Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2016-08-10

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Time Nick Message
01:47 ilbot3 joined #moarvm
01:47 Topic for #moarvm is now https://github.com/moarvm/moarvm | IRC logs at  http://irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/today
06:12 brrt joined #moarvm
06:20 nwc10 good *
06:21 nwc10 "brrt, tell brrt about ..."
06:21 brrt good * nwc10
06:21 nwc10 https://morepypy.blogspot.co.at/2016/08/pypy-gets-funding-from-mozilla-for.html -- ... for Python 3.5 support
06:21 brrt seen it yes
06:21 nwc10 oh yes, back thtere
06:21 brrt i wonder how we're going to apply for a thing like that
06:22 nwc10 it's even on this screen :-)
06:22 brrt okay, interesting little bit
06:22 brrt how come infrastructure code basically has to sponsored out of charity throughout our industry
06:23 brrt i mean, the number of people who'd benefit from an up-to-date pypy3 is rather large
06:23 nwc10 I don't have an answer to that, but a big messy example that confirms that it is a problem is OpenSSL
06:23 brrt only mozilla takes up the bill
06:24 brrt yes, openssl is an excellent example
06:24 brrt large bigco's tend to start their own in-house variants and open-source that
06:29 brrt e.g. unladen swallow, and the other python jit guys
06:29 brrt whatweretheycalled
06:30 brrt from dropbox
06:30 nwc10 pyston
06:30 nwc10 and Facebook with HipHop and now HHVM
06:30 nwc10 which has stopped blogging - http://hhvm.com/blog/
06:31 brrt hmmm
06:31 brrt does that mean they stopped doing things altogether?
06:31 brrt maybe they're working on php7
06:31 brrt support
06:32 nwc10 https://github.com/facebook/hhvm/commit/849695b499491b6cb7cc7654c9413ad9174f643e --  Aug 9, 2016
06:32 nwc10 it's dead. they stoppped working at least 12 hours ago!
06:32 nwc10 IIRC when they *were* still blogging they said that they would incorporate the bits of PHP 7 that didn't (er, I forget exactly) conflict with PHP 5
06:32 nwc10 or, I think, make some stuff switchable
06:33 brrt hmm
06:33 nwc10 but the impression I get is that their future is with Hack
06:33 brrt switches sound saner than mix-and-match
06:34 nwc10 I think that the answer about "everything is charity" is that most firms find it very hard to make an internal business case to pay for (more work) on something that is available to them for free (er, at no cost) and basically works well enough already
06:34 brrt hmmm
06:34 nwc10 and it's very hard to create your own consultancy to offer such services to regular firms, and actually have a sales pitch
06:34 brrt so open source is bound to remain in some low-energy state
06:34 nwc10 yes. ish.
06:35 nwc10 although it's interesting that the US Federal Government seems to be waking up to it
06:35 brrt hmmm
06:35 brrt interesting
06:35 nwc10 although you can fork gov.uk on github: https://github.com/alphagov
06:35 nwc10 and I think I was told that New Zealand did fork some
06:49 * brrt hopes that won't be abused someday
07:37 zakharyas joined #moarvm
08:00 brrt joined #moarvm
09:20 jnthn morning, #moarvm :)
10:16 jnthn Yay, with local fixes I just had the IO::Socket::Async tests run 100 times in a row without any failure
10:24 nwc10 jnthn: I can run t/spec/integration/advent2013-day14.t in a loop "forever" without failing
10:25 nwc10 (it stops when I rebuilt rakudo in the same dir from a different window)
10:29 jnthn :)
10:30 jnthn What flappers/failers do you still have?
10:31 jnthn The ASAN explosion in S17-lowlevel/lock.t is the only still on my "tests I know I need to look at" list
10:31 jnthn *the only one
10:35 nwc10 of async stuff, just that
10:35 nwc10 t/spec/S32-str/encode.rakudo.moar is also ASAN barfage
10:36 nwc10 and t/spec/S16-io/eof.t makes bad assumptions about what is in /proc (on Linux)
10:36 nwc10 but my suggested fix in the RT ticket I opened is also daft :-)
10:36 jnthn Yeah, I'm just interested in concurrency things at the moment :)
10:37 dalek MoarVM: 40948f6 | jnthn++ | / (13 files):
10:37 dalek MoarVM: Implement cancellation completion notification.
10:37 dalek MoarVM:
10:37 dalek MoarVM: So that things that want to really know when something was cancelled
10:37 dalek MoarVM: are able to find out. (In the course of doing this, I noticed that we
10:37 dalek MoarVM: seem to be missing a number of cancellation handlers, which will also
10:37 dalek MoarVM: want looking in to.)
10:37 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/40948f6920
11:05 dalek joined #moarvm
11:07 jnthn Turns out the lock.t issue, after all this time, was actually an incorrect test...
11:09 nwc10 when the race is won/lost/$whatever, what was the failure?
11:09 nwc10 ASAN seems to have turned my terminal red, but failed to print out anything
11:11 jnthn The test just failed due to wrong values in the array
11:11 nine jnthn: does that mean that all flappers are fixed now?
11:11 jnthn So far as I know.
11:11 nine Yeah! jnthn++
11:12 nine Need to start hacking on rakudo again. Should be even more fun now :)
11:12 jnthn Hangs too :)
11:13 jnthn Anothr spectest run just completed happily :)
11:13 nwc10 the test just failed with a SEGV: http://paste.scsys.co.uk/530610
11:13 nwc10 so there is something ugly in t/spec/S17-lowlevel/lock.t (as was) even if it's not testing correctly.
