Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2015-12-28

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02:48 Topic for #moarvm is now https://github.com/moarvm/moarvm | IRC logs at  http://irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/today
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12:48 mojca I would like to package MoarVM (and Perl6) in MacPorts and I'm having some issues with it, mainly connected with the use of internal vs. external libraries like libuv, libtommath etc.
12:50 mojca In the perl6 channel people told me that I should really try to use the internal libraries (shipped with the tarball)
12:50 mojca but then I have this problem: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/issues/321
12:50 timotimo wait wait, don't we have macports already?
12:51 timotimo cf. https://trac.macports.org/ticket/47803
12:51 mojca whoooops
12:51 timotimo https://trac.macports.org/ticket/48904 - a bit less out of date
12:51 mojca I didn't see it
12:51 timotimo [coke] is your contact for this :)
12:52 mojca I'm sorry, my bad
12:52 timotimo don't worry about it! :)
12:52 mojca Just to make sure: did anyone already package Perl6 then :)
12:52 timotimo i honestly have no clue about macports
12:54 mojca OK, in any case we desperately need to update the port in order to make it compatible with the latest release (and also fix it in various ways then)
12:56 timotimo OK
12:57 timotimo in that case your help would probably be nice to have!
13:00 mojca does [coke] refer to the irc user (including the brackets)?
13:01 lizmat mojca: yes
13:01 lizmat well, [Coke] technically
13:23 mojca In case he's not listening at the moment, does anyone else know what "may need ExtUtil::Command if by chance our default perl5 binary does not match what Apple ships." could mean?
14:25 mojca I opened https://trac.macports.org/ticket/50153 for MacPorts
14:26 mojca I'm looking forward to see [Coke]'s feedback, so that we could eventually add perl6 to MacPorts
14:27 mojca and I need some of your general help to fix this issue with conflicting locations of files of 3rd party libraries
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14:42 _wiz_ hi.
14:43 _wiz_ I want to build MoarVM using the installed libffi, but
14:43 _wiz_ probing whether your compiler thinks that it is gcc  Shared object "libffi.so.6" not found
14:43 _wiz_ and that part of the configure script doesn't seem to honor ENV{LDFLAGS}
14:47 timotimo did you try --with-libffi for this?
14:47 timotimo unfortunately i didn't do anything much with the build system yet
14:48 _wiz_ yes, i'm using that flag
14:50 _wiz_ that does unshift @{$config{usrlibs}}, 'ffi';
14:50 _wiz_ and that probably adds -lffi
14:51 _wiz_ but not the necessary -L / -Wl,-R
15:37 [Coke] ok, opening a macport ticket with 30 issues on it is going to be hard to clear. :|
15:40 [Coke] we specifically did not add universal variant because, IIRC, it failed testing.
15:44 [Coke] the perl comment was added, I believe, by the macport committer who helped me get the port in; his concern was that we might end up with a version of perl that didn't have ExtUtil::Command available. (but ISTR that the version we depended on in ports would always have it)
15:47 [Coke] what is "openmaintainer" ?
15:47 [Coke] mojca: there are no tests. what would we run?
15:47 mojca I'm sorry, I noticed that about tests later
15:48 mojca But tests can be run in nqp
15:48 [Coke] that's for the nqp port. right.
15:48 mojca openmaintainer means that other maintainers have the freedom to do trivial updates and changes
15:49 mojca sometimes ports are maintained by people that are hardly active and it might take a long time to get approval to update the port
15:49 [Coke] is a maintainer a specific person or just anyone who submits a patch?
15:49 mojca openmaintainer means that anyone can, say, upgrade to a later version
15:50 mojca developers are not supposed to change port unless maintainer approves the change (or doesn't respond for at leat 72 hours)
15:50 mojca maintainers are assigned tickets
15:50 mojca with problems etc.
15:50 [Coke] I'm happy to have have multiple specific maintainers. we also have https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/tree/master/ports/macports which I don't think you found yet.
15:50 mojca no, I didn't
15:50 mojca thank you
15:51 mojca see what Ionic just wrote on #macports (http://echelog.com/logs/browse/macports/1451257200)
15:54 [Coke] I'm sure we don't want to create a macport bundle for each 3rd party library with mods we use.
15:54 [Coke] (because it's a lot of work. It's probably the right thing to do, but we're not designed for that.)
15:56 hoelzro o/ #moarvm
15:56 mst that doesn't mean we wouldn't be rather happy if somebody else created those ports though, right?
