Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-10-05

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
02:35 janus left #mojo
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02:47 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @vtivti Mojolicious::Plugin::TtRenderer now supports inline templates http://bit.ly/ac00px #Mojolicious #perl" --xomaa http://twitter.com/xomaa/status/26421343244
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04:32 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: RT @vtivti: Mojolicious::Plugin::TtRenderer now supports inline templates http://bit.ly/ac00px #Mojolicious #perl" --insurgentsoft http://twitter.com/insurge​ntsoft/status/26428373578
04:36 Rhaen good morning everyone
04:42 Foxcool joined #mojo
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04:47 Rhaen :)
05:07 marcus_ sri: I want live analytics with htlog analysis. that would be killer.
05:08 Rhaen moin marcus_
05:08 Rhaen hej, the wiki is growing slowly
05:08 Rhaen that's nice.
05:09 marcus_ need to add a debugging section to the testing guide.
05:12 Rhaen hmpf. time to get to work
05:12 Rhaen cya later :)
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05:25 marcus_ 20:29 <@mst> autarch: because I don't have a spare quad xeon to run mojomojo on
05:25 marcus_ 20:30 <@mst> "mojomojo: actually more resource hungry than socialtext"
05:25 marcus_ mst is such a darling..
05:25 marcus_ Who needs enemies with friends like these.
05:25 Alias It certainly consumes a lot of modules...
05:25 tardisx hey I run mojomojo on a vps with limited resources
05:26 marcus_ tardisx: so does dandv.
05:26 tardisx I'd tell you the URL but I'm afraid of what would happen if I got 2 simultaneous hits :-D
05:26 marcus_ :D
05:26 marcus_ I've been thinking alot about mojomojo 2 lately
05:27 marcus_ considering moving from DBIC+Catalyst to one of the NOSQL engines and Mojo
05:27 kvorg left #mojo
05:27 Alias The NOSQL seems like a waste
05:27 marcus_ either couch or mongodb probably
05:27 marcus_ Alias: very easy to build trees in couchdb afaict
05:27 Alias Is the database extremely read heavy?
05:28 marcus_ and it's very easy to install
05:28 marcus_ Alias: we do some funky stuff with nested sets
05:28 marcus_ to implement our current tree functionality
05:28 marcus_ the other option is to use git as a backend.
05:28 Alias Let me double check
05:28 Alias This is a blog right?
05:28 marcus_ wiki
05:28 marcus_ tree based wiki
05:28 Alias ah
05:29 Alias I've never actually seen one in action
05:29 Alias URL?
05:29 marcus_ mojomojo.org
05:37 Alias Seems like a lot of modules to support a wiki
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06:17 marcus_ Alias: it's a wiki with a lot of functionality.
06:17 marcus_ but just catalyst + dbic adds a pretty big graph
06:18 Alias ya
06:18 Alias I see 30meg of RAM gone on my machine
06:18 Alias And DBIx::Class has a very light startup if you don't use it
06:19 Alias use Catalyst; is 25meg
06:19 * Alias is not a fan of the Moose conversion
06:19 marcus_ yeah, that's prett sick.
06:19 marcus_ Alias: catalyst is without direction since sri left.
06:20 marcus_ look at http://cpansearch.perl.org/src/BOBTF​ISH/Catalyst-Runtime-5.80029/Changes
06:20 marcus_ what things in the 5.8 series do web developers actually care about?
06:20 Alias I wouldn't necesarily say that
06:20 Alias I think the direction he wanted to go was destructive :)
06:21 Alias Catalyst became a module that Big Projects depend on
06:21 Alias There's a certain risk aversion necesary there
06:21 marcus_ heh, the reason the core group blew up was because he wanted to move the vcs tree :p
06:21 Alias It blew up because he tried to rollback democracy
06:21 marcus_ well, once we got democracy it turned out nobody cared.
06:22 marcus_ t0m and rafl wasn't even in the core group back then.
06:22 Alias Trying to suidice the Catalyst package didn't help much either
06:22 Alias suicide
06:22 Alias Even if he did revert it a few hours later
06:23 marcus_ sure, it was a really dumb move.
06:23 marcus_ but I think he was pretty desperate about getting his baby taken away from him.
06:23 marcus_ I'm not saying sri is without fault in the situation.
06:23 marcus_ he was a pretty stubborn cock.
