Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-09-26

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
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01:44 MojoGuest995 From: http://www.google.com.pe/search?sourceid=ch​rome&ie=UTF-8&q=extjs%2Bwebsockets (1 hits)
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01:49 vti sri: when i use mojo, i feel excited, is it ok, doctor?
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06:12 marcus_ mojophilia
06:39 Rhaen oh no, doctor, we have another mojo jedi here!
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08:15 sri moin
08:15 sri esskar: i don't understand the question
08:15 sri Rhaen: yes, i think an open wiki is ok
08:37 und3f is now known as und3f[A]
09:30 esskar_ is it a good idea to require a controler instead of a transaction in MojoX::Authen->handle?
10:01 Rhaen sri: =
10:01 Rhaen hm.
10:01 Rhaen sri?
10:01 sri Rhaen: ?
10:01 Rhaen sri!
10:02 sri esskar: up to you
10:02 Rhaen ok, I'll edit everything in your wiki then :)
10:02 sri \o/
10:02 Rhaen or do you prefer pulling the changes from my wiki?
10:02 sri not at all ;p
10:02 Rhaen pull would be "pull by hand, and push to the real wiki" :)
10:03 sri the point of the wiki is for everyone to write documentation as easy as possible
10:03 Rhaen which makes it easier to write as I can use _MY_ editor
10:03 Rhaen next thing: I want to use pod
10:04 Rhaen that way the wiki can be cloned by git and can be read offline
10:04 Rhaen which is something cool.
10:04 sri is that supported by the github wiki?
10:04 Rhaen I hate wiki web stuff if I can't download it.
10:04 Rhaen sri: sure!
10:04 sri well, do whatever the github wiki allows :)
10:04 Rhaen markdown, plaintext, pod, textile, githubs own thing.
10:05 Rhaen ok, so let's switch to pod then :)
10:05 Rhaen awesome!
10:05 Rhaen ok, but first!...!...!!!!11eleven
10:05 Rhaen SC2 - 3 battles playing Zerg in co-op mode. I'll cya later
10:05 sri haha
10:06 sri i play zerg too
10:06 Rhaen oh, these are my first games playing zerg
10:06 Rhaen I am a casual online gamer
10:06 Rhaen I finished the episode thingy so I am a whimp playing online games
10:07 sri zerg are most challenging
10:07 Rhaen hm. yes - that's what I heard
10:07 sri i'm a casual too though
10:08 Rhaen I watch the replays from the pro gamers sometimes - they are sick.
10:08 Rhaen they are all sick!
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10:26 GitHub76 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * f0f217c (3 files in 3 dirs): added support for selector groups to Mojo::DOM - http://bit.ly/cybR9s
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10:29 sri changes are not ad big as they seem, just moved a few lines around to make it work :)
10:29 sri *as
10:38 sri Rhaen: your wiki changes look good, i'll steal quite a bit for the faq
10:39 sri "Bevor you head off" haha
10:44 perlrocks Twitter: "Added selector group support to Mojo::DOM, that should make web scraping even more fun. :) http://bit.ly/dsFK2O #perl #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/25580039881
11:03 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: Added selector group support to Mojo::DOM, that should make web scraping even more fun. :) http://bit.ly/dsFK2O #perl #mojoli ..." --marcusramberg http://twitter.com/marcusr​amberg/status/25580935878
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11:17 GitHub65 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * ccf4b8f (2 files in 2 dirs): added tests and documentation for multiple attribute selectors - http://bit.ly/d0Ktd8
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11:20 kimoto How about this performance enhancement.
11:20 kimoto http://github.com/yuki-kimoto/mojo/commit​/85e884a9e3718a378e6795f15a7c043ea70ce831
11:20 kimoto profile
11:21 kimoto by Devel::NYTProf
11:21 kimoto http://pastie.org/1182302
11:21 kimoto url_escape and url_unescape is called many times.
11:22 kimoto so I fixed these method is called on demand.
11:26 sri kimoto: looks good
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11:31 GitHub129 mojo: master yuki-kimoto * 2d69554 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved Mojo::ByteStream url_escape and url_unescape
11:31 GitHub129 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 892f6b8 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup
11:31 GitHub129 mojo: master commits ccf4b8f...892f6b8 - http://bit.ly/cTdHHD
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11:32 kimoto sri: you are intend to improve performance?
11:32 kimoto wrong!
11:32 kimoto sorry.
11:33 sri kimoto: sure, why wouldn't i? :)
11:34 kimoto In profile, I think bottleneck is b(). creating object(bless) is a little slow.
11:34 sri thats possible
11:35 kimoto but, If We want to improve the performance, you will change something.
11:36 sri first someone has to prove that it is worth it
11:37 sri such a change would cost usability, which is something i wouldn't do if the benefit wasn't enourmous
11:37 sri and this time i don't mean micro benchmarks
11:38 sri i mean as in making a real mojolicious app substantially faster
11:38 sri and i don't think bless is slow
11:39 sri the actual method calls are what adds up i think
11:43 sri at some point you also have to accept that "a little slow" is good enough for the task ;)
11:47 kimoto sri: is mojolicious faster than Ruby on rails.
