Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2014-03-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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05:23 dalek MoarVM: 5ef6691 | jimmy++ | / (8 files):
05:23 dalek MoarVM: Add CArray REPR
05:23 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/5ef66917c4
05:24 dalek MoarVM: 3ef8643 | jimmy++ | / (8 files):
05:24 dalek MoarVM: Add CStruct REPR
05:24 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/3ef86439ce
06:02 dalek MoarVM: b0aa29f | jimmy++ | src/6model/reprs/CStruct.c:
06:02 dalek MoarVM: small fixes
06:02 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/b0aa29ff00
06:36 dalek MoarVM: 87bacef | jimmy++ | src/6model/ (3 files):
06:36 dalek MoarVM: small refactor
06:36 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/87bacefacb
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07:03 dalek MoarVM: 840ab82 | jimmy++ | src/io/ (3 files):
07:03 dalek MoarVM: change MVM_stat_* macro to uppercase
07:03 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/840ab82197
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09:59 jnthn hmm, a tcg todo is "- Add float and vector support." :)
10:00 nwc10 tcg? A JITting type thing?
10:00 jnthn The float support is quite a missing thing :)
10:00 jnthn nwc10: Yeah.
10:00 jnthn nwc10: Got some interest from somebody to work on it in GSoC, so pondering options a little :)
10:07 brrt here's the interest :-)
10:08 brrt although i've learned that i only have a week! left to apply
10:08 brrt :-o
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10:20 jnthn :-O
10:20 jnthn Well, we can make that.
10:20 jnthn I'm willing to mentor. :)
10:22 brrt fortunately so :-)
10:22 brrt i hope to have some time for it this weekend
10:24 brrt many things to be planned, worked out
10:25 nwc10 I thought that the real "skill" in proposal writing is to figure out a description which sounds good, is actually viable, but is sufficiently flexible it doesn't commit to any kind of hard pass/fail deliverable
10:26 nwc10 ie, as long as the student works reasonably hard and diligently, something will be delivered which is useful
10:27 brrt …. i have slightly higher hopes than 'something' personally
10:27 brrt :-)
10:28 brrt but not really the brain space left to think too deep about it
10:31 jnthn So long as you have moar brain space in the summer :P
10:32 * brrt is finally going to look up the word 'moar'
10:32 brrt ah i see
10:33 jnthn Stands for Metamodel On A Runtime :)
10:33 jnthn Sicne the VM came out of taking 6model and sticking a runtime around it :)
10:33 brrt that i knew
10:34 timotimo is there something that must be done on moarvm to flush stdout when we're breaking off execution with a stack trace?
10:34 timotimo or is that something for nqp?
10:45 brrt … one of my ideas for now is that you might need / want to represent a JIT-ed call frame / stack somewhat different from a non-jitted one
10:46 brrt and that you might want to use a REPR for that so that the gc can trace it
10:46 brrt .. probably call frames are already REPRS
10:51 timotimo MVMStaticFrame is a repr at least
10:54 timotimo well, and there's MVMCode, which seems to be something different, but is contained in MVMStaticFrame as a pointer
10:55 brrt uhuh
10:55 brrt i'll need to check that out, haven't really got time for that
10:55 brrt but thanks for the pointer :-)
10:55 timotimo i didn't invest much time in the analysis either >.<
10:57 * brrt off for lunch
11:24 jnthn We should keep JITted ones the same at first.
11:24 jnthn 'cus it makes your deopt a lot simpler.
11:44 JimmyZ jnthn: how hard to add float support?
11:47 timotimo probably depends on the number of supported backends? :\
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12:12 * brrt back from lunch
12:29 jnthn JimmyZ: No clue. :)
12:29 jnthn JimmyZ: But my question is, "if that's missing what else is"
12:30 jnthn JimmyZ: Not to mentin that it has the extra abstraction layer problem, which I think might help us at first, but hinder us in the long run.
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12:32 JimmyZ jnthn: agreed, I like the dynasm one if the generator is written by perl 6, but by lua :P
12:33 JimmyZ btw
12:33 JimmyZ not serious
12:34 jnthn It's not a runtime dependency, though
12:34 jnthn It's not even a buidl dependency
12:34 JimmyZ yeah
12:34 jnthn In so far as we can check in the .c file
12:34 JimmyZ just developer needs it :P
12:34 jnthn So then it's only a tiny dependency for anybody who is going to hack on the JIT :)
12:34 jnthn A full Lua is 200KB or so :)
12:35 JimmyZ yeah, to me, dynasm is much easy than tcg
12:36 JimmyZ because it has less abstraction
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14:51 brrt not that it is super-important, but lightning doesn't seem that hard, even if a bit RISC-y
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15:51 jnthn brrt: lightning gives us licensing issues though :(
15:51 brrt oh
15:51 brrt i see
15:52 brrt fair enough
15:52 brrt actually, no, that is not fair though
15:52 brrt one free software project not being able to use another free software project because of licensing is just madness
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15:53 brrt we're working together, people!
