Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-10-22

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00:00 MojoGuest451 From: http://blog.kraih.com/ (3 hits)
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00:11 GitHub98 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 088333f (3 files in 3 dirs): cleaned up tag helpers - http://bit.ly/9VRJRl
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00:13 sri no idea what i was thinking adding helpers that are harder to type than the html they generate xD
00:13 tardisx rename them to 'hinders' :-)
00:14 sri :)
00:17 sri file_field is another candidate
00:17 sri it serves no real purpose
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00:40 sri but it at least looks good
00:41 sri guess it can stay
00:41 sri Zzz
00:48 perlrocks Twitter: "Seminar materials in-house "Git Fast" - a geek born in Tomakomai: gitYAPC that it would be before, id: perlcodesample There's a little edge, "Mojolicious hear talk of a" part and reckless ... http:// bit.ly/cqwFT2" (ja) --miha_bot http://twitter.com/miha_bot/status/28357622461
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02:26 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @ norry_gogo: @ koba04 Mojo, you mention it, I asked them to recommend me based on the occasion of the party is also easy to read! I indicated here Yusukebe's recommendations, tried the "Introduction to Modern Perl" I get to read! Aim for a beginner w de" (ja) --AE_PerlIsm http://twitter.com/AE_PerlIsm/status/28365448054
02:30 perlrocks Twitter: "RT! Norry_gogo:! Koba04 Mojo, you mention it, I asked them to recommend me based on the occasion of the party is also easy to read! I indicated here Yusukebe's recommendations, tried the "Introduction to Modern Perl" I get to read! Aim for a beginner w de" (ja) --perlism http://twitter.com/perlism/status/28365722264
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03:06 MojoGuest116 test
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08:00 vti_ sri: thanks a lot, now i have to fix all my templates
08:00 marcus \o/
08:01 marcus vti_: life with mojolicious is an adventure
08:02 vti_ marcus: :(
08:03 rhaen moins!
08:17 marcus were the helpers marked as 'experimental'?
08:22 marcus vti_:         - Added EXPERIMENTAL tag helpers to Mojolicious.
08:23 marcus guess that means you can't complain too much.
08:34 gizzlon is now known as GIZZLON
08:52 vti_ marcus: well, i've written them, and i proposed cdata too, but he cleaned up everything that we agreed upon, and added what he didn't want at that time :D
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11:32 sri vti_: wait....
11:32 sri vti_: you actually used label? :O
11:33 sri i was like 100% sure nobody would do that Oo
11:45 sri oh, google chrome for os x was silently updated to 7.0
11:45 sri now with proper draft 76 websocket support
11:48 sri hmm, chrome is pretty damn good now, think i'll switch from safari for a bit :)
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12:08 sri vti_: or was it the script -> javascript rename?
12:11 sri guess that change can be undone
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12:40 GitHub111 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 777048e (3 files in 3 dirs): added stylesheet tag helper - http://bit.ly/azhNoj
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12:47 sri thats what made me rename script to javascript
12:47 sri it's not about the tag, but about the result
12:47 sri like the stylesheet helper can generate a link or style element
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12:52 forwardever sri: is there a way to get correct indentation in mojo templates, right now, using <% tags, either the template or the final html is not correctly indented
12:53 sri <% tags should not affect indentation much
12:56 sri or do you expect "magic"?
12:57 sri like it should detect loops and reindent magically?
12:57 sri :)
12:59 forwardever and blocks :)
12:59 sri no thats not possible
13:00 sri surrounding whitespace can be trimmed, but thats it
13:00 forwardever so whats better, to get correct indentation in final output, or template output, or doesnt it matter
13:02 forwardever by the way, TT has FILTER indent()
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13:02 GitHub179 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 91e8a99 (3 files in 3 dirs): renamed tag helper input to input_tag - http://bit.ly/8XWLBG
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13:02 sri then build an indent filter
13:03 sri all the tools are there
13:04 sri <%= indent begin %><% end %>
13:05 sri or possibly indent_filter
13:05 forwardever would probably make templates to look too complicated
13:05 sri does it make tt look complicated?
13:06 sri forwardever: btw. no i don't think a crud system needs to go into the core for user adoption to happen
13:07 sri as long as you make a common task easier than it was before, users will adopt it
13:08 sri and a good crud system would make a very common task vert much easier
13:08 stephan48 vti_: when i would want to make a custom theme for booty, where should i look?
13:08 sri *very
13:09 forwardever i meant not an orm, but kind of a standard belongs to the core, so that plugins (like validation, form, orm ...) can be easily linked together
13:09 sri vti_: btw. sorry about breaking bootylicious again, please feel free to veto at any time if you think i'm going to far with the cleanup
13:10 sri forwardever: first we would need a best practice to emerge
13:11 sri i don't see a simple solution for crud, there are way too many ways
13:13 sri hey, if you can come up with the perfect crud system everybody here loves i'll be the first to suggest core inclusion :)
13:13 sri but i don't see that happen any time soon
13:17 stephan48 same like with xmlrpc/soap?