11:14 jnthn You pulled latest roast?
11:14 nwc10 no, this is the one from before dalek died
11:14 jnthn Ah
11:14 jnthn Yes, I know there's still something wrong at the VM level
11:14 nwc10 but I was meaning, that version can SEGV MoarVM, and it shouldn't be possible to seg..
11:14 nwc10 aha OK.
11:15 jnthn But the test wasn't trying to tickle that.
11:15 jnthn The test was trying to do things right, but was wrong.
11:15 jnthn There's already an RT to cover the underlying SEGV
11:15 nwc10 do we have a place for tests that try to ticket, er OK
11:15 jnthn Which'll get a fix and a proper test. Maybe this afternoon :)
11:15 nwc10 you keep answering my questions before I finish them
11:15 jnthn Lunch now... :) Will set off another spectest run whlie I nom :)
11:28 JimmyZ joined #moarvm
11:29 JimmyZ jnthn: re 40948f69208b1f9d460883ab0089f788423db4ba, am I missing something? I never see 'cancel_notify_queue' be read
11:35 JimmyZ does 'I noticed that we seem to be missing a number of cancellation handlers' explain it? :)
11:57 jnthn Apparently you're missing MVM_io_eventloop_send_cancellation_notification which reads it :)
11:57 jnthn Lunch spectest run also completed successfully.
11:59 nwc10 ASAN has not offered you an alternative lunch
12:02 JimmyZ haha, i just see MVM_repr_push_o(tc, notify_queue, notify_schedulee); , not seems to process  it.
12:03 JimmyZ or asynce is complicated, I can't understand it at all :(
12:04 JimmyZ but I still didn't see the code that processes cancel_notify_queue
12:04 JimmyZ or pop
12:05 JimmyZ I only  see push :)
12:05 jnthn That's 'cus Moar's job is only to push :)
12:06 jnthn It's sending an async notification to be handled back in Perl 6 land
12:06 jnthn So it ends up scheduled on the thread pool
12:09 JimmyZ sigh, I still didn't see the way that read cancel_notify_queue ....
12:10 JimmyZ even in perl 6 land
12:14 jnthn It'll just be an nqp::shift in ThreadPoolScheduler.pm, iirc
12:32 JimmyZ ah, find it , thanks
12:45 jnthn This VMArray refactor is gonna be some work... :)
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14:11 dalek MoarVM: 2f269d8 | (Jimmy Zhuo)++ | src/io/eventloop.c:
14:11 dalek MoarVM: removed unused code
14:11 dalek MoarVM: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/2f269d8a03
14:16 lizmat jnthn: seems like the last updates to Moar/NQP/Rakudo borked --profile
14:16 lizmat $ perl6 --profile -e 'my $a'
14:16 lizmat Writing profiler output to profile-1470838613.57616.html
14:16 lizmat ===SORRY!===
14:16 lizmat SC not yet resolved; lookup failed
15:47 timotimo yeah, i've already given a bad and a good commit for that problem
15:48 timotimo hm, but not in here, it seems
16:23 jnthn Time for a break, but I figure I've got the first 80% of the VMArray re-work done.
16:27 ilmari now you only have the second 80% left?
17:10 Zoffix joined #moarvm
17:20 jnthn Hopefully...don't want a third 80% :P
17:31 geekosaur thought it was 90%. but then, that'd mean 10% to reach 90% + the other 90% = 100% to go >.>
19:33 zakharyas joined #moarvm
20:03 brrt joined #moarvm
20:06 brrt good * #moarvm
20:06 timotimo heyo brrt
20:06 brrt hey timotimo
20:06 brrt how's today?
20:07 timotimo i feel kind of down today
20:08 * jnthn has a totally busted MoarVM today
20:08 brrt bust all the things \o/
20:08 timotimo well, completely re-working the storage for VMArray would kind of do that to you :)
20:08 jnthn Well, jsut VMArray :)
20:08 brrt what had to change on VMArray, fwiw
20:09 jnthn Its explosiveness if you mis-used it from multiple threads
20:09 timotimo that's ... a question?
20:09 brrt yes, a question
20:09 jnthn It's not meant to be a concurrent data structure but it shouldn't be a path to SEGV the VM :)
20:09 brrt i know knothing
20:09 timotimo "fwiw" isn't a thing i'd end a sentence in?
20:10 brrt it's not?
20:10 brrt oh well
20:10 timotimo it's not, no
20:10 timotimo data loss is still likely when you concurrently resize the array
20:10 brrt don't... do that then
20:10 jnthn Yeah
20:10 brrt doctor, it hurts if i do...
20:10 jnthn Though I realized we can actually catch some cases of that happening and complain loudly
20:10 brrt can we do that cheaply?
20:11 jnthn brrt: Yeah, the pain shouldn't incldue memory corruption and a segfault though :)
20:11 jnthn Relatively
20:11 brrt what will it cost to the nonconcurrent case?
20:11 jnthn Hard to say, but I suspect "rather little"
20:12 brrt hmmm
20:12 jnthn Plus we should be able to JIT array accesses pretty nicely after this too, it hink
20:12 brrt good :-)
20:12 jnthn *think
20:12 brrt oh, that i'm interested in
20:18 jnthn Anyways, I got to the point where I was too tired to hack more on the VMArray bits today, so will continue another time :)
20:18 brrt oh well :-)
20:22 lizmat good night, jnthn
20:35 hoelzro joined #moarvm
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