Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-09-07

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All times shown according to UTC.

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07:23 sri moin
07:27 xantus_ woot!
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07:28 xantus_ sprocket.socket is born
07:28 xantus_ re-born
07:28 xantus_ fake xhr -> websocket -> sprocket socket (mojo) -> couchdb
07:29 sri interesting
07:29 xantus_ You can manipulate couchdb over a persistent connection, even a _changes request
07:29 xantus_ I support chunking
07:30 xantus_ other things will be multiplexed over it
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07:31 xantus_ must sleep now
07:34 sri must wake up now :)
07:55 spleenjack hi! i'm trying to figure out with starman and psgi. and i don't understand how to make workers runs app->startup after forking. they do it after worker got first request only. but i want post-forking warmup: connecting to database, using controllers, load config and so on. what should i do for this?
07:56 * esskar screams "wake the fuck up"
08:09 koban good morning
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08:11 koban sri: can i  'extends' template that uses 'layout'?
08:12 sri koban: yes
08:12 sri no wait
08:12 sri one of the two
08:13 sri they are exclusive i think
08:13 maettu I'm writing a script on mojolicious which handles requests from qooxdoo-clients. are you interested in having a look at it?
08:13 koban so or layout or extends?
08:15 maettu (it works so far an I'm wondering if and how it could be integrated into mojo)
08:15 sri spleenjack: hmm, thats not so easy
08:15 sri koban: yes
08:15 koban thanks :)
08:16 sri maettu: integrated?
08:16 maettu sri: well, it could be uploaded on cpan..
08:17 sri make it a plugin :)
08:17 maettu sri: Namespace?
08:17 sri be creative p
08:17 sri ;p
08:18 sri Mojolicious::Plugin::QooxdooThingy :)
08:18 maettu sri: do you want to monitor it?
08:18 sri not really
08:19 maettu sri: it is o.k. then if I just upload..
08:19 * sri doesn't even know what quooxdoo is
08:20 maettu sri: qooxdoo is a javascript framework for really cool rich webpages
08:20 sri ah, almost looks like an ide
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08:21 MojoGuest588 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (53 hits)
08:22 maettu o.k. I will choose a name and upload to cpan. If there is a problem just mail me
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08:23 GitHub70 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 800e1b3 (2 files in 2 dirs): improved Mojo::Server::PSGI to preload applications - http://bit.ly/b3JqWh
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08:23 sri spleenjack: that will do the trick
08:23 sri we totally need more plugins on cpan :)
08:23 sri like tons!
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08:23 * sri cracks the whip
08:24 maettu I have just one :-(
08:24 sri maettu++ # make more!
08:25 maettu sri: chances are
08:25 sri can anyone think of a case where one wouldn't want to preload a mojolicious app?
08:26 maettu there exists a qooxdoo rpc handler using CGI, but with Mojo everything is much simpler
08:26 maettu (I just needet to get started..)
08:31 maettu is there already a plugin to make coffee?
08:32 sri i only heard rumors
08:33 sri i think xantus was working on that :)
08:48 spleenjack sri: thanks a lot! this is exactly want i want :)
08:49 sri spleenjack: i guess thats what everybody will want :)
08:51 spleenjack hm. startup preloads on master process, not worker. but that's even better :)
08:53 spleenjack only one problem remains - how install bleeding edge mojo from git on production servers without git)
08:53 janus make dist somewhere else?
08:54 spleenjack yep. i'll write the script
09:15 spleenjack sri: is it possible to create premanent download url to tarball containing last revision of mojo? it'll be comfortable to install mojo using cpanm
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09:17 janus spleenjack: i think github provides it already via ``Download Source''
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09:18 janus not the same thing, but at some thing :)
09:18 janus s/at //
09:18 spleenjack oh my
09:18 spleenjack i'm an idiot
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09:31 janus sri: no modification/deletion of routes possible or just not implemented?
09:31 sri how would that work?