06:23 marcus_ Just saying catalyst is pretty screwed.
06:24 Alias Dunno about that for sure
06:24 Alias But I think they've angled themselves for a pretty high development world
06:24 Alias In the same way only large companies do full on mod_perl
06:24 Alias They trended in that direction
06:25 marcus_ yeah
06:25 Alias Seems to be a common pattern
06:26 Alias You make something, people start using it
06:26 Alias The biggest users hire the most people, so they start to influence things
06:26 Alias Code starts to just assume you have bigger and bigger baseline resources, because those are the people that invfluence the code the most
06:26 Alias And eventually you aren't appropriate for small users any more
06:26 Alias Mojo is going to same way I think, slowly
06:27 Alias You can't run it on Android any more
06:27 Alias Because Mojo assumes you need Unicode or something, and won't avoid things like Encode when you are doing simple thing
06:27 Alias (Or so it appears)
06:28 marcus_ it could run on android before?
06:29 Alias I suspect in the earliest versions it probably could
06:29 Alias I should probably go prove that
06:29 Alias oh crap
06:30 Alias *UNIVERSAL::import = *Exporter::import is being done by TT or something
06:30 marcus_ ouch
06:30 marcus_ Alias: how come android perl can§t do Encode?
06:31 Alias no, it's me!
06:31 Alias What The Fuck
06:31 marcus_ lol
06:31 Alias use File::Find::Rule::VCS ()
06:31 Alias DB<15> m UNIVERSAL
06:31 Alias import
06:32 marcus_ Alias: http://code.google.com/p/android​-scripting/issues/detail?id=108
06:32 Alias oh wtf
06:32 Alias use UNIVERSAL;
06:33 marcus_ what is doing that?
06:33 Alias FFR::VCS does the use
06:33 Alias UNIVERSAL.pm does the aliasing to Exporter
06:34 Alias # UNIVERSAL should not contain any extra subs/methods beyond those # that it exists to define. The use of Exporter below is a historical # accident that can't be fixed without breaking code.  Note that we # *don't* set @ISA here, don't want all classes/objects inheriting from # Exporter.  It's bad enough that all classes have a import() method # whenever UNIV
06:34 Alias oh for fucks sake
06:35 marcus_ 68153  perl5.10.1   0.0  00:00.25 1    0    17    84     12M    264K   14M    17M    2388M  68153 67980 sleeping 501  4021       61
06:35 Alias What REALLY sucks is that it's not benign
06:36 Alias If the module you call ->import on doesn't have a $VERSION, then Exporter makes noise
06:36 marcus_ that's mojolicious::lite hello world. 12 mb res
06:36 Alias Shit, gotta run
06:36 Alias later
06:36 marcus_ later
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07:40 Rhaen hm, I don't like sqlite.
07:40 Rhaen working with timestamps is a pain (or I just don't get it)
07:46 Rhaen ah, wait - there is a format error. Holy!
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08:41 vti Rhaen: it is all your fault!
08:47 Rhaen yes. However, here is something I learned:
08:48 Rhaen convert all your times into epoch seconds and store them as INT
08:48 Rhaen use the power of perl to get everything you want out of dark
08:48 vti i always do this way
08:50 Rhaen hahaha ;)
09:01 gabb hm, local devbox and dev server up and running, time to install mojo and give it a drive :)
09:02 * gabb puts sri's and marcus' number on speeddial for panic calls
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09:09 marcus_ :D
09:10 marcus_ o/' let's pretend we don't exist / Let's pretend we're in antarctica o/'
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09:57 marcus_ sri: seems like it would be fairly easy to use Test::Mojo to test a catalyst web app?
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10:30 Rhaen hm.
10:31 Rhaen I wonder if it's a good idea to make Mojolicious a dependency to catalyst in order to run tests :)
10:37 marcus_ Rhaen: not for testing catalyst core.
10:37 marcus_ for testing a given Catalyst app
10:37 marcus_ We already have Mojo in our dependency chain because of the Client
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10:42 Rhaen that catalyst guys do have mojo in the chain. Wow.
10:44 marcus_ Rhaen: why not? It's better than LWP.
10:44 marcus_ and has less deps.
10:45 marcus_ and it's a hella lot easier to install than Test::Catalyst::WWW::Mechanize
10:52 gabb mojolicious installation is hella sweet after reminiscing how it used to be with catalyst on a fresh box
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11:02 marcus_ indeed
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11:10 gabb beside mojolicious, do any other modules appear to be must-haves for actual coding/development?