13:18 sri xmlrpc and soap are special since they are legacy technologies
13:18 sri they have no place in todays web
13:19 sri we have REST and json
13:20 sri soap more than xmlrpc though
13:20 und3f[A] is now known as und3f
13:21 sri xmlrpc will be around for a long time due to blog apis and stuff
13:22 forwardever sri: are there tests in mojolicious to validate the directory structure created via generate app (I need tests for my plugin, so would like to first checkout some test examples)
13:23 sri forwardever: sadly not
13:23 sri the command system is one of the very few places where test coverage is not good enough yet
13:24 sri that would be a good gsoc project -.-
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13:43 forwardever will probably add some test scaffolding than, so once a resource has been created by a user, some basic tests can be run, like adding, editing, listing and deleting data, starting the generate command during tests seems to be much more challenging
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14:55 MojoGuest849 From: http://www.google.se/search?sourceid=ch​rome&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;q=websocket+demo (1 hits)
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15:17 stephan48 sri: so you suggest i should rather implement something RESTish + json then xmlrpc?
15:17 xantus sri: how's hypnotoad going
15:19 stephan48 would be much easier to implement i think ;)
15:19 stephan48 my client side xmlrpc pseudo implementation is horrible
15:25 sri xantus: slowly
15:25 sri stephan48: if you have the choice, hell yes :)
15:26 stephan48 i have :)
15:27 sri xantus: async resolvr gets priority atm
15:27 sri *resolver
15:27 stephan48 with xmlrpc and soap i would have to implement the stuff by myself based on some other classes which dont do that what i want on both sides. with REST it will be easier
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15:41 xantus dns resolver?
15:48 sri ye
15:48 sri und3f built one that i need to clean up and merge in
15:49 sri damn, i'm starting to really like chrome for os x
15:51 sri safari needs to let go of its stupid tabs
16:27 phillipadsmith sri: doesn't chrome have tabs also?
16:28 sri yea, but at the top
16:29 phillipadsmith sri: ah, I see what you mean...
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17:01 xantus chrome++
17:01 xantus I have given up on firefox
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17:01 sri given up on firefox a very long time ago
17:02 sri i don't get why apple lets google build a browser with a better interface
17:03 xantus lol :)
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17:15 MojoGuest649 From: http://www.google.no/search?client=oper​a&amp;rls=en&amp;q=websockets+irc&amp;s​ourceid=opera&amp;ie=utf-8&amp;oe=utf-8 (1 hits)
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18:15 sri xantus: already seen what they did with the websocket protocol?
18:15 sri (they being the hybi working group)
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18:16 sri http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-​ietf-hybi-thewebsocketprotocol-03
18:16 sri section 4.2
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18:38 vti_ stephan48: let me add wordpress theme as an example
18:38 stephan48 :)
18:38 vti_ sri: ah, that's ok
18:38 vti_ it's not finished btw :)
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18:39 vti_ but looks cool
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18:40 vti_ stephan48: pushed, check it out
18:40 stephan48 k
18:40 vti_ admin is there too :)
18:40 stephan48 :)
18:41 vti_ but it's very basic
18:42 vti_ and will be changed of course
18:42 vti_ sri: i used label because it looks cool and same when i use <% label %><% input %><% validator_error %>.. you know
18:42 vti_ but you're right i think
18:43 sri maybe it was just the implementation
18:43 sri i hated the block usage
18:43 sri <%= label_for foo => 'Foo' %>
18:44 sri that could work better
18:44 vti_ but link_to is opposite now, <%= link_to 'Title' => 'route' %>
18:44 sri hmm
18:44 sri right
18:44 vti_ won't it be confusing?
18:44 sri label_*?
18:44 sri need better name :)
18:45 sri i don't want tag helpers that look like html tags anymore
18:45 vti_ ok
18:45 sri will take some of the confusion away
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18:47 sri it is also label_for
18:47 sri not label_to
18:47 sri ;p
18:47 vti_ ok, ok
18:47 sri damn, i kinda like <%= label_for foo => 'Foo' %>
18:47 vti_ i like it too
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18:58 sri hmm, it is still more to type
18:59 sri <%= label_for name => 'Your Name' %>
18:59 sri <label for="name">Your Name</label>
18:59 sri well, equal
19:00 sri unsure about it
19:00 sri added value is rather slim
19:05 sri thoughts?
19:05 sri label_for or not label_for?
19:06 sri ok, no label_for ;p
19:06 sri gonna keep tag helpers small for now
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19:46 vti_ sri: i am using subtree now, really like it
19:46 vti_ in booty
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19:47 sri vti_: subtree?
