Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2015-05-06

| Channels | #moarvm index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
01:08 TimToady joined #moarvm
03:34 jepeway joined #moarvm
04:07 vendethiel joined #moarvm
04:49 vendethiel joined #moarvm
06:01 harrow joined #moarvm
06:09 vendethiel joined #moarvm
07:00 FROGGS joined #moarvm
07:03 vendethiel joined #moarvm
07:04 Ven joined #moarvm
07:20 FROGGS joined #moarvm
07:54 zakharyas joined #moarvm
08:07 colomon joined #moarvm
08:12 Ven joined #moarvm
08:12 FROGGS ha!
08:13 FROGGS why does push_X in interp.c has MVM_SC_WB_OBJ while unshift does not?
08:13 FROGGS jnthn: commenting out that MVM_SC_WB_OBJ for push_X makes push work...
08:13 FROGGS the question is: what does that mean?
08:15 vendethiel joined #moarvm
08:18 Ven joined #moarvm
08:58 vendethiel joined #moarvm
09:00 colomon joined #moarvm
09:55 vendethiel joined #moarvm
10:28 FROGGS joined #moarvm
10:47 Ven_ joined #moarvm
10:51 FROGGS joined #moarvm
12:16 brrt joined #moarvm
12:25 vendethiel joined #moarvm
12:27 masak FROGGS: well, it's a write barrier, but you probably know that already.
12:28 masak FROGGS: at a guess, removing the write barrier "makes push work" within quotes because there is some race that could be triggered but that you're not triggering.
12:29 masak FROGGS: the only reason I could see unshift not needing a wb is if it does everything completely safely by atomically moving the pointer to the array itself. but more likely that's just an oversight, and a race waiting to happen.
12:29 FROGGS I just wonder why/how hitting a write barrier makes my playing cards building collapse
12:30 masak that is a really good question.
12:30 FROGGS and I dont understand enough about that topic
12:32 FROGGS I mean, I dont understand how hitting a WB has an influence of (dis)owning objects on an SC
12:53 Ven_ joined #moarvm
13:05 brrt FROGGS, silly question, does it still collapse on MVM_JIT_DISABLE=1
13:06 brrt :-)
13:06 brrt because the JIT also does direct sc access
13:06 FROGGS I disabled spesh yesterday and that did not change anything
13:07 brrt ah well
13:07 brrt shame
13:08 FROGGS and it is nice that it is not a spesh or jit(ter)bug
13:09 brrt well, yes :-)
13:09 nwc10 FROGGS: is the testcase more than a branch in the 3 repositories?
13:11 FROGGS nwc10: no, it is exactly that
13:11 FROGGS nwc10: jsoff in all three, then running: perl6 ser.pl thrice
13:11 FROGGS "thrice"
13:15 FROGGS hmmmm, does that mean that I do not clear the SC ownership correctly?
13:15 FROGGS so that MVM_get_idx_of_sc still reports something > 0 for my (meant to be) disowned objects
13:15 FROGGS okay, I've got something to look at
13:23 FROGGS hmmm no, I'm doing that right
13:24 FROGGS so if the thing I am pushing to was one of the objects of my SC, the WB code would be (correctly) a noop
13:33 FROGGS joined #moarvm
13:41 FROGGS hmmm, how does one translate fremdschämen...
13:42 nebuchadnezzar FROGGS: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/fremdsch%C3%A4men
13:42 nebuchadnezzar ?
13:42 FROGGS ohh, it actually is a word...
13:43 FROGGS nebuchadnezzar: that expresses my feelings at the workshop right now
13:44 nebuchadnezzar erf, so you are embarrassed because someone else embarrassed himself witout noticing it
13:45 nebuchadnezzar I may you that work for our french deputies, but I'm more ashamed by the whole country :-/
13:49 FROGGS nebuchadnezzar: the current speaker seems to be on another level than the audience it seems
13:49 FROGGS it is hard to put in words
13:50 nebuchadnezzar I think I see, he does not notice that nobody follows his explanation because it's too high level, or something like that
13:54 FROGGS nebuchadnezzar: sort of, the audience now asks: why are you doing that? what is its goal? what problems do you want to solve?
