (you need to reconfigure) |
| 20:07 |
benabik |
moritz: Trying now. |
| 20:07 |
benabik |
moritz: Actually, given that it's been running for more than a minute, it probably worked. :-) |
| 20:20 |
jnthn |
Happy to see that having merged stuff has resulted in some fixes already :) |
| 20:24 |
timotimo |
jnthn: besides nativecall and deriving the compiler, do you know a mechanism to get my vmlibs introduced to nqp? |
| 20:30 |
moritz |
patch the vm? |
| 20:31 |
jnthn |
timotimo: By passing --vmlibs or so at command line? |
| 20:37 |
benabik |
moritz: Build complete! Thanks. Now to de-tangled the LDFLAGS mess. |
| 20:38 |
jnthn |
timotimo: What piece are you running into? |
| 20:38 |
jnthn |
timotimo: I mean, Rakudo has its set of extops |
| 20:38 |
jnthn |
timotimo: See src/vm/moar/Perl6/Ops.nqp |
| 20:38 |
jnthn |
timotimo: There's a few pieces of wiring needed. |
| 20:47 |
timotimo |
precisely. how do i get at the right levers to hook up my extension methods to be nqp:: methods? |
| 20:47 |
timotimo |
not methods, functions |
| 20:47 |
timotimo |
well, ops really |
| 20:48 |
timotimo |
oh! |
| 20:48 |
timotimo |
that seems easy |
| 20:48 |
timotimo |
thanks for the nudge in the right direction :) |
| 20:57 |
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| 21:00 |
jnthn |
Whee. make test of NQP on MoarVM runs in 16s (non-parallel) on my box here at home |
| 21:01 |
diakopter |
thot u sed raduko |
| 21:01 |
jnthn |
lol, I did it in 6s by passing --jobs=16 |
| 21:02 |
jnthn |
Lemme see what I can do Rakudo sanity test in with TEST_JOBS=6 or so |
| 21:02 |
FROGGS |
jnthn: can you make it run my v5 spectest in (way) less than 30 minutes? :o) |
| 21:03 |
jnthn |
FROGGS: Probably, with time and optimization :) |
| 21:04 |
FROGGS |
don't you say :D |
| 21:04 |
FROGGS |
"with time" |
| 21:04 |
FROGGS |
that is the point |
| 21:07 |
jnthn |
Rakudo "make test" is 7s |
| 21:07 |
jnthn |
FROGGS: I assume you are running with --jobs=a-number-bigger-than-one? :) |
| 21:07 |
jnthn |
On a bit of hardware where that is actually useful? |
| 21:08 |
FROGGS |
jnthn: -j3 atm, having 4 cores |
| 21:08 |
jnthn |
4 real or virtual? |
| 21:08 |
FROGGS |
there were test aborts using -j4 when it hit the recursion test |
| 21:09 |
FROGGS |
it is a Core i5 |
| 21:09 |
jnthn |
I've 4 real, 8 virtual, and found 6 works out nicely for parallelizing but retaining responsiveness |
| 21:09 |
FROGGS |
so 2 cores plus HT |
| 21:09 |
jnthn |
ah, ok |
| 21:09 |
jnthn |
I'm i7, 4 + HT = 8 |
| 21:09 |
FROGGS |
so three is about right :o) |
| 21:09 |
jnthn |
Mebbe I should get myself one of those dustbins^WMac Pros that has 8 cores some day... :) |
| 21:10 |
FROGGS |
I would love to let my other PCs here help... like a render farm |
| 21:10 |
jnthn |
Oh, that'd be intersting |
| 21:10 |
jnthn |
Distributed testing |
| 21:11 |
FROGGS |
not only testing |
| 21:11 |
FROGGS |
if you had perl6 servers in your LAN you could maybe share other load as well |
| 21:11 |
jnthn |
True :) |
| 21:12 |
FROGGS |
not file io or some such, but still |
| 21:12 |
FROGGS |
would be interesting for me at work too, where we have servers with >16 cores each, and most of these servers are bored |
| 21:13 |
FROGGS |
except one, usually |
| 21:16 |
FROGGS |
is there an (e)Book I should read in order to get the missing Unicode bits together? |
| 21:16 |
FROGGS |
TimToady / diakopter ^^ |
| 21:17 |
FROGGS |
damnit, and I even tried to avoid doing it >.< |
| 21:17 |
FROGGS |
and now I find myself volunteering |
| 21:18 |
diakopter |
FROGGS: what bits are missing |
| 21:18 |
FROGGS |
well, some sort of road map and a clear vision mostly |
| 21:19 |
FROGGS |
diakopter: I just have the feeling that I miss fundamental knowledge in order to make it right (or even work) |
| 21:20 |
diakopter |
did you read the hundreds-of-pages unicode pdfs? |
| 21:20 |
FROGGS |
no |
| 21:20 |
diakopter |
they contain recommended efficient algorithms for all the things |
| 21:21 |
FROGGS |
ohh |
| 21:21 |
FROGGS |
good point |
| 21:23 |
* FROGGS |
gets http://www.unicode.org/versions/Unicode6.2.0/UnicodeStandard-6.2.pdf |
| 21:23 |
FROGGS |
690 |
| 21:23 |
FROGGS |
"yay" |
| 21:43 |
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| 22:03 |
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| 23:03 |
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