11:10 gabb like the DefaultHelpers?
11:11 marcus_ I like TT, so I use the TT Renderer
11:13 gabb ye, I think I will stick with TT as well, EP looks nice, but I am just too used to TT by now
11:13 gabb dbix still the model de-facto standard?
11:15 kvorg gabb: you do remember that you can override the ep syntax if something else feels more at home?
11:16 kvorg i fondly remember sri's braces experiments
11:17 marcus_ kvorg: his stars experiment is in the test suite
11:18 marcus_ t/mojolicious/twinkle_lite_app.t
11:18 gabb ye, but making ep behave like tt seems a bit weird when I can simply use tt - beside I got plenty of tt templates from old projects that may end up being reused here and there and would just like them to work oob
11:19 kvorg that sounds like the superb use case for going with the tt renderer then
11:28 marcus_ I've been considering switching to Template::Alloy.
11:28 gabb tangible benefits?
11:30 marcus_ performance, less wtfishness, TT3 features
11:32 gabb hm, dunno about performance - if its 5-6% faster than TT you need to consider that grown-up apps usually tend to waste their time building models, sanitizing data etc - so the actual rendering takes very little time so whatever alloy is faster, it would probably pale in comparison to your overall runtime
11:32 gabb less wtfishness however would be welcome
11:33 marcus_ mmm
11:39 gabb did mojo cut down on the scripts?
11:39 gabb I figured out mojo generate app <appname>, but kinda miss the scripts that generated controller and view stubs, is that gone?
11:40 gabb guess I am still stuck in mvc land
11:44 marcus_ there's no view or model stubs
11:44 marcus_ you just use the renderer
11:44 marcus_ and controllers are pretty much plain perl classes.
11:45 marcus_ you just need to set the base class.
11:46 gabb I see - it still lacks a Tutorial.pod, but I guess those information are spread across the web right now in form of perlmonk posts etc
11:46 marcus_ there's guides
11:46 gabb I read the Routing and Rendering one, any others?
11:46 marcus_ cookbook, but it's mostly for deployment. http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojolicious-0​.999929/lib/Mojolicious/Guides/Cookbook.pod
11:47 gabb ye, saw that too
11:47 marcus_ and I wrote a testing one - http://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Testing
11:47 gabb What it needs - I think - are two examples, one simple app, one larger app - to show where and when a developer needs to make decisions and where mojo is opinionated
11:47 marcus_ sri has a guide in progress.
11:48 marcus_ Called 'Growing'
11:48 gabb cool
11:48 gabb ah, I guess from ::lite to bigboyapp
11:48 marcus_ mmm
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13:00 sri hai
13:01 sri Alias: as a european i prety much *need* unicode always
13:02 sri *+t
13:03 vel joined #mojo
13:03 vti sri: aren't you from china?
13:03 sri Alias: of course i make mistakes, but usually just once ;)
13:04 sri ni hao!
13:04 sri all evil robots are made in china?
13:04 sri bender is made in mexico
13:05 sri Alias: if there's a better way to handle encoding i'm all ears
13:06 sri but in the end i do think defaulting to unicode is the right thing to do
13:07 vel left #mojo
13:10 sri mutilated perl is not a sensible target
13:11 sri android seems to not even include the utf8 module
13:11 sri sounds completely broken to me
13:13 sri Alias: it's like you are blaming us for their bad packaging practices
13:14 sri is it because we listen and they don't?
13:17 sri gabb: yea, growing is exactly that :)
13:21 Rhaen sri: btw. the wiki is growing - slowly. We are making nice progress there
13:21 perlrocks Twitter: "So #android #perl is missing the Encode and utf8 modules, does that mean #mojolicious should not default to unicode?" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/26455551743
13:22 sri Rhaen: awesome
13:24 sri actually we would have to disable whole modules for android, like json, which is unicode by spec
13:24 sri i don't see how one could build a sensible web framework without Encode
13:24 sri so much to disable
13:26 sri Alias: does android perl do chars at all? or just bytes?
13:26 marcus_ sri: nordaaker.com/docs/Mojo_as_a_client.key
13:26 sri Alias: how could you ever output perl chars?
