Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-10-10

| Channels | #mojo index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary

All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:48 GabrielVieira2 left #mojo
02:03 vti sri: how about a hook that is run after dispatch, for example i want to save my response to the file
02:03 * sri slaps vti
02:04 vti oO
02:04 sri it's called after_dispatch
02:05 sri you should know -.-
02:06 vti sri: thanks :)
02:35 janus left #mojo
02:36 janus joined #mojo
03:29 alnewkirk joined #mojo
04:04 tl joined #mojo
04:06 tholen42 left #mojo
04:33 perlrocks left #mojo
05:22 zakame left #mojo
05:22 zakame joined #mojo
06:07 marcus_ good morning sunshines
06:07 sri HAI
06:08 * marcus_ fell asleep around 20.00 yesterday
06:08 sri you're really getting old
06:08 marcus_ while putting eva to bed.
06:08 marcus_ I was drinking until 3am on friday
06:08 marcus_ I think that's the explanation
06:09 sri if you were younger that wouldn't be a problem
06:09 marcus_ If I didn't have kids, I would have gotten up at 08:00 yesterday morning
06:09 marcus_ I would not have even
06:09 polvo a question: i'm going to use Module::Pluggable. What is the right place to initiate it from? i want it's methods to be accessible from all controllers.
06:09 marcus_ sri: why is markup.io cool, exactly?
06:10 sri fun to use
06:10 sri not saying it's useful
06:11 sri skitch is still a better tool for the job
06:11 marcus_ mm :)
06:11 marcus_ slide to publish is going to get them sued by apple :D
06:12 sri lol
06:12 sri slide to publish is rather stupid, but i like the slider widget
06:18 sri damn, it's cold outside
06:20 marcus_ I've lit the fireplace
06:22 sri cozy
06:31 marcus_ yepp
07:46 gabb you feel cold? another sign of getting old :P
08:26 gabb any css/js expert here? ;S
08:35 Rhaen hep.
08:35 Rhaen morning
08:36 gabb mornin
09:07 GabrielVieira2 joined #mojo
09:08 kvorg left #mojo
09:08 zamolxes hey. i'm trying to make a http request with a cookie, not quite sure how to do that, i got the cookie jar, what do I pass to ->add ?a  Mojo::Cookie?
09:17 zamolxes worked
09:18 Rhaen :) what worked?
09:18 zamolxes $client->cookie_jar->add(Mojo::Cooki​e::Response->new(domain=>'foo.com', name=>'wutwut', value=>'but')); $client->get('foo.com/wutwut'); #works
09:18 Rhaen ah :) I know that URL, they do funny stuff
09:18 Rhaen :)
09:23 Rhaen it's good to see some examples what people are doing with mojo
09:23 Rhaen and what work for them as we don't have too many examples right now
10:03 spleenjack joined #mojo
10:10 y0j joined #mojo
10:19 dotan joined #mojo
10:23 gabb anyone with a mac browser who could test a design for me?
10:47 dotan this channel was a regular mac-lovers assembly a while back. Guess that like every interesting question on this channel, it'll have to wait for sri or vti.
10:47 gabb lol, ye
10:48 gabb I should probably just install a x86 osx in a vm and test myself, but :effort:
10:49 gabb getting into mojo is rather tedious I noticed, may be due to being rusty myself as I havent touched webdev in a year or so, but the lack of guides makes the learning curve steep
10:52 marcus_ gabb: I live in Norway. The cold is not just a feeling.
10:53 gabb lol, true - its sunny and warm-ish here, so I forgot about that
10:55 marcus_ we expect sunny and 0 degrees in the morning tomorrow.
10:55 marcus_ -1 on tuesday.
10:55 gabb jeez
10:56 gabb I hope this winter wont be as harsh as last years
10:56 gabb walking in the morning to work at -20��C was no fun
10:58 marcus_ gabb: I blame global warming.
10:59 gabb lolwut? Its global WARMING, so it should be warmer, no??? </tea-party-logic>
11:00 gabb the movie Idiocracy feels every day more and more like a prognosis/documentary rather than the comedy movie it was supposed to be
11:00 marcus_ gabb: the tea party doesn't belive in global warming.
