Perl 6 - the future is here, just unevenly distributed

IRC log for #moarvm, 2017-05-30

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Time Nick Message
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01:49 Topic for #moarvm is now https://github.com/moarvm/moarvm | IRC logs at  http://irclog.perlgeek.de/moarvm/today
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05:57 brrt timotimo: i'm not taking gc management into account at all at this point
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06:10 brrt okay, i'm flummoxed. i don't see it at all
06:11 nwc10 step away from the keyboard and make coffee?
06:14 brrt probably best...
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07:21 brrt wrt the poor quality of the generated code
07:22 brrt that's pretty much by design
07:22 brrt i strongly prefer easily debuggable suboptimal code over optimal code that is difficult to debug
07:22 brrt optimal code is for when correctness can be ensured
07:22 nwc10 but but but "no obvious bugs" is obviously far superior :-)
07:23 brrt well, that's the point of obviousness, isn't it
07:23 brrt actually, the whole notion of 'obvious' is kind of suspect
07:23 nwc10 and "obviously no bugs" is obviously buggy :-)
07:24 brrt did you see, perchance, the 'morning paper' about formal verification of distributed systems
07:24 nwc10 no I didn't
07:24 brrt well, the tl;dr is
07:24 brrt formal verification helps in eliminating core protocol errors
07:24 brrt but it doesn't help (as much) in eliminating 'interface' errors, i.e. in assumptions about the interaction with the world
07:24 brrt stuff like whether UDP is reliable or not
07:25 brrt i thought that was a quite interesting find, on the topic of bugs
07:27 brrt https://blog.acolyer.org/2017/05/29/an-empirical-study-on-the-correctness-of-formally-verified-distributed-systems/
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08:50 samcv o/ hello all
08:50 jnthn morning o/
08:52 samcv do we have any support for isatty
08:53 samcv so we could check if we are a tty or not for like $*OUT or $*IN or whatever
08:53 samcv like colud hide: "You may want to `zef install Readline` or `zef install Linenoise` or use rlwrap for a line editor" if you are already using rlwrap
08:53 samcv and many more fun things
08:53 samcv windows has it as _isatty
08:54 brrt i think…. we tried doing that at some point in the past, i have no idea what became of it
08:54 samcv or something. will have to double check. windows is so odd
08:54 brrt windows has _isatty, es
08:54 brrt *yes
08:54 samcv all functions need more underscores to be honest. minimum 5 for maximum
08:54 jnthn samcv: Yes, there's a method on IO::Handle for that
08:54 samcv oo
08:55 samcv native-descriptor?
08:57 jnthn .t
08:57 yoleaux Tue, 30 May 2017 08:57:16 UTC
08:57 jnthn A single char like the other test methods :)
08:58 samcv best ever :(
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08:58 samcv hmm seems it doesn't work with rlwrap
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16:23 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: de99476972 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 7 files
16:23 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: Remove char-level I/O ops.
16:23 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/de99476972
16:24 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: 698974fac5 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 2 files
16:24 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: Remove now-dead MVM_io_file_s[lurp|pew].
16:24 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/698974fac5
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16:36 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: 6121d0643b | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 2 files
16:36 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: Remove now-dead sync char input functions.
16:36 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/6121d0643b
16:36 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: 99333ed22f | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 6 files
16:36 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: Remove char-level I/O from sync read vtable.
16:36 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/99333ed22f
16:42 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: 90e80c8e02 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | src/io/dirops.c
16:42 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: Toss unused encoding option in dir handle.
16:42 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io:
16:42 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: If we do turn out to somehow need this, there'll be a better way to
16:42 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: handle it than keeping the MVMIOEncodable part of the I/O v-table
16:42 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: around just for it.
16:42 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/90e80c8e02
16:48 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: 771bb59689 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 11 files
16:48 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: Remove infrastructure to set handle encoding.
16:48 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/771bb59689
16:51 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: 63e3fd6be2 | (Jonathan Worthington)++ | 4 files
16:51 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: Remove now-unused sep spec field in sync I/O.
16:51 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io:
16:51 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: The decode stream in these will go away soon too, but this is an LHF
16:51 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: to remove right away.
16:51 Geth ¦ MoarVM/remove-sync-char-io: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/MoarVM/commit/63e3fd6be2
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19:08 cono guys, what is P6Opaque ?
19:09 Zoffix Default representation of objects
19:09 Zoffix There's an internals course that mentions them: https://github.com/edumentab/rakudo-and-nqp-internals-course
19:09 Zoffix (day 2 in particular talks about this stuff IIRC)
19:10 cono Zoffix: thanks a lot!
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21:50 Geth ¦ moarvm.org: c059f76e4f | jnthn++ | 2 files
21:50 Geth ¦ moarvm.org: Update site for 2017.05 release.
21:50 Geth ¦ moarvm.org: review: https://github.com/MoarVM/moarvm.org/commit/c059f76e4f
21:50 jnthn Better late than never... :)
21:52 Zoffix heh
21:53 timotimo i had to do a double take when i saw "deprecated ... removed"
22:00 jnthn heh
22:01 jnthn Ah well, you only have to double-take for 2 weeks until the next relesae
22:01 jnthn I suspect the next one will shake out any unknown MoarVM users given the amount it will remove...
22:03 timotimo m: say for gather { take take 2 }
22:03 camelia rakudo-moar 5e3393: OUTPUT: «===SORRY!=== Error while compiling <tmp>␤Unsupported use of bare "say"; in Perl 6 please use .say if you meant to call it as a method on $_, or use an explicit invocant or argument, or use &say to refer to the function as a noun␤at <tmp>:1␤--…»
22:03 timotimo m: .say for gather { take take 2 }
22:03 camelia rakudo-moar 5e3393: OUTPUT: «2␤2␤»

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