13:54 FROGGS and it is getting more strange every minute it goes
14:22 nwc10 FROGGS: ser.pl under valgrind produces no errors
14:22 timotimo right; that's not the failure mode, though :(
14:22 nwc10 (run 3 times, "version skew" error on third run
14:22 nwc10 also, FROGGS++ is up on stage currently
14:22 nwc10 so might be a bit slow in replying :-)
14:23 timotimo FROGGS: there ought to be an SC WB in all "put something into a list" instructions
14:23 timotimo the SC WB triggers reposession, AFAIK
14:43 vendethiel joined #moarvm
14:48 jnthn FROGGS: See src/6model/6model.h:157; clearing the SC is a bit more involved than just setting sc_idx to 0, also idx needs to be, and see the bit in the #ifdef two which may give somehting to NULL, barrier, and free
14:48 jnthn Uh, darn, that'll still be a data race
15:12 FROGGS ohh, MVM_USE_OVERFLOW_SERIALIZATION_INDEX is actually defined
15:13 jnthn :)
15:13 FROGGS I totally missed that
15:14 FROGGS ohh no, it isnt
15:30 vendethiel joined #moarvm
15:59 FROGGS okay, setting sc_idx *and* idx to zero does not improve it much :o(
16:02 japhb FROGGS: What did you give a talk on?  (nwc10 mentioned you were on stage earlier)
16:03 FROGGS japhb: Perl5 XS, XSpp, SWIG and NativeCall
16:04 japhb FROGGS: Ooh, nice.  Slides?
16:05 timotimo i surely hope NativeCall made a good impression
16:05 timotimo even though we still don't have arrays inside chars ;(
16:05 timotimo structs*
16:06 japhb We have AoS but not SoA?
16:07 timotimo %)
16:22 tadzik joined #moarvm
16:38 vendethiel joined #moarvm
17:24 FROGGS joined #moarvm
18:08 timotimo oh, wait, that was serious and you meant "Array of Struct" and "Struct of Arrays" rather than "Array of String" and "String of Array"
18:09 timotimo the problem is that we don't have a way to say "this in-line array has a size of $n" yet
18:09 FROGGS right, that's blocking it
18:20 timotimo i'm close to just saying "fuck it" and implement *something* that brings us closer
18:20 FROGGS :o)
18:20 timotimo "well, you have to be root and load this textfile into /dev/mem and then use the sha256sum of your kenrel config as the name of the class, but then it works!"
18:21 timotimo "also, it only works if the in-line array has a prime number of elements in it"
18:21 timotimo "on a friday"
18:23 FROGGS "but not this friday"
18:25 timotimo so basically, if i put a trait "is inline-array-size['@!foobar', 10]" on the class, that'd be a workable first step so that we can at least experiment with the rest?
18:47 Peter_R joined #moarvm
18:49 danaj joined #moarvm
18:49 colomon joined #moarvm
18:50 harrow joined #moarvm
19:19 danaj joined #moarvm
19:22 lizmat joined #moarvm
19:30 Peter_R joined #moarvm
19:48 Peter_R joined #moarvm
19:53 lizmat_ joined #moarvm
19:54 Peter_R joined #moarvm
20:01 lizmat_ joined #moarvm
20:05 rurban joined #moarvm
20:33 colomon joined #moarvm
20:50 brrt joined #moarvm
20:56 Peter_R joined #moarvm
21:05 lizmat_ joined #moarvm
21:09 lizmat__ joined #moarvm
21:39 colomon joined #moarvm
21:49 Peter_R joined #moarvm
23:11 vendethiel joined #moarvm

| Channels | #moarvm index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary