Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2016-04-18

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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06:13 nwc10 smmn jnthn
06:26 nine_ nwc10 is taking the "no vovel rule" wrt jnthn quite seriously
06:28 moritz did you mean "nwc10 s tkng th "n vwl rl" wrt jnthn qt srsly"? :-)
06:29 nine_ f crs
06:30 nwc10 (gd mrng #mrvm)
06:30 nwc10 hsnt wrkd - stll n jnthn :-(
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06:59 * masak .oO( gd mrng vtnm )
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07:24 moritz gd mrning msk
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08:08 * jnthn ywwwns
08:08 * brrt waves
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10:10 masak jnthn: did you know that in Swedish, "y" is a vowel?
10:10 masak not half a one like in English
10:11 jnthn masak: Ystad!
10:11 jnthn I think I did know that :)
10:12 masak ...and if you mispronounce "Ystad" with a short "y" sound, it means "curdled" (as in cheese) instead of the name of a city :P
10:12 jnthn fwiw, the MoarVM release process is 1) easy, and 2) documented in docs/relesae_guide
10:13 jnthn The only step only I can do at present is actually upload the release
10:13 masak jnthn: how many distinct people have cut a MoarVM release?
10:13 jnthn But everything else is do-able but people with a commit bit
10:13 jnthn masak: Not enough! :P
10:13 jnthn I'm pretty sure some folks have done the bulk of the work and I just uploaded the result, though.
10:33 nwc10 cym
10:33 nwc10 arse
10:33 nwc10 cwm
10:34 nwc10 w is a vowel in Welsh, and Welsh loanwords
10:34 jnthn What is the world cwming to...
10:35 nwc10 oh, apparently Welsh doesn't just need ŵ
10:36 nwc10 but also ẃ ẅ and ẁ
10:36 nwc10 (says one page, but not another)
10:38 jnthn The only Welsh word I know is cwrw :P
10:38 nwc10 I didn't know *that* one, but I guessed
10:42 jnthn http://blogs.perl.org/users/yuki_kimoto/2016/04/i-think-sub-signatures-dont-need-arguments-count-checking.html is entertaining in so far as MoarVM has for probably close to 2 years been able to completely optimize away arity checks on most hot-paths...
10:43 jnthn ...so dynamic languages aren't doomed to have to do that as a runtime check.
10:43 jnthn At least, not post-optimization
10:43 nine_ Also giving Javascript and PHP as examples for "good" "natural" behavior is...intriguing
10:43 moritz also, the arguments in there are pretty weak
10:45 moritz I think most users of programming languages that got this one right would agree that argument checking is just essential to getting good feedback from the compiler
10:45 moritz or the runtime, whatever
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11:04 jnthn Sure, the lang design side of the argument also strikes me as weak, but lang design is always something folks can debate. The perf bit is a decades-out-of-date view though. :)
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11:37 psch maybe i'm just getting hung up on bad english, but it seems to me that the blog author doesn't really have any argument except "it should be slower but i don't want to measure"..?
11:38 psch ah, no, there's "other dynamic language do it too" as well
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14:02 [Coke] I could have done the moarvm release, btw, but I have no idea if what's on master was good to release. the actual bits of commiting and pressing buttons, sure, that part's easy.
14:02 [Coke] Maybe we can plan for someone aside from jnthn to do May's release of Moar, JIC.
14:06 colomon joined #moarvm
14:08 jnthn Aye. I can cut a Moar release this evening.
14:11 [Coke] that'd be great. I'll do the nqp/rakudo by wednesday at the latest.
14:18 colomon joined #moarvm
14:19 brrt i'm wondering how a linear scan register allocation algorithm can deal with pre-coloring
14:20 brrt and with 'dead ranges', i.e. a range were everything must be spilled...
14:23 domidumont joined #moarvm
14:24 brrt hmmmm
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14:31 timotimo when you have a range where everything must be spilled, just break up the whole algorithm into two pieces of data?
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14:48 timotimo jnthn: how do we feel about reverting the "set up VMNulls everywhere" code until we find something that's more efficient?
14:49 jnthn Well, it fixes quite a few SEGVs?
14:49 jnthn And we're talking "several percent"?