13:27 marcus_ sri: btw, it would be nice if I could do perl -Mojo -e'h("url")' to do a HEAD request :)
13:27 marcus_ I often do that to check if a resource exists
13:27 sri you can't?
13:27 marcus_ (with curl -I)
13:28 sri i consider that a bug :)
13:28 marcus_ sri: no, there's no h() option
13:28 marcus_ method even
13:31 sri marcus_: slides look good
13:35 marcus_ sri: thanks
13:36 * vti can't look at slides :(
13:37 marcus_ vti: I thought you had a mac?
13:37 sri marcus_: btw. why not use your pretty nordaaker template?
13:38 marcus_ sri: I did have it installed here, and I kind of wanted something minimal
13:38 marcus_ vti: exported to pdf now. nordaaker.com/docs/Mojo_as_a_client.pdf
13:38 vti marcus_: i don't have keynote
13:38 vti marcus_: thanks :)
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13:41 gabb lol @ got booted
13:41 vti marcus_: after looking at the slide, i really want to use mojo
13:41 vti where can i get it?
13:41 marcus_ vti: last slide
13:42 vti oh, looks like i am on this channel :)
13:42 marcus_ hmm, maybe add a cpanminus install slide after the easy install bit
13:42 sri vti is too impatient for the last slide
13:42 marcus_ bootstrapping
13:43 marcus_ curl -L cpanmin.us |
13:43 marcus_ sudo perl - Mojolicious
13:45 gabb like the oneliners
13:49 perlrocks Twitter: "#android #perl seems pretty ignorant towards non english languages, i'm not sure that should be encouraged. #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/26457848475
13:51 sri ironically it even ships with I18N::LangTags
13:53 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: #android #perl seems pretty ignorant towards non english languages, i'm not sure that should be encouraged. #mojolicious" --rainboxx http://twitter.com/rainboxx/status/26458166168
13:54 perlrocks Twitter: "Ironically #android #perl ships with I18N::LangTags::Detect. :) #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/26458252608
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14:21 gabb what was the ENV for debug mode? MOJO_CLIENT_DEBUG ?
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14:33 perlrocks Twitter: "RT: @kraih: #android #perl seems pretty ignorant towards non english languages, i'm not sure that should be encouraged. #mojolicious" --sharifulin http://twitter.com/sharifulin/status/26461653930
14:35 und3f[A] is now known as und3f
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14:46 sri gabb: which debug mode?
14:46 sri the normal debug mode is activated by default
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15:21 gabb ah ok sri - is it as verbose as catalysts? i.e. do I see all requests, the dispatchers etc?
15:21 sri nope, you do see requests though
15:21 sri we load controllers on demand dynamically
15:21 sri you can get a list of all routes though
15:22 sri with "./myapp.pl routes"
15:22 gabb gabb@devbox:~/code/rawmode$ MOJO_RELOAD=1 script/rawmode daemon
15:22 gabb is this the recommended way of starting it ?
15:22 sri everything is a little more dynamic
15:22 sri using latest github version?
15:22 gabb using whatever cpan gave me :>
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15:23 sri ok, it's on cpan too... ./script/rawmode daemon --reload
15:23 sri env vars are rarely required
15:24 sri i would suggest using the github version though, it is much better
15:24 gabb k
15:25 gabb do the cool kids still use vanilla git? or is there already gvk or something? :P
15:27 sri vanilla git for life!
15:27 sri gitx is a nice browser though
15:28 vti i like tig
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15:31 gabb git clone git://github.com/kraih/mojo.git is the one, right?
15:32 sri ye
15:32 sri you could also fork it first into your account :)
15:33 sri that helps with our fork count
15:33 gabb ah, you mean basically remote cloning? its a github thingie, no?
15:34 gabb but ye, can do
15:34 sri we are the second most forked perl project on github after rakudo perl6 :D
15:34 sri and the 4th most watched
15:35 sri github is totally worth joining
15:35 su-bzero_ left #mojo
15:35 sri the social coding experience is great
15:36 sri http://github.com/languages/Perl
15:36 gabb someone STOLE "gabb" :/
15:36 sri aww
15:37 gabb "gabbs" forked it ;(
15:38 gabb do forks keep somehow synced? or should I clone straight from you anyway?