09:32 sri like $r->delete('/foo')?
09:32 sri path is not unique
09:34 janus finding a specific *objects* in the tree wouldn't be a problem (don't tell me the css selectors work there ;))
09:34 janus s/ a//
09:35 sri finding a route is the main problem
09:35 sri next problem is how much do you delete in nested routes
09:36 janus ok, something to look at :)
09:36 janus i just like self-hosting apps too much not to try it ;)
09:36 janus without being too invasive, that is
09:39 janus hm, then again, a restart is probably enough with dynamic route setup
09:42 sri if your routes are that dynamic you could also handle them on another layer
09:42 sri /(*everything) and do stuff in the action
09:44 janus i specifically want to use mojos parameter system, its pretty good abstracted and so far fits all other stuff i've built around it :)
09:45 sri you mean placeholders?
09:46 sri because you get query and post parameters anyway
09:46 sri the whole placeholder system is in MojoX::Routes::Pattern, and can be used independently
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10:06 maettu what I don't understand about the plugin system is how I can write a plugin that acts like a route.
10:07 maettu everything I find are events that happen before or after a dispatch
10:10 crab what do you mean, that acts like a route?
10:11 sri maettu: your plugins register normal routes
10:11 sri maettu: there's an example in the guides
10:12 sri the register method of your plugin gets the $app instance
10:12 sri so you get $app->routes
10:12 sri you can do *everything* startup can
10:13 maettu sri: o.k., I'll see
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10:39 sri vti: what have you done with yko? Oo
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11:18 sri is there anyone who doesn't love the new helper methods? :)
11:23 Alias \o
11:23 Alias (Well, I have no idea what you are talking about, just stirring)
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11:26 sri http://groups.google.com/group/mojolicio​us/browse_thread/thread/95a502bfe0ac350b
11:29 sri o/
11:43 sri it's pretty much the most requested feature ever
11:44 sri plugins can now add methods to controllers in a sandboxed fashion
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12:15 GitHub103 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * b78f715 (8 files in 5 dirs): added experimental add_helper method to Mojolicious - http://bit.ly/bYd8cQ
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12:18 * sri loves it
12:19 sri plugins are so simple and idiot proof
12:19 * sri challenges the universe to make better idiots!
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12:23 GitHub136 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 6ddd8fb (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/atWiLd
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12:25 GitHub44 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * b487003 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/9NasUV
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12:26 sri helpers, previously meh, now a killer feature :D
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12:30 GitHub70 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5b5a2ff (1 files in 1 dirs): add deprecation note - http://bit.ly/dxfzhy
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12:32 sri hmm, maybe add_helper should just be called helper
12:32 sri app->helper(foo => sub { ... })
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12:41 GitHub120 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * d7765d6 (8 files in 5 dirs): renamed add_helper to helper - http://bit.ly/d22wnZ
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12:46 perlrocks Twitter: "Improved the #mojolicious helper system further today, a thing of beauty, very happy with it now. :) http://bit.ly/9WRX79 #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/23233779917
12:57 * sri is very happy now
12:57 sri helpers in controllers were the one big weakness of mojolicious
12:57 sri now it's finally a strength
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13:02 GitHub81 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 2780325 (2 files in 2 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/9e4nR8
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13:03 marcus add_halper
13:05 sri HALP!
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13:10 GitHub100 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 8301b0f (1 files in 1 dirs): improved helper test - http://bit.ly/dagqpD
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13:15 perlrocks Twitter: "Smart: RT @kraih: Improved the #mojolicious helper system today, a thing of beauty, very happy with it now. :) http://bit.ly/9WRX79 #perl" --phillipadsmith http://twitter.com/phillip​adsmith/status/23235809223
13:15 esskar is there a way to distinguish get and post routes in normal routes?
13:15 sri $self->req->method?
13:15 sri or do you mean in the route definition?
13:16 sri route('/foo')->via('get')->to(...)?