11:00 marcus_ http://www.alan.com/2010/02/17/palin-global-war​ming-is-junk-science-tea-party-movement-grand/
11:02 gabb I still wait for Palin to pull out a trollface-mask one day during a ralley and announce "U got trolled"
11:03 marcus_ :D
11:03 gabb which would make Palin the queen of 4chan or so
11:08 alnewkirk left #mojo
11:08 alnewkirk|com joined #mojo
11:08 alnewkirk|com is now known as alnewkirk
11:13 vti marcus_ has a mac too
11:22 gabb can either one of you open a link in safari for me and tell me if it breaks horribly?
11:23 gabb http://85.180.142.233:3000
11:23 gabb 1) does anything look out of place?
11:23 gabb 2) does the nav menu work? smoothly?
11:23 gabb 3) do you see fragments / blinks of the background when navigating?
11:24 marcus_ gabb: I'd be interested in hearing what kind of trouble you have with learning mojo
11:24 gabb im probably not a good case to generalize from, but I can try to sum it up I guess
11:25 marcus_ http://nordaaker.com/docs/skitch/Danije​l.de___Journal_and_Project_Portfolio_of​_Danijel_Milicevic-20101010-132458.png
11:25 gabb all looks in place, cheers
11:26 gabb as for the "problems" I encountered:
11:27 gabb 1) too few and too simple examples - especially Mojolicious::Lite examples are not very useful when starting from scratch with Mojolicious
11:27 gabb people don't necessarily learn like that - read a pod and apply it, at least not the majority
11:27 gabb think about guitar playing
11:28 gabb maybe 5% can read sheet music
11:28 gabb 95% use tabs, which are just patterns you copy/re-use
11:28 gabb in catalyst the learning process was more like guitar tabs - alot of examples with varying difficulty - people used the examples and adapted them for their needs, what they couldn't figure out they asked on the mailing list or on irc
11:29 november joined #mojo
11:29 gabb mojo for me is more like sheet music - its nice to dive here and there into some depths, but I am missing quickwins
11:30 gabb same with "its model agnostic" - thats cool, but what is a "good" way to make it play with dbix / moose / whatever
11:30 gabb from the questions I saw here in the channel I get the feeling that many new users also try to figure out exactly those questions
11:31 november hey, where is the difference between $self->stash('bar') and $self->param('bar') if i use Mojolicious::Lite?
11:33 gabb well, they have different purposes I'd say
11:34 gabb both get populated with placeholder captures, but in stash you usually throw in all the other information you'd want, like timestamps you generate in your action etc, while I'd steer clear of params for that
11:34 gabb macht das sinn?
11:34 * gabb eyed the mediaways.net host
11:35 gabb then again I was just a minute ago explaining how I don't get mojo yet, so I may not be the best person to try to answer that
11:35 gabb but I recall you asking last night and not getting an answer, so thats at least an attempt :P
11:35 november jepp, danke;)
11:36 gabb np
11:41 alnewkirk left #mojo
11:46 november mh maybe i should read something more about mvc's before i realy get started with mojo, i feel like i dont have a good enough overview of the whole mojo/mvc/controller/action principle (i never worked with catalyst etc.) there is no real introduction for specialy mojo yet, right?
11:51 gabb not something as general as you are looking for I think
11:51 gabb maybe take a look at catalyst basic tutorials, understand basic concepts and then come back to mojo :P
11:56 november year think i have to try this. okay thanks for your help, i think ill print out some doc, enjoy the sun, and come back later :)
11:57 spleenjack left #mojo
12:03 meraxes left #mojo
12:03 marcus_ sick
12:03 marcus_ sri: just saw your xml parser tweet
12:03 und3f[A] is now known as und3f
12:10 november left #mojo
12:17 and joined #mojo
12:19 and left #mojo
12:21 dotan left #mojo
12:35 dotan joined #mojo
12:41 and joined #mojo
12:45 dotan left #mojo
12:53 dotan joined #mojo
13:04 achromic left #mojo
14:11 al left #mojo
14:12 al joined #mojo
15:57 kvorg joined #mojo
16:01 marcus_ vti: your blog sucks.
16:02 marcus_ now it has reset all the timestamps again.
16:11 GabrielVieira2 left #mojo
16:28 dotan left #mojo
16:41 achromic joined #mojo
16:50 GabrielVieira2 joined #mojo
16:55 Rhaen hm, I am just structuring my article for a magazine about mojo
16:55 Rhaen and right now I am thinking of a way to start
16:56 Rhaen I thought about: Mojo, some client examples, Mojolicious as the framework, Mojolicious::Lite for a sample application
16:56 Rhaen what do you think?
