Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-07-13

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:03 sri oh cool, couchdb 1.0 release is soon
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01:35 xantus_ man! it's soo much easier to get at and use the data in couchdb
01:35 AdamK The easy things are easy...
01:35 AdamK What about the hard things
01:36 xantus_ we'll see
01:37 xantus_ I'm using it to store my file catalog
01:39 xantus_ its a learning experience
01:40 AdamK of course
01:42 xantus_ AdamK: are you anti couch at all?
01:42 AdamK I'm mildly anti no-sql
01:42 AdamK And also a bit anti-couch specifically
01:42 AdamK Not that I've ever tried it
01:43 AdamK Just from his stupid asshat leadership style
01:43 xantus_ from the author
01:47 sri Oo
01:47 sri AdamK: tell us more
01:48 sri so far i've not heard a single bad thing
01:48 sri and my personal experiece with couchdb has been nothing but fun
01:49 xantus_ do you know Damien
01:50 AdamK http://geekfeminism.wikia.com/wiki/CouchDB_talk
01:50 garfield [ CouchDB talk - Geek Feminism Wiki ]
01:50 AdamK Well, that wasn't Damian
01:50 AdamK But it left a stink on couch
01:51 sri was about to say that
01:51 xantus_ w t f
01:51 xantus_ ok, so it was some douch bag
01:51 sri that guy is actually from the ruby camp
01:52 sri not even a developer as far as i can see
01:54 AdamK Wait, couch IS a Ruby thing isn't it?
01:54 AdamK Or have they migrated to C?
01:54 sri erlang!
01:54 xantus_ lol, was not even ruby
01:55 xantus_ it was c and moved to erlang
01:55 sri ye
01:55 sri and it's using spidermonkey by default for the js parts
01:55 xantus_ lol, this makes me hate ruby even more
01:55 sri in external processes, very typical for erlang
01:56 xantus_ hm, looks like i need to run a fsck on this disk
01:56 sri AdamK: you should really take a look at couchdb, the whole design is a thing of beauty
01:57 sri the fact that your "queries" run in advance takes a little getting used to, but makes perfect sense in the big picture
01:57 AdamK Oh hey, it's written in erlang
01:57 AdamK My respect++
01:58 sri couchdb actually started the huge erlang trend
01:58 AdamK It's hardly huge :)
01:58 sri huge enough to be noticeable ;p
01:58 xantus_ thats what she said?
01:59 xantus_ k, I'm out
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03:48 sri new blog post http://blog.kraih.com/a-logo-for-perl
03:48 sri :)
03:49 garfield [ A logo for Perl - Sebastian Riedel about Perl and the Web ]
03:50 Alias "Amelia"
03:50 Alias Cute
03:57 Alias sri: Design is much better, but some of those examples have terrible colour
03:57 sri they are design stages
03:58 Alias Oh, they aren't alternatives?
03:58 sri nope
03:58 Alias ah, ok
03:58 sri if you look closely you can also see the butterfly shape changing
03:58 Alias It might still be worth redoing the colours
03:59 Alias Picking a colour pallete can be quite involved, and it can be pretty effective at changing the tone of something
03:59 Alias sri: I'm not a designer, but I worked for a top tier design firm for a while, and they would put a ton of time into colour pallets and fonts and crap like that
04:00 Alias It still feels two or three iterations short
04:00 Alias (Of a fully professional look)
04:00 Alias But it's WAY closer than anything else I've seen in the Perl world
04:00 Alias So massive kudos
04:00 Alias Padre made a good start with the logo, but ruined it with horrible page design :)
04:01 Alias (And I gotta say I do like the Butterfly theme in general for Perl)
04:01 Alias (Since it's a language that's about freedom)
04:02 sri ok, cleared it up a bit
04:02 sri calling them "worse iterations"
04:03 Alias Main reason I thought they were a family was the different works
04:03 Alias Rakudo + Perl 6 + Perl 5 + Perl Foundation'
04:03 Alias works -> words
04:03 sri i actually wanted to also show failed attempts
04:03 sri guess that needs to be more obvious
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04:27 Alias :)
04:27 Alias sri: Also, how does it iconise?
04:27 Alias Strawberry does it pretty well, but for Padre we actually used an entirely different (uglier) photo specifically because it iconised better
04:28 sri scales down perfectly
04:28 sri at the smallest icon sizes i just remove the smallest dots on the wings
04:28 Alias really? Looks like it might get a little skinny
04:29 Alias TPF won't let you reuse the Onion?