13:16 esskar ok, the via
13:16 esskar thanks
13:16 sri it's also in the guide
13:16 sri Routing.pod
13:16 sri =head2 HTTP Methods
13:20 esskar there a guides? ;)
13:20 esskar +re
13:20 * sri throws marcus at esskar
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13:32 nuclon good day
13:40 * sri waves
13:43 nuclon is it possible to deploy mojo for apache/mod_fastcgi as /, not as /myapp?
13:43 sri guess so, why shouldn't it?
13:44 sri i'm not an apache expert though, this is a pure apache question
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13:54 MojoGuest527 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (58 hits)
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13:59 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: Improved the #mojolicious helper system further today, a thing of beauty, very happy with it now. :) http://bit.ly/9WRX79 #perl" --insurgentsoft http://twitter.com/insurge​ntsoft/status/23239165569
14:12 esskar is there a way to disable template caching?
14:12 esskar i think i asked that again but probably overlooked the sanswer
14:12 sri esskar: why would you want that?
14:13 esskar sri: for layout testing
14:13 sri for testing just use --reload
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14:13 sri it will take care of clearing the cache
14:14 esskar has this changed? used to work only for the perl code
14:14 sri nope, i think it always worked
14:15 sri there was a bug once that prevented external templates from being reloaded for lite apps, but that was months ago
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16:00 marcus sri: http://pastie.textmate.org/pr​ivate/0dn4fwvnwywangnymncwua <- first outline for a mojolicious brochure
16:02 * sri likes
16:03 marcus cool. Will try to hack it together in pages. Do you have a suggestion for the artwork? Or a vector version of your web in a box art?
16:04 marcus actually, a vector version of the logo would be nice too.
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16:05 sri sadly not, the web in a box vector is lost
16:05 sri i've not yet redrawn it
16:05 marcus :'(
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16:05 sri thank you freeverse!
16:06 marcus maybe the cloudy logo from the header would be enough
16:06 marcus frontpage should not be too cluttered
16:06 sri i've redrawn the cloud recently
16:06 sri lets see if i can finish the shading
16:07 marcus kewl
16:07 sri what format do you need?
16:07 sri (as in size)
16:07 sri then i'll render it
16:08 sri same as the standard oreilly book covers?
16:08 marcus suitable size for printing on the cover of a A5
16:08 marcus I guess that is about the same size as an oreilly book cover
16:08 marcus a little smaller
16:09 sri http://kraih.com/usingperl6-sri.jpg
16:09 sri thats normal epub book cover
16:09 marcus that would be fine
16:09 marcus I can scale it down a bit to make it fit without any problems
16:09 sri oki
16:10 sri what about colors?
16:11 sri any restrictions?
16:11 sri the cloud usually needs a dark background
16:11 marcus it might be printed in B&W :-/
16:12 marcus I'll determine if we have access to color printing in 20-30 minutes
16:12 marcus conference starts tomorrow, so we're under a bit of time pressure.
16:12 sri ok
16:13 marcus they have a nice color Perl banner over the stand at least.
16:13 marcus unfortunately they but Camelia (not your version) on it :Z
16:14 marcus like http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/Perl_JZ2010_​965x2000.pdf_%281_page%29-20100907-181348.png but with camelia instead of the number 6
16:15 sri i'll put Amelia on the cover too then :)
16:16 marcus good plan ;)
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16:19 perlrocks Twitter: "Working on a #mojolicious flyer for the Perl Mongers stand at JavaZone tomorrow." --marcusramberg http://twitter.com/marcusr​amberg/status/23251054532
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17:16 tempire marcus: suggestion for brochure: mention that full apps, including binary data, can be distributed in one file
17:20 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: #mojolicious plugins just got a lot more powerful. http://pastie.org/1141777 #perl" --tempiretech http://twitter.com/tempiretech/status/23255815720
17:24 marcus sri: do you have a cover for me?
