Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2014-08-25

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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07:11 sergot o/
07:33 FROGGS o/
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08:06 brrt ok, interesting bug by tgt
08:06 brrt it's not sensitive to JIT-ting, so that is a thing
08:08 timotimo something about handlers not getting merged properly perhaps?
08:13 brrt ehm.... d'you think?
08:14 brrt i think it has something to do with the magic $_ lexical
08:14 brrt (duh)
08:14 brrt i mean to say
08:14 brrt i don't know how default {} is actually implemented
08:26 timotimo --target=ast and --target=optimize are your friends
08:26 * timotimo will be afk for a long bit
08:27 brrt oh, yes
08:27 brrt and the spesh log of course :-)
08:32 brrt in other, better news, /me finally had an epiphany on how to use the SSA form to aid with register assignment and allocation
08:32 brrt also known as 'why phi nodes are cool'
08:49 timotimo sounds good :)
08:52 brrt basically, phi nodes form the constraints from which values can come? i think that's the way i'd like to put it, and i'm not sure that i'm correct about it
08:53 brrt but that means that if you can ensure that both the 'sides' of the phi node use the same register for the same value, you can keep the value in a CPU register
08:54 brrt so that seems like a tractable problem
08:54 brrt has jnthn landed ok, btw?
08:58 lismat I think jnthn should be somewhere on the ground now
08:58 lismat his flight left from Sofia 14 hours ago or so
08:59 * brrt wonders if there is a way we could set spesh logging only for the actual script and not for the compiler
08:59 brrt hmm yeah
08:59 lismat even for a lexical scope would be nice
08:59 lismat would help in the profiler as well
08:59 brrt did you know he had to fly with an actual propeller plane for the last pace of his journey?
09:00 lismat wouldn't be surprised....  turboprops are very efficient, though loud
09:00 brrt hmm yeah, but i'm not about to design a DSL for logging options on a monday morning :-)
09:00 brrt hmm
09:00 brrt i hadn't thought of them as efficient
09:00 brrt i thought of them as 'scary'
09:00 lismat in the late 80's I used to take a turboprop for the last 200 km from Chicago to Champaign Urbane
09:01 brrt you're still in sofia, though, right?
09:01 lismat most of those planes can fly *without* engines
09:01 lismat yup, still in Sofia
09:01 lismat plane leaves in ~ 18 hours
09:01 lismat not sure how many of those we'll be sleeping
09:02 brrt or should i say СОФИА
09:02 brrt :-)
09:02 lismat we're with 13 people now in our room... :-)
09:02 brrt 13 people? all perl folks?
09:02 timotimo brrt: maybe we could introduce ops like speshlogenter and speshlogexit and have them control when spesh should start loggin and when it should stop
09:03 timotimo (well, the stopping part is probably not that important)
09:03 timotimo that way we'll cut a good chunk of the startup specialization
09:03 brrt hmm
09:03 brrt yeah, i'd still suspect some times you want those logging
09:03 timotimo in that case you just don't supply the flag that turns that on
09:03 timotimo it'd be similar to --profile
09:03 brrt virtualbox y u always one release behind the kernel
09:04 brrt hmm
09:04 brrt anyway, not designing a DSL for logging on a monday morning just yet
09:04 brrt just thinking it'd be cool
09:04 timotimo yeah :)
09:05 timotimo it'd be nice if the spesh log would output at least the first line number annotation
09:05 timotimo so that corellating stuff to code would be easier if you have a big pile of speshlog to search through and you get 100 different '' named entries :)
09:05 brrt that is not so simple to acquire fwiw
09:05 * brrt nods
09:05 brrt anyway, afk for a bit
09:06 timotimo OK
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09:23 lismat tell brrt yes, all perl folks
09:25 lismat having a programmatic spesh on/off switch could also be useful once we have official releases
09:25 lismat and it turns out an official release has a bug, and the only way around it would be to switch off spesh
09:25 lismat but then the program would run a lot slower
09:25 lismat being able to switch spesh off selectively could then be a good workaround for some class of problems
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09:28 timotimo we were actually talking only about spesh log output so far
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13:23 mj41 Hi. Very nicely done  http://www.brendangregg.com/Perf/linux_observability_tools.png ( http://www.brendangregg.com/linuxperf.html ).
13:24 cognome I don't know if there exists the same for modern versions of Solaris.
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14:37 [Coke] ... I should ask the guy I know who works on oracle/sun HA stuff if we can get a test login somewhere. :|
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15:19 brrt timotimo: i'm fine with extending programmatic control to speshing
15:22 brrt but... i'm wondering about how to do that exactly
15:22 brrt i'm not sure if perl6 has some standard interface to the compiler
15:22 brrt (it should have, if you ask me. python has it.)
15:24 brrt lizmat: how'd your talk go?