11:48 sri apples vs oranges?
11:48 sri you don't measure framwork performance in cpu cycles
11:49 sri it is measured by how fast you get stuff done
11:50 sri people really need to think about why they actually chose a framework in the first place ;)
11:51 kimoto He want to finish his job easy.
11:52 sri if we can make mojolicious faster without sacrificing "programmer performance" thats great, but i'm not willing to make sacrifices there
11:53 sri thats the point, in the end we optimize for "programmer performance", not cpu cycles
11:53 sri otherwise why would you ever choose perl over C? :)
11:54 kimoto It is easy to process text.
11:54 sri convenience, exactly
11:58 kimoto but, I think code of ruby on rails is not so beautiful for some higher performance.
11:59 sri rails can scale, thats all that matters in the end
11:59 sri the twitter frontend is still rails
12:00 sri and rails is really really slow
12:01 sri measured in cpu cycles
12:02 sri fact is, it doesn't matter
12:02 kimoto indeed, web application can scale easily.
12:04 sri here's something i posted to the list recently "Take reddit for example, they handle about 800 req/s during peak hours with 80 servers, thats just 10 req/s per server.
12:04 sri People often mistake mistake micro benchmarks with scalability."
12:04 kimoto more inexpensive cpu, less important performance of web framework.
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12:05 sri and now cpu cores
12:06 sri programmer performance does not double every 6 months :D
12:10 vti computers get faster, programs get worse
12:10 sri i think we always had bad programs
12:11 kimoto what is bad programs?
12:11 sri bad code
12:12 sri there has always been bad code, it's not a recent trend
12:14 kimoto i think perl have many bad codes. but mojoliciou have beautiful code.
12:14 sri i'm not talking about mojolicious here :)
12:14 sri just code in general
12:16 Rhaen uh-oh, a new SC2 patch
12:16 Rhaen oops. right channel
12:16 sri uh oh
12:16 sri hope they address those exploiter
12:17 Rhaen like me? I am just using Mojolicious::Lite!
12:17 Rhaen nah, haven't played for 5 weeks or so - the patches are maybe old
12:17 sri hmm
12:18 Rhaen like in 'hmm (TM)'?
12:18 sri hmm, as in "then it's likely not fixed yet"
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13:02 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: Added selector group support to Mojo::DOM, that should make web scraping even more fun. :) http://bit.ly/dsFK2O #perl #mojoli ..." --pr0gm4 http://twitter.com/pr0gm4/status/25587812123
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13:42 Rhaen omg!
13:43 sri oO
13:44 Rhaen ok, what will be the format of the wiki?
13:44 Rhaen I would opt for pod
13:45 Rhaen (as it can be downloaded, read and - if needed it can be easily converted)
13:48 sri pod then
13:49 Rhaen fine.
13:49 Rhaen You'll be awared the documentation medal for future related formats!
13:49 Rhaen hahaha
13:50 Rhaen awarded it is
13:52 sri \o/
14:14 Rhaen YEEES! YES! YESSS!
14:14 Rhaen OMFG! H.s., it may work!
14:14 Rhaen oh, sorry.
14:17 Rhaen Starting to integrate my wikistuff into the mojo wiki thing
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15:49 sri hmm, guess Mojo::Command::Generate::App should be removed
15:49 sri considering nobody is supposed to actually use it -.-
15:52 polvo offtopic: can anybody recommend some docs on building a simple plugin-aware app in Perl?
15:53 sri not that i know of
15:57 Rhaen sri: I hate the wiki!
15:57 Rhaen really!
15:57 Rhaen aw!
15:57 Rhaen I am just doing this for you!
15:57 Rhaen I need another SC2 break!
15:57 sri heh
15:59 Rhaen we can fix all that broken stuff later, let's migrate the stuff
15:59 Rhaen then correct it, I will work on it later
16:00 crab nobody is supposed to be using generate app?
16:01 sri not the mojo version
16:01 dotan crab: it just confuses people, and mojo apps are very simple - copy paste from pod to create.
16:01 sri just the mojolicious ones
16:02 sri ye
16:02 sri we just had someone getting confused about it on the list
16:10 crab oh
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16:11 GitHub61 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * be07e35 (8 files in 6 dirs): removed Mojo::Command::Generate::App - http://bit.ly/9ZFRXS
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16:12 sri moved all generators to mojolicious, much cleaner
16:13 sri hmm, sc2 break is a good idea
16:14 crab oh
16:14 crab sri: now there's a commit message that could've used more explanation
16:15 sri nobody will notice the change :)
16:16 crab maybe i misunderstand the change
16:16 crab will "mojolicious generate app x" stop working?