17:24 marcus the rest of the brochure is done
17:24 sri marcus: just a few mins :)
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17:33 vti sri: he's on vacation
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17:36 ash_ can you access the raw string that $self->param("foo"); is accessing? i think its decoding a string wrong
17:37 sri marcus: hope you're not disappointed, the best i could do in the short amount of time :/
17:37 sri http://kraih.com/mojolicious-brochure.jpeg
17:37 sri really just a quick hack
17:39 sri it should also look good in grayscale
17:41 marcus http://search.cpan.org/~maluku​/Dotiac-0.8/lib/Dotiac/DTL.pm
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17:46 sri stupid netsplit
17:46 sri what did i miss?
17:47 ash_ do you know why "«" is getting turned into ��?
17:48 marcus sri: 19:43 <@marcus> did sri just quit on me? :/
17:48 sri :o
17:48 marcus sri: people here are waiting for me to start the printer and drink a beer with them.
17:48 sri ash_: nope, but the unicode tests are rather good, try turning it into a failing test case
17:49 sri marcus: then start the printer and drink beer!
17:49 sri i've not seen anything you wrote (in case you have)
17:50 marcus sri: the last thing I saw from you was 19:24 <@sri> marcus: just a few mins :)
17:50 sri Oo
17:50 marcus did you finish the cover?
17:50 sri 19:37] sri: marcus: hope you're not disappointed, the best i could do in the short amount of time
17:50 sri [19:37] sri: http://kraih.com/mojolicious-brochure.jpeg
17:50 sri [19:37] sri: really just a quick hack
17:50 sri [19:39] sri: it should also look good in grayscale
17:50 marcus ah, thanks
17:50 marcus I'm very happy :)
17:50 sri \o/
17:54 ash_ sri: http://gist.github.com/568737 does it for me
17:54 ash_ with this url: http://localhost:3000/?input=say%20%22%C2%AB%22;
17:56 ash_ saying: Mojo::ByteStream->new("http://localhost:3000/?input=say%20%22%C2%AB%22;")->url_decode->to_string; prints corretly: 'http://localhost:3000/?input=say "«";'
17:57 ash_ so, bytestream is working right, i image, but something else is causing the input to turn into garbage
17:58 ash_ perl 5.12.1 is my version of perl, if you need any other info about my environment, let me know
18:04 sri mojo version is usually helpful
18:04 sri ash_: i also need to know the expected result
18:06 ash_ version: 0.999929 expected output: Input was: say "«";
18:06 ash_ i might be doing something wrong though
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18:14 GitHub165 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * cab4612 (1 files in 1 dirs): added unicode tests - http://bit.ly/dfXgRq
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18:14 sri ash_: can't find anything
18:18 sri ash_: and your example works flawless if i remove all the encoding crap
18:19 sri why would you use that anyway?
18:23 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @marcusramberg: Working on a #mojolicious flyer for the Perl Mongers stand at JavaZone tomorrow. #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/23260222393
18:25 ash_ sri: i thought i needed it?
18:26 sri what for?
18:26 ash_ to get the utf-8 encoding to function properly
18:26 sri actually, i have no idea what it even does exactly
18:28 ash_ use Encode was actually a from when i was using the encode function to try to convert from one encoding to another to see if that helped but it didn't
18:28 sri i guess it screwed up the string you appended to and then turned everything to garbage
18:29 sri all you really ever have to do for proper utf-8 support is "use utf8", and that only if your actual source code contains utf-8 characters
18:29 ash_ i took out all the stuff at the top except use Mojolicious::Lite; but i still get « instead of «
18:31 sri ash_: http://pastie.org/1144172
18:31 sri no problem here at all
18:32 sri using latest github
18:32 perlrocks Twitter: "And here's the last minute cover design for @marcusramberg #mojolicious flyer. :) http://bit.ly/aVZnLb #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/23260840870
18:32 ash_ it looks right in the terminal, but a browser its odd
18:33 ash_ in chrome (6 for OS X) i get the «
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18:33 sri umm, maybe add a charset content type header then?