15:38 sri you rebase them from time to time
15:39 sri no auto sync
15:40 sri when you want to submit a patch in the git universe you create a branch in your forked repo, add changes, and send a pull request via github to your branch
15:40 sri i can then add your branch as a remote to mine and merge in changes easily :)
15:40 sri it's quite good once you get used to it
15:41 gabb sounds rather nice for projects where you can departmentalize aspects of your project and have "specialists" work their magic on parts of the big solution
15:42 sri and it only gets better from there
15:42 gabb also makes trac apparently useless
15:42 sri didn't touch trac in years
15:43 vti trac sucks
15:43 gabb last time I did was because I wanted to write a better pmtool in catalyst before academia sucked me into her unforgiving vortex of tears and misery
15:44 sri you can even rewrite history in git
15:44 sri merge multiple small changes into a big one before submitting a pull request
15:44 sri no need for other people to see your mistakes
15:44 gabb lol :D
15:45 Rhaen yeah, good that sri mentions it!
15:45 Rhaen if you fork the github repo always use "rebase" for the upstream changes and layer
15:45 Rhaen your changes on top of it.
15:45 Rhaen Otherwise you will collect a bunch of commits just for following the upstream source
15:45 Rhaen which is kraih/mojo
15:46 Rhaen that's because the kraih/mojo branch will change more often than yours.
15:46 Rhaen Something I learned the hard way.
15:47 Rhaen sri denied every pull request, oh wait - he accepted everything but changed it afterwards with another commit
15:47 Rhaen this will make you to mister merge master if you don't follow the rebase path
15:47 Rhaen and you'll meet the dark side.
15:47 Rhaen sri: ha :) this might be a useful information for a wiki page :)
15:48 sri indeed
15:48 sri or even for the FAQ
15:48 sri how to get involved
15:48 Rhaen I'll write a wiki page right now.
15:48 sri Rhaen++
15:49 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious is now the 2nd most forked #perl project on github, you guys rock! :) http://github.com/languages/Perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/26468255098
15:51 Rhaen really?
15:51 Rhaen cool
15:52 sri ye, and perl is the 3rd biggest language on github
15:52 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: #mojolicious is now the 2nd most forked #perl project on github, you guys rock! :) http://github.com/languages/Perl" --rabenfeder http://twitter.com/rabenfeder/status/26468494738
15:54 perlrocks Twitter: "And #perl is still the 3rd biggest language on github! http://github.com/languages #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/26468644590
15:55 jest left #mojo
15:56 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: And #perl is still the 3rd biggest language on github! http://github.com/languages #mojolicious" --rabenfeder http://twitter.com/rabenfeder/status/26468789533
16:00 Rhaen sri: I would like to add a few "rules" to the contribution section of the wiki
16:00 sri like?
16:01 Rhaen sri: for example, that the new documation/pages have to be written in POD for easier offline reading
16:02 sri hmm, dunno
16:02 sri would hate for good stuff to be removed just because it was in the wrong format
16:02 Rhaen nothing too fancy, (can't imagine more rules right now) - just to have _ONE_ documentation style and not like: textile, markdown, pod, plain text, pm, md - etc.
16:02 Rhaen right now everything is in the correct format
16:02 sri maybe make it a liberal rule, like pod is preferred format
16:02 Rhaen except a few pages like the intro page (but I will convert it into pod, too)
16:03 Rhaen k,.
16:03 sri "other formats might get coverted"
16:03 Rhaen k, let's have a start and correct it then :) Let's see how it will work :)
16:03 sri :)
16:10 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: #mojolicious is now the 2nd most forked #perl project on github, you guys rock! :) http://github.com/languages/Perl" --insurgentsoft http://twitter.com/insurge​ntsoft/status/26469998682
16:10 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: And #perl is still the 3rd biggest language on github! http://github.com/languages #mojolicious" --insurgentsoft http://twitter.com/insurge​ntsoft/status/26470010115
16:11 zakame woot
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16:22 xantus morn
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16:29 GitHub113 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7c3cf44 (3 files in 3 dirs): added automatic relaxed parsing support - http://bit.ly/c0Eb5D
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16:29 xantus I noticed that there's a short form header for Transfer-Encoding
16:29 xantus TE
16:29 sri this allows Mojo::Client to automatically deal with http://last.fm
16:31 xantus cool
16:32 xantus sri: I started the dav plugin last night
16:32 xantus litmus provides a full test suite for dav compliance
16:32 sri cool
16:34 Rhaen http://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Fork-on-github
16:34 Rhaen just as a small suggestion on how to work with github (at least this is my way and it works for me)
16:34 Rhaen feel free to add stuff or correct it :)
16:35 Rhaen I'll write the doc/pod section at home.