16:16 sri unaffected
16:16 crab aha
16:16 sri mojo generate app was a different command
16:16 sri generating an application on a much lower level
16:16 sri a level nobody uses directly
16:26 dotan sri: maybe alias mojo (the command) for mojolicious? less typing.
16:26 sri hmm
16:29 sri actually we could standardize on the mojo command even
16:30 sri not like would cause any trouble
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16:35 GitHub110 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * e51aefb (4 files in 3 dirs): replaced the "mojolicious" command with "mojo", for convenience - http://bit.ly/cTzLoq
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16:35 sri one command to rule them all
16:36 sri that should rule out any confusion in the future
16:40 sri also a very painless change, considering how the command is usually only used for the generators
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17:23 crab yay
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18:00 GitHub99 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 4bce13c (31 files in 11 dirs): deprecated all *_cb methods in favor of on_* methods - http://bit.ly/aP6aCv
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18:01 sri on_ is cooler than _cb :)
18:19 DaTa agreed :)
18:25 crab is a new CPAN release coming up soon, btw?
18:27 Rhaen puuuh.
18:27 Rhaen I don't like this wiki
18:27 Rhaen done.
18:28 Rhaen now I will pull from kraih's wiki.git and send him everything using patches
18:28 Rhaen muhhhhhhaaaahaha
18:28 * sri doesn't apply wiki patches
18:29 sri crab: yes
18:29 Rhaen oh come on. It's way easier to work with offline access
18:30 Rhaen it's total annoying to edit _THIS_ wiki
18:30 Rhaen so, :) what about a sample mojo book in a "normal" github repo then?
18:31 Rhaen Only pod is allowed and we only ship pod files.
18:31 Rhaen no libs, no magic. Nothing - just a basic doc module like
18:32 Rhaen MojoX::Book
18:32 sri feel free :)
18:33 Rhaen but we really should think of using this wiki for collaborational things
18:33 Rhaen it doesn't make too much sense when vti keeps his things inside its github somewhere.
18:35 Rhaen there is some stuff in the wiki already :)
18:35 Rhaen like the whole wiki.rabenfeder thing (which I will remove right now)
18:37 Rhaen gone :)
18:41 crab Rhaen: what wiki are you talking about that you hate so much?
18:42 Rhaen the github wiki thingy
18:42 Rhaen http://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki
18:42 Rhaen this one.
18:42 Rhaen it is, well - somewhat ok.
18:43 Rhaen however you have to edit it online. Every github user can write into it
18:43 Rhaen you can git clone it, but you can't push it back
18:45 Rhaen maybe once everything has settled it will be easier
18:47 Rhaen I like the idea of downloading a documentation pack which is an add-on to the project documentation
18:48 Rhaen like Catalyst
18:48 Rhaen and Catalyst::Manual
18:49 Rhaen ok, the idea is not new - but I like it.
18:50 sri Mojolicious::Tutorial?
18:51 Rhaen good idea! (for the tutorial)
18:52 crab how do inline templates work? if i'm doing a Mojolicious::Plugin::CrabAuth and it needs a couple of templates, can i put them in CrabAuth.pm?
18:55 sri yes, but you need to set some stash value
18:55 sri since it defaults to the main package
18:55 sri i think
18:56 sri no wait
18:56 sri it might just work :)
18:56 sri i made it a bit smarter recently
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19:14 marcus_ sri: did you just deprecate the mojolicious command line?
19:14 marcus_ isn't it used in a bunch of tutorials and talks and stufF?
19:14 sri marcus_: nope
19:14 marcus_ ah
19:14 marcus_ you just made them the same?
19:14 sri just unified
19:14 marcus_ oki, good.
19:15 marcus_ I've actually done that in the past
19:15 marcus_ mojo generate app when I meant mojolicious
19:15 marcus_ and been very confused afterwards
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20:26 petrus_a Just upgraded Perl to 5.12.1 (macports doesn't have .2 yet?) & just installed Mojo (0.999929, Comet) and I'm getting an error "Use of uninitialized value $nid in hash element at /opt/local/lib/perl5/site_​perl/5.12.1/Mojo/Client.pm line 892.
20:26 petrus_a Can't locate object method "each" via package "Mojo::DOM" at -e line 1." Google showed someone else talking about this in IRC, but I couldn't figure out if it was actually a bug & if so if if there's a workaround. Thoughts?
20:26 sri fixed in Hot Bewerage
20:26 sri Beverage
20:33 petrus_a Thanks. Any idea when it will be up on CPAN? or is there a preferred way to dl with git?
20:34 sri few days
20:36 petrus_a good deal. thanks.
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21:10 GitHub77 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 37981a4 (39 files in 6 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/aJ7pq2
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21:37 GitHub190 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * ec4c83a (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed typo - http://bit.ly/9jZduz
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21:38 GitHub5 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 906a1e7 (1 files in 1 dirs): fixed typo - http://bit.ly/9M7Vvm
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