18:34 sri btw. with your original example i got garbage everywhere
18:34 ash_ ya, thats it, thanks, that use encoding 'utf8'; must of been doing something wrong
18:35 ash_ i took all of that out, now my real app is working properly, so, that was screwing something up, thats what i get for copying and pasting stuff off the web
18:36 sri indeed
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18:40 sri marcus: btw. i like the django template syntax
18:40 sri but they really missing out on the whole tag helper thing
18:40 sri *+are
18:42 sri the whole {{ foo }} {{ endfoo }} thing is also silly
18:43 sri if python could be properly embedded they would do it
18:43 sri but the whole indentation thing ruins that
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18:48 sri marcus: oh, i totally didn't get the catalyst pun..."web development can be fun again", haha, clever
19:02 perlrocks Twitter: "@rainboxx Nope, new users are expected to start with lite and get to know normal #mojolicious from there over time." --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/23262793350
19:03 sri i even cleanup retweets, i'm like that monk guy from the tv series. :(
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19:10 sri http://www.bohemiancoding.com/sketch # woot, new os x vector app
19:10 perlrocks Twitter: "Beautiful :)  RT @kraih And here's the last minute cover design for @marcusramberg #mojolicious flyer. :) http://bit.ly/aVZnLb #perl" --sharifulin http://twitter.com/sharifulin/status/23263326529
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19:12 MojoGuest961 From: http://www.google.com.br/search?sourceid=​chrome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=websocket+demo (1 hits)
19:12 MojoGuest961 testing connection
19:13 MojoGuest961 server load high. killing process 1002
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19:22 perlrocks Twitter: "First stepps with #mojolicious" --rabenfeder http://twitter.com/rabenfeder/status/23264067656
19:24 marcus sri: sketch looks great
19:24 sri sooo much fun
19:24 sri buggy as hell though
19:24 sri adobe killer potential
19:24 marcus let's hope that is temporary :)
19:25 sri the developer cares
19:25 marcus yepp
19:27 sri interesting how sketch is pixel based
19:30 sri it's the vector app of my dreams :D
19:31 marcus it is pretty awesome
19:31 marcus this is what I have so far: http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitc​h/Untitled-20100907-213146.png :D
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19:42 sri :D
19:43 sri aww, svg import sucks :(
19:46 marcus sri: we have a new oslo.pm member from the UK
19:46 marcus he said he's thinking about writing a mojolicious book
19:46 sri \o/
19:47 marcus and a renderer for that django-like template module
19:47 sri *shakes fist*
19:48 * marcus is watching http://oreillynet.com/pub/e/1708
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19:53 sri i think xantus was in love with the _changes thingy
19:54 * sri wonders what hicks has to say about sketch
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20:33 esskar_ sketch where?
20:33 esskar_ found it
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21:05 Rhaen good evening!
21:05 * sri waves
21:07 Rhaen Stumbled on mojolicious some time ago - now I have the time to look into it and play around with it. Awesome stuff, guys!
21:07 Rhaen ++!
21:08 sri \o/
21:17 Rhaen hm, still trying out to figure out the basics.
21:17 Rhaen is there any real beginners documentation underway or will it be useful to record the "early" steps
21:17 Rhaen and all my mistakes to write a small starters guide about it?
21:19 sri that would be very useful
21:20 sri right now there's the tutorial in Mojolicious::Lite and the guides in Mojolicious::Guides
21:20 Rhaen k.  I am working though the tutorials right now.
21:21 Rhaen still searching for the "templating" like TT in catalyst
21:22 sri Mojolicious::Guides::Rendering?
21:24 Rhaen sure - :) just getting all the puzzle pieces on the table to sort them out later :)
21:25 sri sure, and remember, patches are welcome :)
21:35 sri time to sleep, nn
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