16:06 dalek MoarVM: 64b13bc | coke++ | ports/macports/Portfile:
16:06 dalek MoarVM: Warning no longer needed:
16:06 dalek MoarVM:
16:06 dalek MoarVM: See: http://echelog.com/logs/browse/macports/1451257200
16:06 dalek MoarVM:
16:06 dalek MoarVM: search for "Ionic: can you please explain me your comment about Perl in MoarVM?"
16:06 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/64b13bc6b0
16:08 hoelzro I know that I asked last week about GC order in MoarVM, but I was wondering if there's an ordering if, for example, A is reachable from B but neither is reachable from the root set.  Obviously that gets complicated when there are circular references
16:09 diakopter no, still not predictable
16:10 dalek MoarVM: dc0db11 | coke++ | ports/macports/Portfile:
16:10 dalek MoarVM: Issue #321 - document conflict with std versions
16:10 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/dc0db11929
16:10 diakopter why would it help if it was predictable?
16:11 [Coke] mojca: there's 2 things added to our copy of the portfile.
16:11 hoelzro ok, that's what I thought
16:12 hoelzro it would help because if A has a reference to B, it might need to do something with B in its own cleanup
16:12 hoelzro but now that I type it, that seems like a contrived example, because any clean up B needs should be in B's gc_free
16:16 dalek MoarVM: db4e43d | coke++ | ports/macports/README:
16:16 dalek MoarVM: Easier way to get checksums.
16:16 dalek MoarVM:
16:16 dalek MoarVM: mojca++
16:16 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/db4e43d7c8
16:16 dalek MoarVM: 8d74b9d | coke++ | ports/macports/Portfile:
16:16 dalek MoarVM: Update port to 2015.12
16:16 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/8d74b9dbc2
16:17 dalek MoarVM: 851bdf0 | coke++ | ports/macports/README:
16:17 dalek MoarVM: Even easier instructions
16:17 dalek MoarVM:
16:17 dalek MoarVM: mojca++
16:17 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/851bdf0017
16:26 [Coke] mojca: if you have updates for the README in our portfile directory, please submit a PR. Or gist an updated copy.
16:27 mojca ok, will do
16:27 mojca I'll just commit the change if that's ok and then we can proceed to nqp?
16:27 [Coke] you have commit bits to moarvm? sure.
16:28 [Coke] also, what's your comaint line look like?
16:29 [Coke] happy to share. I was planning on doing this stuff this week since I was tied up with other perl6 things earlier, glad to have someone else show up with it mostly done. :)
16:30 [Coke] oh, you meant in macports. also fine.
16:32 mojca yes, in MacPorts
16:32 mojca I'll try to get the other changes to you afterwards
16:34 [Coke] So the plan for nqp and rakudo was to get them working with both moarvm & jvm backend variants, which is why I didn't just do them.
16:35 [Coke] the plan for this week was going to be: hell with JVM for now, get nqp & rakudo ports that are moarvm only out there.
16:35 mojca nqp: should there be a single package supporting both?
16:35 [Coke] I was going to do the same thing of keeping a snapshot in the existing repos of the portfile to make it easier for a project dev (rather than a macport dev) get them committed on future releases.
16:35 mojca but if you don't care about jvm for now, we could start with moarvm only for now
16:36 [Coke] mojca: was going to use variants so you could use nqp-moar or nqp-jvm (or, I suppose, both)
16:36 [Coke] Yes. don't care about jvm for now; it's not part of christamas.
16:36 [Coke] *christmas
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16:36 mojca ok
16:36 [Coke] So glad you showed up! I now get a day back on my holiday. :)
16:37 mojca a day back?
16:37 [Coke] I am happy to take comaint on the nqp/rakudo ones; but also fine with you being sole maint. Thanks for your help on the moarvm one, too!
16:37 camelia nqp-moarvm: OUTPUT«Confused at line 2, near "should the"␤   at gen/moar/stage2/NQPHLL.nqp:521  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/NQPHLL.moarvm:panic:105)␤ from gen/moar/stage2/NQP.nqp:921  (/home/camelia/rakudo-m-inst-2/share/nqp/lib/nqp.moarvm:comp_unit:872)␤ from …»
16:37 [Coke] it was going to take me a day to get all that sorted, I imagine.
16:37 camelia ..nqp-parrot: OUTPUT«Can't exec "./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p": No such file or directory at lib/EvalbotExecuter.pm line 206.␤exec (./rakudo-inst/bin/nqp-p /tmp/tmpfile) failed: No such file or directory␤Server error occurred! Closing Link: ns1.niner.name (Quit: camelia)␤Lost connect…»
16:37 camelia ..nqp-jvm: OUTPUT«(signal ABRT)»
16:38 [Coke] mojca: nqp::say(3) ; # huh?