15:24 brrt same question to jnthn, if he's here
15:26 nwc10 hopefully jnthn is in bed, because that would mean that he's finished travelling
15:27 brrt we could also implement a not-speshed trait, i think, which would default to nop on other platforms than moarvm
16:30 brrt yay, new wingolog: http://wingolog.org/archives/2014/08/25/revisiting-common-subexpression-elimination-in-guile
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16:53 brrt i'm all alone here and not sufficiently motivated to do real bugfixing :-(
16:54 lizmat hi brrt
16:54 brrt hi brrt :-)
16:54 brrt how'd your talk go
16:54 lizmat back again from errands and afk and stuff
16:54 brrt hi lizmat
16:54 brrt oh i'm dumb
16:54 lizmat my talk was *way* too shirt
16:54 lizmat *short rather
16:55 lizmat so it also was a Q&A for about 20 mins
16:55 lizmat and then I let them go for an early lunch
16:55 brrt :-)
16:55 brrt any idea when the videos will be posted?
16:56 lizmat matter of weeks
16:56 brrt i see
16:56 brrt did you get to see jnthn's talk?
16:57 lizmat yes...
16:57 brrt how was it?
16:57 lizmat it was very nice to see it making thumbnails and uploading them all at the same time
16:57 brrt oh, yes, i recall now
16:57 lizmat although I feel we need a better way for throttling work load
16:57 brrt hmm
16:58 lizmat perhaps some sugar...
16:58 brrt is the code online somewhere that i could see?
16:58 lizmat the slides are not posted yet, afaik
16:58 brrt ugh, github has changed again
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17:00 brrt i'm with timotimo basically that the spesh log could really use file and line number annotations
17:00 brrt so that will be my first project tonight
17:01 lizmat ++brrt
17:01 lizmat afk mostly again&
17:02 brrt yeah, dinner &
17:02 brrt have fun in sofia :-)
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17:46 timotimo brrt: jnthn actually posted the slides: http://jnthn.net/papers/2014-yapceu-async.pdf
17:49 brrt ooh very nice
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18:05 cognome jnthn++
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18:18 [Coke] running under a high load on OS X, t/spec/S03-operators/subscript-adverbs.t died with no TAP output
18:19 [Coke] runs fine standalone.
18:29 brrt hmm? that's weird
18:29 brrt maybe malloc failed and we died
18:29 brrt i can imagine that happening
18:31 * lizmat suspects .WHICH breakage
18:34 brrt hmm what's .WHICH ?
18:34 brrt oh
18:34 brrt i know
18:36 lizmat hehe...  that what is now partially an address...
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18:47 brrt oh, that thingy
18:47 brrt i recall that discussion
18:47 brrt that is ... a pain
18:47 brrt there may be some nice ways arround it, though
18:48 * brrt bbiab
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20:49 dalek MoarVM: a246bbd | (Bart Wiegmans)++ | src/spesh/dump.c:
20:49 dalek MoarVM: Add filename to spesh log
20:49 dalek MoarVM:
20:49 dalek MoarVM: This allows us to correlate spesh frames with source code
20:49 dalek MoarVM: hopefully a bit easier
20:49 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/a246bbd726
20:54 dalek MoarVM: 2966c01 | (Bart Wiegmans)++ | src/spesh/dump.c:
20:54 dalek MoarVM: Don't leak memory when dumping the filename info
20:54 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/2966c01cc1
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21:11 tgt m: Int but False
21:11 camelia rakudo-moar c793d8: OUTPUT«(signal )»
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21:53 lizmat tgt: confirmed locally
21:54 lizmat r: Int but False
21:54 camelia rakudo-{parrot,jvm} c793d8: ( no output )
21:54 camelia ..rakudo-moar c793d8: OUTPUT«(signal )»
21:54 tgt m: Int.clone()
21:54 camelia rakudo-moar c793d8: OUTPUT«(signal )»
21:55 lizmat $ MVM_SPESH_DISABLE=1 6 'Int but False'
21:55 lizmat Segmentation fault: 11
21:55 lizmat so appears to not be spesh related
22:02 tgt Where are nqp:: ops implemented? Specifically looking for nqp::clone
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22:02 hoelzro tgt: you can find the mappings in the nqp repo
22:02 hoelzro src/vm/moar/QASTMoarMappings or something
22:02 * hoelzro looks
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22:03 hoelzro src/vm/moar/QAST/QASTOperationsMAST.nqp
22:03 hoelzro QAST::MASTOperations.add_core_moarop_mapping('clone', 'clone', :decont(0));
22:03 hoelzro so it binds directly to the Moar clone instruction (which it pretty typical)
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22:06 hoelzro and Moar ops are impld' in src/core/interp.c
22:06 hoelzro clone starts on line 2558
22:07 tgt_ Thanks hoelzro
22:07 hoelzro np
22:08 tgt_ So does that correspond to MVM_OP_clone? Or some other clone?
22:08 hoelzro I believe that's it
22:08 hoelzro I've just gotten used to searching for OP(clone) in src/core/interp.c
22:16 tgt_ Well, that's not something I can understand without spending some time with moarvm.
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22:17 hoelzro it takes a bit of time, yes =)
22:17 hoelzro but that's where you start
22:17 tgt_ :)
22:18 tgt_ Any suggestion about where to start? Are there docs?
22:18 hoelzro I think there are some in the repo
22:18 hoelzro I'm a beginner with Moar myself
22:26 tgt_ Yup, found them. Thanks.
22:26 tgt_ Is there a way to get perl6-m to print a stacktrace?
22:27 hoelzro tgt_: a native stack trace, or a Moar one?
22:28 tgt_ Uh. What do you mean?
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