04:30 sri they said no to perl-community.de
04:30 sri tinita wanted to use the onion as default avatar
04:31 sri actually i'm suprised they answered at all
04:31 sri i contacted the pr address about the butterfly like 3 weeks ago
04:31 sri no reply
04:32 sri TPF is just not that kind of foundation we would like it to be
04:32 Alias Indeed
04:33 Alias I've been pondering if I should try to get myself onto it to change it
04:34 sri that would be the first time i actually recognize a name :D
04:35 Alias The lack of ambition on the TPF annoys me
04:36 sri then again, which language has a better organization behind it?
04:36 Alias Apache
04:36 Alias Debian
04:36 sri ok, apache is awesome
04:37 Alias And both of those aren't tacitly controlled by a company
04:37 Alias I could add more if spinoffs were allowed
04:37 Alias Java, that Java editor
04:38 Alias Python
04:38 Alias http://www.python.org/psf/members/
04:38 garfield [ PSF Membership Roster ]
04:38 sri i've not seen the python foundation doing much
04:39 Alias http://www.python.org/psf/sponsorship/
04:39 garfield [ Sponsorship ]
04:39 sri they look more active though
04:39 Alias Main point is, they know how to actually find raise
04:39 Alias And give voice to interested parties
04:39 Alias And run a website
04:39 Alias http://www.python.org/psf/committees/
04:39 garfield [ Committees of the Python Software Foundation ]
04:39 sri actually a very interesting topic, "what if the perl foundation was like the apache foundation?"
04:40 Alias And build a management structure
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04:40 Alias "The PSF is funded from a variety of sources. For example, in 2006 a total of $168K in revenues came from: Individual donors (13%), PSF sponsor fees (17%), PyCon registration and PyCon sponsor fees (51%), participation in the Google Summer of Code program (14%), and interest on investments and other minor sources (5%)."
04:41 sri oh, is mozilla a company or still a foundation?
04:41 Alias Both
04:42 Alias There's the Mozilla Foundation + Mozilla Company
04:42 sri http://www.mozilla.org/about/organizations.html # right
04:42 Alias Not sure who gets the revenue though
04:42 garfield [ Mozilla Organizations ]
04:43 sri i think thats the optimum
04:43 Alias They have the revenue to support it though
04:43 Alias In the end it's mostly about money
04:43 sri thanks to google
04:43 Alias Right
04:43 Alias But really not
04:44 Alias Mozilla owns the eyeballs
04:44 Alias They sell those eyeballs
04:44 Alias Google just happens to have been the winner of that tender since year zip
04:44 sri true
04:45 Alias TPF mostly annoys me because it's not a particularly robust economic entity
04:46 Alias All legal entities are economic creatures
04:46 Alias If they are going to stay healthy, they need to grow or at least maintain that
04:46 Alias Both in volunteer hours and direct dollars
04:47 sri completely agreed
04:47 Alias While they see themselves as being the steward of cash, I never seem to see any evidence they feel they should increase it
04:47 Alias Why can't we move to elections and membership
04:48 sri weren't they actually afraid of more cash?
04:48 Alias I think a few individuals have said so
04:48 Alias If a university science fiction club, or a 5th division country football team can require $50 a year in membership, and for that you get to vote for the president, I struggle to see why we can't do something the same
04:49 sri but that would make sense
04:49 Alias I do think there are some concerns about elections
04:49 Alias That it might result in the foundation going in strange directions
04:50 sri they might actually end up promoting perl...
04:51 Alias Well, they have a PR group
04:51 sri i only believe in things i can see
04:52 Alias Anyways
04:52 Alias I know we've been pondering ways to raise revenue for Padre
04:53 Alias There's some ideas that might work once we start adding Config Sync and Collaborative Editing support
04:54 sri i'm in love with the couchdb company concept
04:54 sri http://couch.io
04:54 garfield [ Couchio — CouchDB: The NoSQL Document Database ]
04:54 sri oh, i bet you don't know about it yet :o
04:54 Alias That's the traditional model right?
04:54 sri nope
04:54 sri let me search it
04:54 Alias Make product $foo, get it hugely popular, sell training and services, and conferences and various other dribs and drabs of income
04:55 Alias (which is what I consider the traditional model)
04:56 sri Alias: http://blog.couch.io/post/382240306​/thoughts-on-an-open-source-company # thats the creator of couchdb
04:56 garfield [ Couchio - Thoughts on an Open Source Company ]
04:56 garfield http://xrl.us/bgwyxd
04:56 sri new concept
04:57 sri and they have VC millions already
04:59 Alias So it's a bit like a Law Partnership
04:59 Alias I see flaws
04:59 sri sure, but so far it works amazingly well
05:00 Alias Organisational structures shouldn't be judged by their ability to prosper, but by their ability to tolerate damage
05:01 Alias The reason that democracy sucks less than alternatives is that it can tolerate failure well over hundred year plus periods
05:01 Alias Ditto capitalism
05:01 Alias I'm not sure how well this company would survive shocks
05:02 Alias If revenue drops, everyone gets paid less, and nobody can be fired?
05:02 Alias And if you get bored and leave, do you still keep your % of the company?
05:02 Alias sri: BTW, are you selling hosting yet
05:03 sri that last one would be a huge flaw
05:03 sri i doubt they do that
05:03 Alias Seizure of property?
05:03 sri nope, i'm not sure there is much money to make in perl optimized hosting
05:03 Alias So when you get too old to be useful, but you still need the job, you just keep turning up and it's all ok
05:04 Alias sri: It wouldn't necesarily be that it's optimised, it's that you could make it rediculously easy to deploy
05:04 Alias sri: It occurs to me that since you have no dependencies, you could fairly easily create a Padre type plugin. You build the app, then you press "Release to SriHosting" and it Just Works
05:04 sri i'll go for an old school web service next
05:05 sri i know how to build Heroku for perl
05:05 Alias Heroku?
05:05 sri http://heroku.com/
05:05 garfield [ Heroku | Ruby Cloud Platform as a Service ]
05:05 sri the status quo of zero effort hosting
05:06 Alias Right
05:07 Alias A partnership with someone like Dreamhost might work quite well
05:07 sri they simply use ec2
05:07 Alias Since they are huge scale and Perl heavy
05:08 sri if i do something i want to it massively better than the rest
05:08 sri *+do
05:09 * Alias wonders what state he left Padre::Plugin::Mojolicious in
05:10 sri sure, a frontend to dreamhost would be easy, but i'm not even sure there is money to be made
05:10 Alias If nobody has done it, how do we know?
05:10 Alias If I suggested Ruby cloud hosting, would you think there would be 80,000 applications?
05:11 sri heroku is not profitable yet
05:11 Alias Strawberry Perl alone has 30,000-40,000 downloads a month
05:11 sri Oo
05:11 Alias There's definitely people out there doing Perl coding
05:11 Alias A massive dark userbase
05:11 Alias That are just getting their work done, and don't much bare for online chatter
05:12 sri there are so few numbers about the actual perl userbase
05:12 Alias I can help with that if you want
05:13 Alias I have data, just haven't done the number crunching
05:13 sri i'm sure more people would love to see those
05:13 Alias YOU could help with that :)
05:13 Alias Help us create Madre
05:13 Alias The server platform for Padre
05:13 sri haha
05:13 Alias For doing telemetry capture and crash reporting and so on
05:13 Alias And popularity contest etc
05:15 sri damn, i wouldn't have expected 40k
05:15 Alias The month Strawberry got mentioned on Slashdot, I got 100,000
05:32 Alias Interesting though, that with 80,000 applications they can't make a profit
05:32 Alias For a niche, that's rather poor
05:37 * Alias modernises the Mojo Padre plugin
05:37 Alias Which won't do much, but should make it work again'
05:42 sri \o/
05:43 sri well, heroku is just a frontend for ec2, which is insanely expensive
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05:59 sri i bet perlbuzz will not mention my blog post :)
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06:35 Su-Shee .oO(the world is against him before 8.. ;)
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06:40 * sri is hungry
06:41 Su-Shee please eat before you blog, tweet or speak in any microphone. ;)
06:41 sri anyone else want some fresh croissants?
06:41 sri *munch*
06:42 sri .oO( ...crumbs all over the channel floor... )
06:43 Su-Shee flakes in every kezboard.. ;)
06:43 sri oops
06:44 sri *munch*
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06:57 sri hmm... "lack of mojo in pants?"... just hit my inbox Oo
06:59 Su-Shee *cough* ;)
07:00 sri thats going to be the title for my next blog post :D
07:00 Alias Su-Shee: nah, sri just likes to think the world is against him
07:00 Su-Shee please don't add pics. ;)
07:01 * Su-Shee offers the latest summer fashion in tin foil hats. just in case.
07:02 memowe O HAI
07:02 sri i'll add a pic of Alias!
07:05 sri "Lack of mojo in pants?"..."Vote Alias for TPF president!"...uncle sam pose..."I want your modules!"...
07:06 Su-Shee I think, I'll change the programming language to something more .. puritan. ;)
07:06 Alias I doubt I could afford to be TPF President
07:06 Alias You need to go talk to big companies and stuff from time to time
07:06 Alias For me, that means crossing the world
07:07 sri puritan like visual basic?
07:08 vti .цшт 2
07:08 vti sorry
07:08 Su-Shee actually I find this talking to companies rather useless but luckily I'm not the president as well.
07:08 Alias SO YOU SHOULD BE
07:08 Su-Shee teh vti is back!
07:08 Alias Su-Shee: Mayhaps you're just not very good at it :)
07:09 vti back to the roots
07:10 Su-Shee Alias: no idea, I've never thought about it. when I have to do it, I do it, otherweise I avoid it. mostly for strategy reasons.
07:10 Su-Shee vti: what roots? siberian roots?
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07:14 vti Su-Shee: nah, i have only 10 years, i'll get out soon
07:14 Su-Shee vti: a little fresh air and physical labour will do you good after years in front of the computer..
07:15 vti Su-Shee: ;p
07:15 * Su-Shee is in a buddhist mood today. ;)
07:15 memowe ommmmmmmmmmmmmmm
07:16 Su-Shee hm, let's hope my new headphones come today, then I'll listen to "Hair" ;)
07:16 Alias 10 years of what?
07:17 Su-Shee Alias: work camp in siberia ;)
07:19 Alias Hrm
07:19 Alias Heroko does a few interesting things
07:20 Alias Mojo::Slug exist yet? :)
07:26 Su-Shee ooh shiny :) http://mrdoob.com/projects/c​hromeexperiments/ball_pool/
07:26 garfield [ Ball Pool ]
07:26 garfield http://xrl.us/bgyezc
07:27 sri mmmmm....mojo slugs...mmmmmmm
07:28 sri Su-Shee: ewww...i accidentally...circles....everywhere
07:29 vti sri: you don't have default chunk size value in reference
07:29 vti and there is nothing about default ssl cetificates
07:30 Su-Shee and here's a clone of the websocket canvas.. http://mrdoob.com/projects/multiuserpad/
07:31 garfield [ Multiuser Sketchpad ]
07:31 sri vti: what would you write about ssl certificates?
07:33 vti sri: that there are default ones fro testing and people don't have to waste time generating them
07:33 sri vti: but where would you mention that?
07:33 sri my first choice would be ioloop
07:34 sri but i'm not sure thats where people look
07:34 vti there is guides::cheatsheet
07:34 vti with default values for env variables for example
07:34 vti and there is MOJO_CA_FILE
07:34 DaTa sri: i've forgotten one thing to make it clean http://data.rbfh.de/extension.diff.txt :)
07:35 vti sri: and there should be default value i think
07:35 DaTa wait, it breaks the test :)
07:36 sri vti: thats not the certificate
07:36 sri it's the list of certifcate authorities
07:37 sri DaTa: i don't like that one :/
07:37 vti ah, ok
07:38 sri i'll mention it in ioloop for now
07:38 DaTa sri: better suggestions? :)
07:38 sri DaTa: dunno, something pretty ;p
07:38 DaTa :)
07:41 DaTa ah, it doesn't brake, i've moved the json file away by accident 8-)
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07:43 GitHub74 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 820b443 (2 files in 2 dirs): pod cleanup - http://bit.ly/9qN389
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07:51 GitHub26 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 6d5b463 (2 files in 2 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/btVFYH
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07:51 sri DaTa: elegant like that :)
07:52 sri now you can just overload register and set default values if you like
07:53 sri and at the same time everyone can have .conf config files
07:53 DaTa ah, and call SUPER::register, ok :)
07:53 sri ye :)
07:53 yko ha! great!
07:54 yko much better now
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07:54 GitHub173 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 23f74ec (1 files in 1 dirs): pod cleanup - http://bit.ly/aGYPou
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07:56 DaTa sri: thank you :)
07:56 sri have fun!
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08:29 sri oh, 199 followers on github :o
08:30 dotan joined #mojo
08:30 sri perl5 is catching up, need more!
08:31 Alias All the narcissism of Twitter, but with code!
08:32 sri yea, it's awesome!
08:41 Su-Shee sri: they're all out to get you. careful.
08:42 sri :o
08:42 * sri crawls under his desk
08:43 sri but they can't stop the revolution!
08:44 Su-Shee oh they can. after any revolution follows restauration and as they just suggesting you that there will be a revolte, you expose yourself and *bam* that's it.
08:45 sri :(
08:45 Alias Su-Shee: That's something of a touchy subject, best not bring it up
08:47 Su-Shee hm, noise cancelling headphones aren't what they promised.
08:47 Alias really?
08:47 * Alias has always wanted to try some
08:48 * sri has his head hung low
08:48 sri :,(
08:49 Su-Shee Alias: they make a slight woosh in the background when cancelling outside noise (which they do.)
08:50 Su-Shee Alias: you'll hear it if you turned the volume down. and if you switch nc off, the sound gets somewhat muffled.
08:51 Alias I wonder if you're heading A/D conversion errors
08:52 Su-Shee no idea, but the slight woosh is something some people critized. probably depends on your level of deafness ;)
08:52 Su-Shee and I didn't buy the best, allright.
08:52 Alias hearing
08:55 Su-Shee they sound good though.
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09:11 sharifulin sri: hi! i sent request in github.com
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09:24 GitHub97 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 9e7d9d2 (4 files in 4 dirs): fixed route with mixed format bug - http://bit.ly/a3aB6E
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09:25 sri sharifulin: thanks fixed :)
09:26 sharifulin sri: cool, i'm happy)
09:26 sri \o/
09:26 ysyrota sri: how is your tornado?
09:26 sri it hit another city
09:27 sri we don't like that one... so it's all fine
09:27 ysyrota sri: what name it had?
09:28 sri hmm...dunno...just saw it in the news yesterday :S
09:28 Su-Shee .oO(they called it sebastian... ;)
09:29 sri ;p
09:29 ysyrota sri: I'm glad it didn't touch mojo :-)
09:38 sri "touching mojo" another blog title i'll put on the list
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10:06 GitHub104 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * a432f04 (2 files in 2 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/bXjEYp
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10:08 sri one more thing we could advertise more, i18n support is damn easy in mojolicious
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10:22 GitHub58 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * f3e5204 (2 files in 2 dirs): marketing cleanup - http://bit.ly/aMNjdp
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11:01 stephan48 mh... i seem to hit a strange bug here
11:05 stephan48 http://abc123.pastebin.com/BKhCmZAJ .. packages are coming into the socket thats confirmed by tcpdump(and it also is open in listening state) but i get endless pageload times(and when i frag the server i get connection interrupted)
11:05 garfield [ stephan@stejau:~/webserver/pla - Stephan48 - BKhCmZAJ - Pastebin.com ]
11:18 sri not sure what happens when you call languages with an undef value
11:18 sri umm
11:19 sri you are not loading the plugin
11:19 sri the i18n stash value does not exist
11:22 sri the pasted file doesn't even start
11:22 sri syntax errors
11:22 sri not investigating further, that file is broken in too many ways ;p
11:32 stephan48 http://abc123.pastebin.com/ZKdPfSbZ <- mh this is the current working version and it loads :)
11:32 garfield [ #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; - Stephan48 - ZKdPfSbZ - Pastebin.com ]
11:36 stephan48 start*
11:37 stephan48 http://abc123.pastebin.com/DLSBU5L1 <- when i set a static value still same problem
11:37 garfield [ #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; - Stephan48 - DLSBU5L1 - Pastebin.com ]
12:04 sri stephan48: maybe you should add a lexicon?
12:05 sri maybe just start with the i18n test and move on from there
12:07 stephan48 sri: i have 2 in that namespace
12:08 stephan48 lib/StephanJauernick::I18N::de and one for en
12:09 sri dunno then, maketext problem i guess
12:09 stephan48 :)
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12:24 stephan48 so no real idea too? :)
12:25 sri i know the test works flawless
12:25 Su-Shee sri: want documentation suggestions?
12:25 sri Su-Shee: sure
12:26 Su-Shee sri: in the guides, add how the file/dir layout when generating app/lite_app fits into all this.
12:26 sri working on that
12:27 sri thinking is really hard with the heat though :(
12:27 * sri prays for rain
12:27 Su-Shee I would also exchange "mojolicious generate app/lite_app" to  mojolicious generate lite_app/app <nameoftheapp> inmost tutorials/docs
12:28 stephan48 sri: btw seem to be fail anyway :) http://abc123.pastebin.com/pNNWpN1H this is my minimal testcase but still it wont load the page
12:28 garfield [ #!/usr/bin/perl use strict; - Stephan48 - pNNWpN1H - Pastebin.com ]
12:28 stephan48 *sits down and start praying for rain too
12:29 sri stephan48: how do you call that script?
12:29 stephan48 ./hp.pl daemon --listen http://93.90.176.69:4414
12:29 stephan48 let me guess thats wrong?
12:29 sri stephan48: try "./hp.pl get /"
12:30 sri if that works it is your operating system
12:30 stephan48 http://abc123.pastebin.com/0vKX7AQG <- fuck thats sounds ugly fucked up
12:30 garfield [ Tue Jul 13 14:29:52 2010 info - Stephan48 - 0vKX7AQG - Pastebin.com ]
12:30 sri firewall, wrong interface settings...whatever
12:30 stephan48 mh i can access other sites on same server from this windows machine
12:31 stephan48 or you mean my servers?
12:31 sri that does seem very borked
12:31 stephan48 they are ok too i think ;)
12:31 sri smells like firewall
12:32 sri you can obviously listen but not connect
12:32 sri that server is screwed
12:32 stephan48 iptables seem to be empty :)
12:33 sri ok, try ./hp.pl http://mojolicio.us
12:33 garfield [ Mojolicious Web Framework - Join the revolution! ]
12:33 stephan48 seem to work
12:33 sri it's the server
12:33 stephan48 how you mean?
12:34 sri firewall or something
12:34 stephan48 not activated
12:34 sri ok, one last try
12:34 sri MOJO_NO_IPV6=1 ./hp.pl get /
12:35 stephan48 did i ever say ipv6 is good? NO IT SUCKS, atleast on this machine :) http://abc123.pastebin.com/m4EwJwYF
12:35 garfield [ MOJO_NO_IPV6=1 ./hp.pl get / - Stephan48 - m4EwJwYF - Pastebin.com ]
12:36 sri welcome to the club, IO::Socket::INET6 officially screwed you!
12:37 sri ok, from now on make sure to disable ipv6 ;p
12:37 sri BEGIN { $ENV{MOJO_NO_IPV6} = 1 }
12:38 sri let me guess it's debian?
12:38 stephan48 debian lenny
12:39 sri oh yea, thats common
12:39 sri they disable ipv4 if ipv6 works or so
12:40 sri IO::Socket::INET6 might be innocent this time
12:41 sri no idea why debian makes it so hard
12:43 sri guess that deserves to be in the FAQ
12:44 stephan48 ok... now i get as before a listener, but when i hit the page over tcpi get endless pageloading
12:44 sri on debian its best to just get rid of libio-socket-inet6-perl
12:44 sri ./hp.pl get /
12:44 sri ?
12:45 stephan48 works
12:45 sri another network issue ;p
12:45 stephan48 fine fine
12:45 stephan48 fuck you damn vserver
12:45 stephan48 i bet if i would try it on windows it would instantly work ;)
12:46 sri possible because you most likely couldn't install IO::Socket::INET6 xD
12:46 stephan48 jopjop
12:47 sri when it comes to linux distros so far i've only been happy with ubuntu
12:47 stephan48 ubuntu is crap :)
12:47 sri not a single problem yet
12:47 stephan48 only had problems with it
12:48 stephan48 and for servers ubuntu is a nogo for me :)
12:48 sri i've had even early versions of the mojolicious server run for months without trouble under constant load
12:49 sri but i'm thinking about switching all servers to freebsd
12:49 stephan48 why?
12:50 sri closer to os x :)
12:50 stephan48 good joke ;)
12:50 stephan48 what a wonder it works on win ;)
12:51 sri os x is actually not bad at all
12:51 sri i've had much less problems with kqueue than with epoll
12:52 sri tcp performance on linux is awful if you don't disable nagle's algorithm or use tcp_cork
12:52 stephan48 and works on another machine
12:53 stephan48 never had problems with it
12:54 sri bsd usually just works
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13:27 * sri melts
13:27 sri
13:27 sri
13:27 sri
13:33 vti sri: i have an ipad ;p
13:33 sri :o
13:33 sri i don't!
13:33 Su-Shee ok, I'm not just too stupid for catalyst, I'm also too stupid for Mojo. Next!
13:35 sri brain overheating?
13:35 vti brain?
13:36 Su-Shee no, I don't understand how the dispatcher translates routes into paths and which files get called when and how a template is loaded based on what exactly. ;)
13:36 sri read the guides? :)
13:36 sri thats exactly what the first two cover
13:36 Su-Shee already did. twice.
13:36 sri Oo
13:37 Su-Shee I don't understand the path and file layout of a base application.
13:37 sri oh
13:37 sri maybe start with lite?
13:38 sri it's one file, easy to follow the flow
13:38 sri then move on
13:38 Su-Shee already did that and the "one file" stuff is fine. now I need the "big stuff". ;)
13:38 sri thats how i'm explaining it
13:38 sri good :)
13:38 sri i'll explain how to convert a lite app into a multi file one
13:39 sri but first i need ice cream again :o
13:40 vti lite is the only right way to do it...