16:59 Rhaen ah, I need to focus!
16:59 Rhaen I will play a small round sc2
17:06 marcus_ gabb: interesting feedback about the docs. need moar examples matches sri's plans well, I'd say.
17:08 kvorg Rhaen: It is really just a stub, but perhaps you can use something from http://github.com/kvorg/mojo-handbook
17:08 kvorg i was attempting to get some beginner-tunned documentation, with more expalnations and generalia there
17:09 kvorg it kinda stalled - not much input - and it was created at the time before the Guides really existed.
17:15 Rhaen ui!
17:15 Rhaen can we merge the infos in the wiki?
17:16 Rhaen what we need is really beginner infos
17:17 gabb wtf, outlook cant handle cram-md5 authentication /o\
17:17 and left #mojo
17:18 Rhaen kvorg: that's a awesome piece of work!
17:18 Rhaen kvorg: really, it's great
17:18 Rhaen brb
17:37 tempire sri:  I want to personally dedicate an Izze to you for refusing to implement ->forward in mojolicious.
17:37 tempire It is of the devil.
18:09 kvorg Rhaen: there is an upcoming new version, essentially much more stuff from irc and other sources, not processed in the actual text yet.
18:10 kvorg there is quite a lot of that in the online version, so you are missing it if you only looked at the processed pod.
18:12 kvorg incidentally, in my subjective parsing of the irc, the question how to make logs go to a file or STDERR are all time most frequent, the second place being "how do I enable the sessions" in the spring, "where/how/why do i set MIME" in the summer and now "where do I connect to my model" in the fall.
18:13 Rhaen kvorg: well, as you know I started something like this myself
18:13 Rhaen kvorg: and I decided to put the full documentation of it into the wiki
18:13 kvorg that is why i am pointing this out to you
18:13 Rhaen you did a wonderful work so far!
18:13 Rhaen I am scanning the irc and the ML for documentation stuff :)
18:13 kvorg if you look at my licence, you can take anything and put it in the wiki, since it goes to Mojolicious, and it will take sri's licence.
18:14 Rhaen yup. saw that :)
18:14 Rhaen what we need is a basic all purpose beginner instruction manual which will explain the concepts and the basics
18:14 kvorg but if you commit something on my side, there is nothing to stop me if i want to publish in some other way, prolly a free on-line booklet and a chapter in a non-free perl books for human language technology students.
18:14 Rhaen I still not sure about everything
18:15 Rhaen sure :) Well, why not :)
18:15 kvorg there is too much stuff in the handbook, and too much missing right now
18:15 Rhaen I think it would be fair to have a least a mention :)
18:16 kvorg but the idea was to have something you can read to understand the concepts and so on, while you use the guides and reference pods afterwards-.
18:16 Rhaen awesome! That's right, that's what we need :)
18:18 kvorg i am not following there: what did you mean with I still not sure about everything?
18:18 Rhaen ah, k. I meant - I am not sure how everything inside Mojo fits together
18:18 Rhaen we have the basic layer - mojo
18:19 Rhaen on top is Mojolicious which glues everything together
18:19 kvorg ah, and Rhaen, I am seriously considering making a bunch of tests for the handbook, so that I can be sure that the examples actually work, and so that assumptions talked about in the text are tested and i get to know when things change
18:19 Rhaen and we have Mojolicious::Lite which is the web framework which uses - well, everything
18:19 Rhaen is that the right way to explain Mojolicious?
18:20 kvorg well, at the end of the text you have a lengthy piece of mumbo-jumbo, created when I went throuht the whole code to piece the general idea together, and at the start, an executive summary of the same
18:21 Rhaen haha, let's write everything in JSON then :)
18:21 kvorg hmmm. Mojolicious::Lite is just a syntactic binding and additional functionality to use Mojolicious the framework with microframework syntax. Look at the file: it 'just' gives you handy shortcuts of the kind get '/' => 'index'.
18:21 Rhaen so we can use the rendering sysrem to put everything together
18:23 kvorg Behind the scenes, Mojolicious::Lite still uses Mojolicious which uses the Mojox::Route::* and the Mojo http server/client and all the other basic componnents. That is also why you can mix and match the concepts between the two.
18:23 Rhaen well said!
18:25 kvorg if is quite fascinating, if you look at the actual code of Mojolicious::Lite: essential, sri uses base 'Mojolicious' and has one method (import) which does all the syntactic and set-up sugar/magic. Quite fascinating. Well, an there is the lite app generator, of course.