16:38 [Coke] oh, no it was you saying "nqp: ". :)
16:38 [Coke] you triggered the eval bot. :)
16:39 mojca ooooops
16:41 mojca I initially copy-pasted the description for nqp from the README
16:41 mojca "Not Quite Perl" (NQP) is a subset of Perl 6 clearly not intended as a Perl 6 implementation for end user. ...
16:41 mojca I would like the description to mention "Not Quite Perl" somewhere. Otherwise it becomes impossible to remember the name
16:53 mojca http://trac.macports.org/ticket/50154
17:12 [Coke] I would remove everything after "for end user" in the description.
17:12 [Coke] that all refers to parrot, which we really don't support at this point. (would be fine in a list of all backends, but lets just leave it out)
17:12 [Coke] (for nqp)
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20:00 _wiz_ any suggestions how to get LDFLAGS into the Configure.pl compiler checks?
20:04 hoelzro _wiz_: which flags in particular?
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20:06 _wiz_ I'd like to pass in -L/usr/pkg/lib -Wl,-R/usr/pkg/lib so that libffi is found correctly
20:09 hoelzro hmm, that I'm not sure how to do
20:12 _wiz_ I need this because I want to use the installed libffi.
20:14 hoelzro apparently Configure.pl will read from LDFLAGS and add them to the Makefile
20:14 hoelzro _wiz_: ↑
20:18 _wiz_ it looks that way, but if it does, it does it too late.
20:18 hoelzro hmm
20:19 hoelzro ah, I see
20:19 hoelzro or maybe not...
20:19 hoelzro I see it in the "link" part of Configure's report
20:19 hoelzro but not libs
20:26 hoelzro _wiz_: I got it working on my box
20:26 hoelzro CFLAGS=-I/tmp/ffi-install/lib/libffi-3.2.1/include LDFLAGS=-L/tmp/ffi-install/lib perl Configure.pl --has-libffi
20:33 _wiz_ no, no luck here.
20:33 _wiz_ https://paste.debian.net/356775/
20:38 hoelzro _wiz_: which OS are you on?
20:40 _wiz_ NetBSD, why?
20:40 _wiz_ have you tried with LDFLAGS with a space inside?
20:40 hoelzro I haven't
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20:41 hoelzro ok, just did
20:41 hoelzro that worked =/
20:41 brrt ohhai
20:41 hoelzro o/ brrt
20:42 brrt hi hoelzro
20:46 _wiz_ hm, weird.a
20:49 hoelzro _wiz_: I think I understand now
20:50 hoelzro I don't think the probing stuff respects LDFLAGS or CFLAGS
20:51 brrt no, it doesn't
20:51 brrt can be made too
20:51 brrt but doesn't do it now
20:51 hoelzro ah, well that explains it
20:52 brrt you'll want something like $config{ldflags} .= $ENV{LDFLAGS} // ''
20:52 brrt somewhere
20:52 brrt for what it's worth, /me can't figure out why libuv can build without cfmakeraw on solaris, but it's probably a mad flags issue
20:54 _wiz_ I just added printf debugging and here's the command line (even with LDFLAGS in the env):
20:54 _wiz_ gcc -o try try.o -lffi -ltommath -latomic_ops -luv -lm -lpthread -lkvm >/dev/null 2>&1
20:56 hoelzro that looks consistent with what I saw
20:56 hoelzro so now making a change similar to brrt's suggestion would probably fix things
20:56 _wiz_ this seems to work: https://paste.debian.net/356781/
20:57 brrt actually, in keeping with nwc10++'s suggestion, the whole darn thing will want rewriting
20:57 brrt as far as i'm concerned
20:57 brrt and... i wonder
20:57 hoelzro that makes sense to me
20:57 hoelzro you'll probably want a parallel CFLAGS change further up
20:58 brrt why have all this probing logic, when we can just compile a file using the standard compiler, and figure out all bits of our architecture
20:59 brrt there are all sorts of compiler standard definitions that can be used to figure out our toolchain and platform
20:59 hoelzro mhmm
20:59 brrt and if you just evaluate the equivalent of 'cc', well, it will figure out all bits by itself
20:59 hoelzro http://sourceforge.net/p/predef/wiki/Home/
20:59 hoelzro ↑ comes in handy
21:00 brrt that's pretty much what i mean, yes
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