19:48 vti_ i used git submodules
19:48 vti_ subtree is much nicer, user doesn't have to do anything except clone and pull
19:49 vti_ you do git clone and you have booty, mojolicious and all other stuff already in
19:49 vti_ and downloads on github already has everything needed :)
19:50 sri how does that work?
19:51 vti_ you add a remote branch and put it into a specific directory http://progit.org/book/ch6-7.html
19:52 sri interesting
19:53 vti_ and i can apply new mojo commits as one using git pull -s subtree mojo --squash --no-commit
19:53 vti_ but for the end user it looks like one repo
19:53 sri yea, thats really nice
19:55 vti_ how's dns thing doing?
19:55 sri dns side is pretty much working, but ioloop needs some refactoring
19:55 sri we currently depend on blockig dns lookup
19:55 sri *+n
19:56 sri i need a new strategy for connection ids
19:57 sri currently they are stringified socket objects, but with async lookup we don't have those in time
19:59 vti_ hm, that sounds like redesing :)
19:59 vti_ *redesign
20:00 sri now i'm unsure if i should go with pretty ids like md5hex or just stringify a hash or so
20:00 sri tend towards stringify a hash atm
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20:25 Akron Was here with an SSL problem some days ago. It still occurs. Here's what I'm running: http://pastebin.com/9vH4sBnS
20:25 Akron Hi all btw. ;)
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20:30 Akron One additional info (maybe important) - all Modules are push(@INC,'...')ed.
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20:35 sri Akron: perl -Mojo -e'print g("https://www.google.com")->body'
20:35 sri does that work?
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20:36 Akron It runs on a webhost (no ssh) - but okay, I can start that as a new process. Wait a minute.
20:37 sri hmm, thats will make debugging almost impossible
20:37 sri *-s
20:38 sri next i would ask you for the output of "mojo version"
20:39 sri and after that likely "MOJO_CLIENT_DEBUG=1 perl -Mojo -e'print g("https://www.google.com")->body'"
20:40 Akron Hey - that works!
20:42 Akron Thank you! But why does 'use ojo; print g("https://www.google.com/");' works on my local machine ... ? Well .. nevermind.
20:43 sri mojo version will likely give you the answer
20:44 sri i bet on IO::Socket::SSL being too old
20:48 Akron 1.16 is too old? Damn ...
20:49 Akron Locally I have 1.33.
20:51 sri way too old
20:53 Akron Okay ... I'm a total idiot. I pushed my local installed modules instead of unshifting. Now it's working. Thank you!!
20:54 Akron Installing these things on shared webhosts is no fun ...
20:55 sri well, shared webhosts are dead soon anyway
20:55 sri you can get an ec2 instance for $15 per month
20:57 Akron Or - now - for free: http://aws.amazon.com/free/
20:57 Akron But it's not my machine - and I'm happy enough, getting FastCGI running ...
21:03 perlrocks Twitter: "Updated blog. - Mojolicious:: Lite to try a Web framework. - Http://ow.ly/2Y0Wx" (ja) --hid_tgc http://twitter.com/hid_tgc/status/28439651691
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21:51 sri the more i read up on spdy and ietf websockets the more angry i get
21:52 sri you can literally see how it all boils down to some google corporate agenda
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22:16 MojoGuest693 test
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22:16 xantus sri: !!! wtf
22:17 sri :)
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22:18 sri you can really follow step by step the transformation
22:19 xantus sri: looks like a c programmer came in to screw it up :)
22:19 sri just a pack of google engineers
22:19 sri they rule the mailing list
22:20 xantus the frame length parts are funny
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22:20 xantus hey its megatron!
22:20 megatron it is?
22:21 * sri hides under a rock
22:21 megatron dough ...
22:21 megatron shyte, its me, alnewkirk
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22:21 * sri stays hidden
22:21 megatron trying to give myself a crash course in ubuntu and irssi
22:21 xantus hehe
22:22 megatron irssi docs suck ass
22:22 xantus the ws protocol is starting to look like the spdy protocol
22:23 xantus sri: have you looked at that?
22:23 sri lol
22:23 sri i just tweeted that
22:23 sri conspiracy theory!
22:23 xantus wait, you did?
22:24 sri google tricks other browser vendors into adopting spdy through websockets
22:24 sri it's obvious!
22:24 xantus LOL
22:24 xantus #websockets are becoming google #spdy, you've read it here first folks! #html5 #ietf #fail (30 mins ago)
22:24 sri !!!
22:26 sri they will 100% add multiplexing too
22:27 xantus heh, it is spdy
22:27 xantus k, I'm gone until later
22:28 sri laters
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23:02 forwardever made bigger cleanup of resourceful_routes plugin today, code looks much better now
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23:05 stephan48 vti_: can you maybe allow to specifiy the base directory? and then from there on the config and all the rest is searched? so you can run multiple blog instances from one codebase
23:10 megatron exit
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