18:26 kvorg If nothing else, it is a nice testament to the flexibility of Mojolicious, and the fact that he was able to do so and that the distro bring both the microframework and the real framework is not really sufficiently appreciated.
18:28 kvorg Well, enough of chatter ... if you manage to read any of that stuff, I will be happy for any corrections and contributions. We can sure help each-other and the doc for the less enlightened project.
18:28 * kvorg pushes new version.
18:32 * kvorg admits to only pushing it now.
18:51 polvo left #mojo
19:01 xantus joined #mojo
19:01 xantus hey hey
19:02 xantus mojo-plugin-webdav is coming along...it passes the basic and copymove litmus tests
19:02 xantus working on props now
19:03 xantus http://github.com/xantus/mojo-plugin-webdav
19:09 Htbaa joined #mojo
19:26 al left #mojo
19:26 al joined #mojo
19:28 chansen sri: when will we see assembly version of mojo? ;p
19:29 xantus heh
19:29 xantus right after the node.js version ;P
19:29 zakame left #mojo
19:40 marcus_ xantus: sweet
19:41 marcus_ xantus: does it work with finder yet? ;)
19:43 rhaen_ joined #mojo
19:48 Rhaen left #mojo
19:48 rhaen_ is now known as Rhaen
20:00 zakame joined #mojo
20:05 xantus not yet, once I do props, it should
20:09 achromic left #mojo
20:10 kvorg xantus: nice. but since the implementation is fully Mojolicious dependent, perhaps you could just move everything in the Mojolicious::Plugin namespace? But ignore me, I am probably missing something.
20:13 chansen kvorg: http://search.cpan.org/dist/HTTP-DAVServer/
20:14 achromic joined #mojo
20:15 sri xantus_: looks good, but the namespace seems wrong
20:15 chansen kvorg: nm me, I misread your message
20:16 sri MojoX::WebDav or Mojolicious::Plugin::WebDav might be more apropriate
20:17 zakame left #mojo
20:18 zakame joined #mojo
20:27 zakame left #mojo
20:27 perlite left #mojo
20:27 perlite joined #mojo
20:28 xantus sri: actually it is MojoX::WebDav, the plugin is an empty shell that has 'use base ...'
20:29 xantus maybe I should rename the repo
20:31 achromic left #mojo
20:32 zakame joined #mojo
20:36 achromic joined #mojo
20:36 vti marcus_: you can always unsubscribe
20:47 kvorg xantus: inherits Mojolicious::Plugin, plugs into Mojolicious request, looks like Mojolicious::Plubin::WebDav to me :-)
20:48 kvorg but that is hardly relevant, it will be a great plugin to heave, especailly with all the file-based model apps around.
20:48 kthakore hallo
20:53 Htbaa left #mojo
20:58 ltriant joined #mojo
20:59 xantus its a work in progress
20:59 xantus if you want to have any say in how its done, patches welcome :)
21:00 chansen anyone experienced connection problems with magic mouse, I have two one frequently drops connection and the other one works flawlessly, anoying
21:01 chansen perhaps I should replace it with a magic trackpad
21:05 und3f is now known as und3f[A]
21:09 marcus_ vti: does that mean you don't plan to fix it?
21:09 marcus_ vti: it doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in your blog software...
21:12 vti marcus_: i am fixing it
21:33 marcus_ vti: then why would I unsubscribe? =)
21:38 sri hope apple adds tocuhscreens to all macs soon
21:38 hoelzro joined #mojo
21:39 sri would be very cool for those giant imacs
21:39 hoelzro ok, quick question/comment about routes: this may seem foolish, but I would think that the default name for a route would be taken from its pattern. Why is this not the way it is?
21:40 sri hoelzro: because the pattern can be complicated
21:40 hoelzro to me, get 'good_idea/:id' => sub { ... } should have the name 'good_idea'
21:40 hoelzro sri: that's a good reason
21:40 hoelzro I'm just thinking about the pattern above
21:40 sri what about /:foo/:bar then?
21:41 hoelzro I would say that '/' is special, and that would default to 'index'
21:41 hoelzro but you're the web framework author, not me =)
21:41 sri but :foo and :bar are not otpional
21:41 hoelzro ok
21:41 sri so it is not the root
21:41 hoelzro ooo
21:41 hoelzro good point
21:42 sri we already allow "get '/foo' => sub {...} => '*'"
21:42 hoelzro well, maybe in situations like that, you force a name parameter?
21:42 sri that will auto generate the name
21:42 hoelzro I'm not sure, honestly!
21:42 hoelzro oh, really?
21:42 * hoelzro had not noticed that
21:43 hoelzro question: why not default to the '*' behavior?
21:45 hoelzro also, is there a way to print out the routes in the current application?
21:48 sri because it can backfire badly
21:48 sri get '/foo' => sub {...}; get '/' => sub {...} => 'foo';
21:49 sri now /foo might even contain special chars that make the conflict less obvious
21:49 sri "./myapp.pl routes" will list all
21:49 hoelzro sri: ah, thanks
21:50 hoelzro sri: re: the name conflicts, could you print the source line that generated the route that the current one is conflicting with?
21:50 sri routes are a tree
21:50 sri we would have to walk the whole tree to look for conflicts
21:51 hoelzro ah, that makes sense
21:51 sri we've been looking for a clean way for auto route names for quite some time :)
21:52 sri a foolproof implementation would be more than welcome
21:55 hoelzro sri: unfortunately, I can only provide my thoughts as a novice Mojolicious user
21:55 hoelzro but if I am suddenly stricken with divine inspiration, I'll let you know =)
21:58 sri :)
22:08 Rhaen bedtime.
22:08 Rhaen last round sc2
22:08 Rhaen good night everyone
22:18 sri nn
22:18 chansen sri: using touch on my imac 27 would give me a workout ;P
22:19 sri chansen: and that would be bad? :)
22:19 chansen yeah, I'm using a imac not a f**king wii ;P
22:21 chansen resizing images would require two hands, which hand should I use for the beer?
22:23 sri i'm already using a standing desk, think i would enjoy a big touchscreen
22:23 marcus_ sri: but what about the beer?
22:23 sri hmm
22:24 marcus_ I think chansen has a valid point
22:24 sri http://foodcourtlunch.com/wp-cont​ent/uploads/2007/09/beer-hat.jpg
22:24 sri ?
22:24 chansen hehe
22:24 marcus_ I can tell it will look dorky
22:24 marcus_ even before opening the page
22:24 marcus_ and I was right :)
22:25 marcus_ want to look like this? http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://lib.s​tore.yahoo.net/lib/eparty/beerhelmetcustomer.jpg​&amp;imgrefurl=http://www.poundy.com/2007/12/&am​p;h=403&amp;w=500&amp;sz=591&amp;tbnid=1g9SvUMzx​VMD0M:&amp;tbnh=105&amp;tbnw=130&amp;prev=/image​s%3Fq%3Dbeer%2Bhat&amp;zoom=1&amp;q=beer+hat&amp​;usg=__OzTGqYSPbWrhAXx9Ayru4PKwK5M=&amp;sa=X&amp​;ei=PT2yTICTN4KhOpPInMAF&amp;ved=0CCIQ9QEwBQ
22:25 chansen sri: convince Apple to ship one with every imac touch ;P
22:26 chansen marcus: hehe
22:26 sri beer + drinking straw is already a deadly sin :S
22:27 marcus_ agree
22:27 * marcus_ had snake dog ipa tonight
22:27 chansen sri: why do you stand when you can sit?
22:27 marcus_ he's weakly and need to build stamina
22:28 chansen heh, i thought it was a fetish of some kind ;P
22:28 sri Oo
22:29 marcus_ maybe it's both.
22:29 marcus_ :D
22:29 chansen ;P
22:29 sri after a month it actually makes you feel noticeably healthier
22:29 marcus_ grr, mysql is so slow at reading dumps.
22:30 marcus_ almost tempted to migrate this mojomojo to postgres right now
22:30 chansen sri: lol, you get healthier by exercising, not by standing up infront of a computer ;P
22:30 marcus_ 45 seconds for 6000 rows
22:30 sri exercising doesn't make sitting for hours in front of a computer any better ;p
22:33 chansen sri: are you delusional? I told you that snakepoison wasn't good in long term ;P
22:34 sri heh...only did that once...many years ago ;p
22:35 marcus_ I think I'll be better at this sysadmin crap tomorrow
22:35 marcus_ NN guys
22:35 chansen NN
22:35 sri nn
22:35 kvorg NN ... all
23:19 alnewkirk joined #mojo

| Channels | #mojo index | Today | | Search | Google Search | Plain-Text | summary