16:35 Rhaen cya late :)
16:35 xantus \o/
16:35 sri Rhaen: that should turn out to be very very useful i guess
16:35 sri especially the command list
16:35 xantus OH
16:36 Rhaen I am not sure about it. However, I struggled around with git the first time.
16:36 xantus I have a project started that will use the cloud9 editor + mojo
16:36 Rhaen it's so easy but you need a basic understanding and - a small workflow.
16:36 sri what was cloud9 again?
16:36 Rhaen anyway - cya later
16:36 sri laters
16:37 xantus on the web editor
16:37 xantus coded ide
16:37 xantus er, code ide
16:37 sri oh
16:37 xantus uses dav ;)
16:37 sri http://www.cloud9ide.com/
16:37 xantus yeah
16:38 xantus I'll link the log into the console, etc
16:38 sri looks neat actually
16:39 xantus the code is quite good
16:39 xantus readable unlike bespin/skywriter
16:39 sri maybe too much ide stuff
16:40 sri sidebar and main editor window look very much like textmate :)
16:41 sri hmm, textmate in the cloud, that would be a killer app
16:42 sri "Cloud9 IDE is a Ajax.org Company"
16:42 sri Oo
16:43 sri has every snippet of javascript a company behind it?
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16:50 xantus heh
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17:07 GitHub101 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * b06aafc (5 files in 4 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/9QaR2L
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17:08 sri i actually used broken http messages in some tests -.-
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17:09 sri they simply timed out, good to know
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17:31 GitHub69 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * f99c60d (3 files in 3 dirs): made http request parsing strict again - http://bit.ly/c6lii1
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17:32 sri we are close to 4000 tests
17:33 kvorg wow
17:34 kvorg yet the test run does not take too long
17:34 sri yay perl -Ilib -Mojo -e 'g("hackerne.ws")' now works out of the box too
17:34 kvorg perhaps you should write a benchmark based on tests - sadly that would break every time you add a new test
17:34 sri hackernews is broken too
17:35 sri not too keen on that kind of benchmark
17:35 sri it encourages the wrong decisions
17:36 sri the highest goal has to be getting things done as quick as possible
17:36 sri not saving cpu cycles
17:36 kvorg was meant as a joke ... since a benchmark has to be stable and mimic real world situations, while the test evolve with or before the application, and are full of corner cases
17:37 sri never forget the irony tags!
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19:10 vti !tweet #Mojolicious rocks!
19:10 perlrocks vti: http://twitter.com/perlrocks/status/26482675693
19:10 perlrocks Twitter: "#Mojolicious rocks! --vti" --perlrocks http://twitter.com/perlrocks/status/26482675693
19:11 sri !tweet @vtivti blog it!
19:11 perlrocks sri: http://twitter.com/perlrocks/status/26482709731
19:12 vti you got me, i'll to blog something tomorrow
19:13 sri \o/
19:19 vti ask was fast this time
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19:22 * vti is finally reading pbp
19:27 dotan vti: pbp? Perl Best Practices?
19:27 vti dotan: ye
19:33 vti after all these years it's about time :D
19:41 dotan now that it's practically obsolete ;-)
19:42 dotan I remember Damian had several modules there that he recommended, and when I looked them up in CPAN, it turned out he hadn't written them yet :P
19:43 vti well, i am reading a lot these, just find some book and read, i don't know why, maybe because i got an ipad :D
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19:43 vti *these days
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19:50 vti Rhaen: underscore-man!
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20:39 marcus_ GI MEG DET JEG VIL HA
20:39 Rhaen marcus_: aha.
20:39 Rhaen Rhaen: uhm, yes.
20:40 Rhaen next part of the wiki documentation is ready.
20:40 Rhaen cool.
20:41 Rhaen it would be so cool if the wiki pages could be edited using git push.
20:55 marcus_ agree
20:55 marcus_ does sri need to give us perms for that to work?