15:53 jnthn Apart from when we aren't.
15:53 jnthn If you're Stallman, LLVM is a "huge setback".
15:54 jnthn 'cus it's not GPL'd.
15:54 jnthn If your interest is in "enforcing freedom" then the GPL makes sense.
15:54 brrt …. i'm sorry but i had to laugh about that
15:54 jnthn I'm more in this because I like making nice things and sharing them. :)
15:54 brrt 'i thought i could organise freedom'
15:54 brrt didn't know stallman was scandinavian
15:54 jnthn So my concerns/motivations for doing open soruce are entirely different.
15:55 brrt well, yeah, i guess mine too
15:55 japhb__ jnthn: That would presumably be why you call it 'open source' instead of 'free software'.  :-/
15:55 jnthn japhb__: Right.
15:56 japhb__ (That :-/ was about the war of words, not you, of course.)
15:56 jnthn japhb__: Well, I know I choose licenses that folks who want to own the meaning of "free software" would get upset about, so it's easier to just say "open source" :)
15:57 japhb__ nodnod.  I sometimes end up just using 'FOSS' as a "Look, I don't plan to grind your axe either way.  That's irrelevant to the current discussion."
15:58 jnthn *nod*
15:59 brrt it is hardly ever relevant
16:00 brrt but anyway
16:00 brrt :-)
16:02 japhb__ brrt: Yep.  But some otherwise good to work with people will get their hackles up if you "wear the other gang's colors"
16:03 brrt people and their tribes
16:03 japhb__ I wonder how many metaphors I can mix there.
16:03 brrt some people will get angry when i telll them i have - gasp - perl5 programs
16:03 brrt can't make everybody happy :-)
16:03 jnthn THEY'RE SCRIPTS!! :P
16:03 jnthn ;)
16:03 japhb__ LOL
16:04 * japhb__ has a plan to make everyone happy -- which involves nitrous oxide
16:09 jnthn Well, it's getting towards dinner time here... :)
16:10 jnthn .oO( nitrous...that's slang for nutritious, right? )
16:13 brrt right :-D
16:23 jnthn Time to find a drink/nom and head home... bbott *
16:23 jnthn &
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16:27 brrt yeah, me too
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16:32 FROGGS be back old time traveller?
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17:42 TimToady yes, back when he's a trainee again
17:43 FROGGS I hope not, I like him as he is :o)
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18:21 jnthn "on the train" :)
18:31 TimToady as I said, when you're a trainee :P
18:32 jnthn :D
18:35 dalek MoarVM: c1b60eb | jonathan++ | build/Makefile.in:
18:35 dalek MoarVM: Install missing dyncall headers.
18:35 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/c1b60eb9b4
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19:18 nwc10 jnthn: All tests successful.
19:27 jnthn nwc10: For...Rakudo?
19:27 jnthn nwc10: Assume this means "above patch fixes the Rakudo build on latest Moar"?
19:30 nwc10 yes.
19:53 jnthn Grr...looks like Moar's shell is blindly turning /s to \s...
20:16 cognominal a moar shell? what is that? like a unix shell?  I thought that moarvm was the meat not the shell.
20:18 jnthn cognominal: the shell op
20:21 cognominal jnthn++
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20:41 dalek MoarVM: f3599cb | jonathan++ | src/io/procops.c:
20:41 dalek MoarVM: Don't \ every / on nqp::shell on Windows.
20:41 dalek MoarVM:
20:41 dalek MoarVM: Otherwise we screw up args like /nologo and so forth.
20:41 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/f3599cb542
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22:40 nwc10 ./moar --version
22:40 nwc10 This is MoarVM version 2014.02-77-gc1b60eb
22:42 nwc10 the key part being: Linux raspberrypi 3.10.25+ #622 PREEMPT Fri Jan 3 18:41:00 GMT 2014 armv6l GNU/Linux
22:42 nwc10 and it's old - only 256M of RAM
22:43 nwc10 (no swapping. onto NQP...)
22:43 jnthn yes, but can it build NQP? :P
22:43 nwc10 no.
22:43 nwc10 MAST::Local index out of range
22:45 jnthn ugh
22:45 nwc10 at gen/moar/stage2/QAST.nqp:4818  (src/vm/moar/stage0/QAST.moarvm:assemble_to_file:19)
22:45 nwc10 and a lot more ugh
22:45 nwc10 I should go to bed
22:45 nwc10 about an hour ago
22:47 jnthn 'night
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23:41 dalek MoarVM: f8fdc70 | jnthn++ | src/6model/reprs.c:
23:41 dalek MoarVM: Register CStruct.
23:41 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/f8fdc70b09
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