13:40 vti trust me :D
13:41 sri that smile is a trap
13:41 Foxcool Russian translation of mojo documentation coming so on. We trying to translate it. Learning two language: Perl and English. (;
13:41 sri :D
13:42 sri this smiley looks very suspicious in colloquy
13:42 Su-Shee vti: eh.. I'm trying to evaluate wether or not we'll port our entire application to mojo.. there is no "lite" or "one file" or "a handful of routes". :)
13:43 sri x_X
13:43 * sri just crashed
13:44 sri Su-Shee: when you generate a new mojolicious app, what exactly doesn't make sense?
13:45 vti Su-Shee: maybe you've generated mojo and not mojolicious?
13:45 sri that would be very confusing
13:46 sri "mojolicious generate app"
13:46 Su-Shee no, I called mojolicious generate app myapp
13:46 sri that should give you a very tiny app with one example for everything
13:47 Su-Shee yes. which I tried to change appropriately ;)
13:47 sri try to turn your confusion into questions :)
13:47 Su-Shee I've added a route in myapp.pm $r->route('/volkswagen/de/m​ember/')->to('member#new');
13:48 Su-Shee yeah wait, I'll have to get all files and dirs ;)
13:48 sri that would dispatch to myapp::Member->new
13:48 sri which is forbidden
13:48 Su-Shee then I copied Example.pm to Member.pm, added a new in there.
13:49 Foxcool rough volkswagen coders use mojo in car computer
13:49 sri new is a hidden method for obvious reasons ;p
13:49 vti sri: maybe a warning would be helpfull?
13:49 sri vti: i'm unsure about that, security risk
13:50 sri vti: could be easily used to flood the log file
13:50 vti debug mode only?
13:50 sri thats a possibility
13:51 vti anyway that's a logical error
13:51 vti maybe die is good too :)
13:51 Su-Shee I've changed it.
13:52 Su-Shee I added then in template a subdir member/ with a former new.html.ep (now called differently ;)
13:53 Su-Shee anyway. in Member.pm new is now called something else and calls $self->render(member => 'Whover');
13:53 Su-Shee Whoever.
13:53 Su-Shee which I thought gets translated into template/member/formernew.html.epl
13:55 sri it does
13:55 Su-Shee Result: The page you were requesting "/volkswagen/de/member" could not be found.
13:55 sri maybe a typo somewhere
13:56 Su-Shee in formernew.html.epl I assumed I could access "member" which would be a hashkey and gets translated into $member
13:56 sri only in .ep
13:56 sri not epl
13:57 sri actually we don't mention .epl in the documentation anymore i think
13:57 Su-Shee it's an ep, sorry.
13:57 sri then it is $member
13:58 Su-Shee and I have the whole thing running with myapp daemon --reload
14:01 Su-Shee uhm, when I remove the example default route, it works.
14:03 vti rly? :)
14:03 sri haha, you had the everything eating default route at the beginning? :)
14:03 Su-Shee err.. how should I know?
14:04 sri i think the guide says its fifo
14:08 Su-Shee where? I don't find it.
14:09 * sri scratches head
14:09 vti hm... i think namespaces is a bad idea for mojolicious extentions... like we have mojox::couchdb for example, but i want to write my own implementation and... it is already picked =/
14:09 vti or captcha thing and so on
14:09 sri not much you could do about that vti
14:11 vti or for example i have plugins, controllers and other stuff in my package, how should i name it? what has the highest priority?
14:11 vti for now i have my mojox::common with all my stuff and don't actually care.. but the day will come :)
14:12 sri welcome to the cpan ;p
14:13 sri the usual solution is to prefix modules with domain names
14:13 sri OrgMojolicious::CouchDB
14:13 vti vti.showmetheco.de::mojox::couchdb looks really good
14:13 sri :)
14:15 vti ruby guys have all those nice names...
14:16 Su-Shee so name it something entirely unrelated noone understands but you and two buddies. :)
14:16 Su-Shee vti: what's couch or sofa called in russian? ;)
14:17 sri VTIsHappyFunSpace::*
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14:17 sri that one is mine now!
14:18 vti oO
14:20 sri my brain is fried
14:29 Foxcool No refactoring unless a very important feature absolutely depends on it.
14:29 Foxcool
14:29 Foxcool Никакого рефакторинга, если только какая-то важная фича зависит от него.
14:29 Foxcool Никакого рефакторинга, если только какая-то важная фича зависит от него.
14:29 Foxcool Spell Cancel
14:29 Foxcool Edit History of edits (Latest: vti 7 hours, 20 minutes ago) Mark as ready §
14:29 Foxcool
14:29 Foxcool Add a comment
14:29 Foxcool
14:29 Foxcool Cancel
14:29 Foxcool It's not a feature without a test.