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20:56 Rhaen no, you can edit right away
20:56 marcus_ I mean the git push bit
20:56 marcus_ when I want to clone it, it says it's read only
20:56 Rhaen if you use the kraih/mojo tree and the webgui
20:57 Rhaen oh yes. You need write access to the wiki. Inside the faq they mention that it follows the access rights of the project
20:57 Rhaen which means write access to kraih/mojo as far as I understand
20:59 Rhaen haha, we can use git format-patch to annoy the hell of sri :)
20:59 vti marcus_: you have to be as cool as i am
21:00 Rhaen oh, we can send you the patches, too :)
21:00 vti hey, guys for 30 buck a month i can push your patches :D
21:00 Rhaen marcus_: but agreed, that's annoying, it should follow the same rules as the src project
21:01 Rhaen marcus_: so pull requests should be allowed, push for different people than the src would be even better
21:06 marcus_ actually, I think as long as the wiki is read-write for everyone, everyone should be able to push
21:07 Rhaen uhm, yes.
21:07 Rhaen ok. time for a blog post about the wiki things
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21:35 sri hmm
21:35 sri i can give you write access to the wiki?
21:39 vti sri: don't do that, they're evil
21:39 sri i know, but they are our evil
21:41 vti our? that's something new :)
21:42 sri Rhaen: added you, please try committing to the wiki
21:43 sri please don't screw up the main repo :S
21:43 sri marcus_: you're added too
21:44 * vti feels bad :D
21:45 * sri hugs vti
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21:48 vti sri: i kind of like it :D
21:49 Rhaen sri, awesome - I'll try
21:52 Rhaen *bows*
21:52 Rhaen no, I will stick inside the wiki, of course
21:53 Rhaen actually it's more fun to annoy you with pull requests :)
21:53 sri ;p
21:53 Rhaen ok, it works - just corrected a typo.
21:53 vti annoying!
21:54 Rhaen ok, anyway - it's bedtime for me. Thanks for the trust.
21:54 Rhaen Cya later, guys
21:54 sri nn
22:04 vti sri: have you tried little snitch?
22:07 sri vti: nope
22:07 vti looks good so far
22:08 vti it's like a personal firewall from outgoing connecitions
22:08 sri i usually don't use programsi don't trust
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22:18 vti sri: how can you trust non open source programs?
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22:19 sri how can you trust os x?
22:19 sri how can you trust little snitch? :D
22:19 vti well... :)
22:19 vti ok :)
22:26 vti sri: actually i don't trust osx at all, i use truedtrypt and virtualbox ;p
22:26 sri lol
22:28 vti i'd like to use ubuntu if it was good enough, i had f*cking problems with macos when i was in kaliningrad
22:29 vti i couldn't connect to the bluetooth modem, that really sucked, untill i found mac os store
22:29 sri doesn't ubuntu run great on the macbook?
22:31 sri well, i love os x, couldn't go back to an ugly os again :(
22:31 vti ugly os... this is the same i feel :)
22:32 sri xD
22:32 sri well, i've switched *really*
22:32 sri using textmate and stuff
22:32 vti sri: i have a picture for you
22:33 vti ok, safari just freezed
22:34 sri lol
22:34 sri thats what you get for installing little snitch ;p
22:34 sri os x hates you now
22:35 vti ok ) the message was: apple store, buy everything :p
22:35 vti sri: have you got an ipad?
22:35 sri nope
22:35 sri macbook and iphone
22:35 vti it really suck, but i like it :)
22:35 vti *+s
22:36 vti i want to buy an iphone for my gf, not sure yet
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22:37 sri you'll want one too then
22:38 vti i like phone that just ring :)
22:38 vti *_s
22:38 sri you say that now
22:38 vti i had SE with camera and all that stuff, didn't like it
22:39 sri it's a whole different world
22:39 sri everywhere internet
22:41 vti my gf's phone is my phone ;)
22:41 sri makes you realize that for the next generation the internet will just be there
22:42 vti i think that it's not popular enough
22:42 vti with android thing
22:43 sri android has huge problems
22:43 vti lots of people just buy symbian
22:43 sri but ultimately it won't matter once phones are just browsers
22:44 vti sri: is it good? i mean for browsing
22:44 vti i use ipad and it really rocks for browsing and reading
22:45 sri it's ok, by far not as good as the ipad though
22:45 sri simply because of size
22:48 vti sri: have you jail breaked? i wonder if i should do something like that
22:50 vti apple is very strange
22:50 vti i'd like to use their stuff, but it's too dangerous :D
22:59 vti nn
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