14:56 timotimo you said it was costly; i didn't do a precise measurement yet, but perf showed those instructions were hot in that function
14:56 timotimo i'm not yet very good at reading perf, though
14:57 timotimo and it only fixes segvs if you run moar on fuzzed bytecodes
14:57 jnthn m: my $x := $x; say $x
14:57 camelia rakudo-moar 1aabef: OUTPUT«===SORRY!=== Error while compiling /tmp/KOuXFsHcVu␤Cannot use variable $x in declaration to initialize itself␤at /tmp/KOuXFsHcVu:1␤------> my $x := $⏏x; say $x␤    expecting any of:␤        term␤»
14:57 timotimo afl-fuzz is very good at finding instructions, rewiring one of the object operands to point at an object register that hasn't been written to yet, and saying "ha, i crashed it!"
14:57 jnthn Hm, there was some case a bit like that in RT that SEGV'd that I figured it'd also fix
14:58 jnthn But we have had crashes in the past resulting from such things, anyway
14:58 jnthn I'd rather keep it and work out how to fix things efficiently later.
14:58 timotimo if you say it ain't that bad, we'll leave it in for this month's release
14:58 timotimo it's likely that people would notice a performance impact, but unlikely they'd stumble upon the segfaults; at least i thought so until you said we actually had this kind of segfault happen in the wild already
14:59 jnthn Well, I didn't notice any notable increase in the Tux Test::CSV numbers
14:59 jnthn Which is a good canary for real world code
14:59 jnthn I'd be much more worried if I saw a big jump there
14:59 jnthn We might check the daily benchmark runs also
15:00 timotimo ah, of course! you have those! why did i already forget about them?
15:01 nine_ timotimo: This may come as a shock to you, but there is a possibility, that you are actually human ;)
15:01 timotimo darn, all the effort i put into making sure i'm not human gone to waste :(
15:02 jnthn .oO( botornot )
15:04 timotimo did someone inject some botox into me while i was sleeping?
15:14 moritz if you have to ask.. probabl yes :-)
15:19 timotimo that'd explain why i'm not a bot, then
15:19 timotimo because clearly that's what botox does
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16:38 jnthn Ugh, tired
16:38 jnthn Will rest a little then cut the release
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17:09 dalek MoarVM: 46feef2 | jnthn++ | docs/ChangeLog:
17:09 dalek MoarVM: ChangeLog for 2016.04.
17:09 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/46feef2f18
17:10 dalek MoarVM: 0d03bb6 | jnthn++ | VERSION:
17:10 dalek MoarVM: Bump VERSION.
17:10 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/0d03bb60e4
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17:15 japhb_ That was a quick rest!
17:16 timotimo powernap, perhaps
17:16 japhb pernaps
17:17 japhb On my desktop, that's only different by a couple *pixels*
17:18 jnthn http://www.moarvm.org/releases/MoarVM-2016.04.tar.gz
17:18 jnthn [Coke]: ^^ :)
17:18 jnthn Website can wait until after more rest :)
17:35 * leont is still observing weird Proc::Async related ordering issues in TAP::Harness occasionally. Figuring out if it is my code, rakudo or moar that's causing it it tricky :-/
17:35 leont Though things have gotten a lot better
17:35 timotimo yeah, i bet!
17:35 timotimo that's good to hear
18:15 hoelzro leont: ordering issue?
18:15 hoelzro I encountered something like that some time ago
18:16 leont It seems I'm getting my result in the wrong order, but I don't know why. I just know I sometimes get errors suggesting my output was misordered, or even weirder errors
18:16 hoelzro lemme see if I can dig up that RT I filed
18:17 hoelzro ah, here it is: https://rt.perl.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=126425
18:21 leont No, my issue is dealing with output from stdout
18:22 [Coke] jnthn: Danke.
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18:24 hoelzro ah ok
18:38 leont Also, I have no idea how «while ($!grammar.subparse($!buffer)) -> $match { $!buffer.=substr($match.to);» could give me «Start argument to substr out of range. Is: 6, should be in 0..5» errors :-/
18:39 leont I'd almost suspect the .act it's in isn't serialized properly, but that doesn't sound likely does it
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19:27 dalek moarvm.org: b6f6332 | jnthn++ | / (4 files):
19:27 dalek moarvm.org: Update for 2016.04 release.
19:27 dalek moarvm.org: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/moarvm.org/commit/b6f6332bd1
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