14:29 Foxcool
14:29 Foxcool Фича не является фичей без теста.
14:29 Foxcool как бы исправить, чтобы поцивильнее было. Извините за копипаст
14:29 Foxcool =/
14:29 was kicked by sri: Foxcool
14:29 Foxcool joined #mojo
14:30 Foxcool ups, wrong channel.
14:30 sri looks like it's not just my brain ;p
14:31 Foxcool yep (:
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17:53 GitHub147 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 09a41b7 (22 files in 6 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/94cWaf
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17:54 ashleydev sri: when's the next CPAN version coming out?
17:54 sri once the documentation is done
17:54 ashleydev (no push)
17:54 ashleydev k
17:56 vti scary cleanup
17:56 sri if theres a serious bug that needs to be fixed we can always make an emergency release though
17:56 sri vti: merging with memowes patches
17:56 sri all tests have descriptions now
17:57 sri i've also changed get_ok and friends to generate their own descriptions :)
17:57 vti ye, but wouldn't it be better if commit had his name?
17:57 sri ->get_ok('/foo') # GET /foo
17:58 sri vti: impossible, his branch is totally broken
17:58 sri and actually i've had half of the stuff done already because i didn't expect patches from him anymore :S
17:58 ask joined #mojo
17:58 * vti sighs deeply
17:59 sri there has been no communication for weeks :(
17:59 vti sri: marcus should have had his phone number :D
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18:00 GitHub134 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 0462a43 (1 files in 1 dirs): updated changes - http://bit.ly/dyRfZA
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18:00 dotan sri: ...sounds like a Google Summer of Code guy
18:01 sri but whatever, all that counts is that tests have descriptions now
18:02 sri header_is(...) will also generate a description automatically
18:02 sri looks quite good imo
18:02 sri try perl t/mojolicious/lite_app.t
18:03 vti nice
18:07 vti i haven't written a single line in perl for ages now
18:07 sri damn kgb
18:41 dotan Why is this the first time I'm hearing about detour and app embedding? When did this show up?
18:43 vti dotan: it's been awhile
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18:47 dotan I was wondering about how to do this.
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19:06 sri dotan: it's in the guide i think
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19:25 GitHub36 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 51c1f78 (5 files in 5 dirs): added and deprecated draft 75 WebSocket support - http://bit.ly/c8RRGn
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19:25 sri for convenience
19:25 sri since both, safari 5 and chrome still use the old version
19:27 vti no way, since when you listen to people? ;p
19:28 dotan I saw embedded_lite_app.t in the 22 file github update, looked at the source, saw the unfamiliar detour, and verified that it was indeed in the guide. I was sure I'd read it through and I didn't remember this.
19:29 sri vti: someone offered me ice cream if i readd it :o
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19:30 GitHub81 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7e05986 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/aAxuIt
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19:33 GitHub29 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 4d76bd7 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/aWfTE4
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20:10 sri Su-Shee: btw. what was the async discussion i missed about?
20:11 Su-Shee sri: leonerd made some interesting points and mentioned things like asynchron rendering (my translation, he chose TT as an example of doing stuff serial)
20:12 sri Su-Shee: ah, well, that breaks as soon as wrappers/layouts are involved
20:13 sri theoretically you could also turn our ep templates into small slices and write them individually, but you would miss out on high level features
20:14 sri since template rendering is usually pure cpu work there is not much to be gained by slicing it up though without working threads
20:15 sri the only reason really is to send the html header in advance, so the browser can start downloading static assets a little earlier
20:16 sri but it costs you usability
20:16 sri and maintainability
20:16 Su-Shee the discussion was half an hour long :)
20:17 sri marcus brought that up too recently
20:17 Su-Shee the essential was more or less how few people synchron/asynchron realize as a problem.
20:18 sri well, it shouldn't be a problem
20:18 sri in a perfect world we would all program erlang :)
20:18 Su-Shee in a perfect world erlang would look pretty.
20:18 sri indeed
20:19 sri there's a ruby for to the erlang vm going on though
20:19 sri *port
20:19 sri with immutable objects and stuff
20:20 sri reia or so
20:20 Su-Shee if I'm getting into this realm, I can do lisp, scheme, haskell, whatever as well or really use erlang. :)
20:37 * sri is tired
20:37 sri Zzz
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22:51 xantus sup
22:54 xantus I'm wondering if I can use client to post a file as the content body of a post
22:54 xantus not as a form post
23:17 xantus lol it stored it stringified

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