Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-11-11

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All times shown according to UTC.

Time Nick Message
00:05 xantus sri: so what have you done with riak so far
00:06 sri xantus: just playing around so far
00:06 sri but will be using it for something big in january i think
00:08 sri no fulltext search spoils couchdb for me
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00:14 xantus yeah, sucks
00:14 xantus I saw a mojo riak module
00:15 sri Oo
00:15 xantus https://github.com/vti/mojox-socket_stream
00:15 xantus ah, redis
00:16 xantus Oh, and you might like this: https://github.com/crucially/riakfuse
00:19 sri marcus showed me that some months back :)
00:19 xantus ah
00:19 sri https://github.com/seancribbs/ripple # this is what i'll aim for
00:22 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-ShareHelpers-0.2: http://bit.ly/dcF3Vy" (ja) --1i_ http://twitter.com/1i_/status/2516496563576832
00:22 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-Mail-0.7: http://bit.ly/a8rdye" (ja) --1i_ http://twitter.com/1i_/status/2516498702663680
00:22 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-Mail-0.7: http://bit.ly/a8rdye" (ja) --1i_ http://twitter.com/1i_/status/2516499088539649
00:22 sri X_x
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00:27 xantus "Looking for a specific Riak Driver? Basho currently supports libraries for Erlang, Javascript, Java, PHP, Python and Ruby."
00:29 xantus I see Perl left out way too often
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00:36 sri perl is dying
00:37 sri the big problem is that we have too few young programmers
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00:38 sri which is strange considering how easy it is to find a good perl job
00:38 sri think the tpf marketing team is to blame
00:39 sri what better way to sell a language than open jobs
00:39 Alias It's working for Ada and COBOL
00:39 sri :)
00:40 Alias You have to have both
00:40 Alias I heard a great way of describing the issue once, in a totally different context
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00:41 Alias The idea was that, as someone selling a product, you can't just make the cheapest or more consumer-targetted product
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00:41 Alias You need to have something specifically designed to attrack the Otaku (the fanatics, in the Japanese sense)
00:42 Alias The Otaku product attracts the hardcore and most outgoing people, and is great for media attention and mindshare
00:42 Alias And then, in addition to the Otaku product, you have the products that normal people buy.
00:42 Alias So if you are a blender company, you have the Will It Blend completely over the top model
00:42 Alias And people that are obsessed by blenders buy that one
00:43 sri lol
00:43 Alias But on the basis of that, you can sell 100 or 1000-times more of your upper-middle-class blender
00:43 Alias And 100,000 times more of your Will-It-Blend inspired ordinary blender
00:43 Alias At some point, Perl lost the Otaku market
00:44 Alias To Python and Ruby and most recently to the "Random language that runs on the JVM" crowd
00:44 Alias Even though Perl's ordinary blender is just awesome, without the Otaku attention at the top end we're just not cool any more
00:45 Alias So we're left yelling "Buy us! We're pragmatic!"
00:45 Alias Which works about as well as selling a pragmatic blender
00:46 sri about time we send Perl to one of those restyling reality shows
00:48 Alias We need the programming language equivalent of Old Spice Guy
00:48 Alias Even though he's just a one-hit wonder, so it's not quite comparible
00:49 sri or the ipod
00:54 sri jvm languages are not cool at all anymore though, oracle took care of that
00:54 sri it's all about javascript now
00:54 xantus ugh, Net::Riak
00:54 xantus requires Moose
00:55 sri MongoDB requires Moose too :)
00:56 xantus Moose is my poison
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01:17 perlrocks Twitter: "If you program perl I suggest you follow @kraih because in addition to announcing Mojolicious versions he shares ton of perl news." --alexsergeyev http://twitter.com/alexserge​yev/status/2530348084760576
01:34 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: You're missing out big time already anyway by running #mojolicious on #perl 5.8, some parts are up to 20 times faster on 5.10. ;)" --shonorio http://twitter.com/shonori​o/status/2534652887695360
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01:47 tempire mojo is my otaku
01:48 sri heh, thats sounds wrong :)
01:48 sri *-s
01:48 tempire the alternative was 'mojo is my old spice'
01:49 tempire which I suppose would bring a whole new crowd in ;)
01:49 sri !tweet #mojolicious is my old spice! #perl
01:49 perlrocks sri: http://twitter.com/perlroc​ks/status/2538320819130368
01:49 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious is my old spice! #perl --sri" --perlrocks http://twitter.com/perlroc​ks/status/2538320819130368
01:49 tempire boosh.
01:49 sri :D
01:50 tempire no one ever joined my catalyst-masochism channel.
01:50 tempire I feel alone.
01:51 * sri backs off...slowly
01:52 tempire I was accused of being a masochist in the catalyst channel when I was trying to use and extend catalystx::declare
01:52 tempire I felt the channel was aptly named.
01:53 sri wonder why os x refuses to let me open 1000 tcp connections
01:54 sri i've increased somaxconn to 2048 and uname -n too
02:14 sri hmm, now it works
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02:26 GitHub79 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 35f6e2d (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed typo - http://bit.ly/9igSv6
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02:26 sri Zzz
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02:58 Ned Does anyone know where I can find information on how to do long-polling stuff with mojo ?
02:58 Ned I've been reading through the perldoc but haven't managed to find anything yet (other than a feature list that says it does it) :-)
03:08 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious:: Lite if you use the CGI environment, put / delete apache first method is there any action required by the ..." (ja) --TokyoIncidents http://twitter.com/TokyoIncid​ents/status/2558225148813312
03:27 tempire Ned: you'll have to tune in tomorrow when the async zealots wake up.
03:31 Ned tempire: how many hours you reckon
03:31 Ned ?
03:32 tempire I'm guessing about 6 or 7.
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06:39 perlrocks Twitter: "@patrick_fraley I'm currently using Mojolicious for a long-term project, wouldn't dream of using any other Perl solution." --tempiretech http://twitter.com/tempiret​ech/status/2611407287746560
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11:52 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious::Lite (and even Mojolicious) is indeed a great replacement in most places where one uses PHP... and much more!" --_arthas http://twitter.com/_arthas/status/2690158398803968
12:21 sri Ned: what type of long polling?
12:22 sri https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/mast​er/t/mojolicious/longpolling_lite_app.t
12:22 sri there are some examples
12:24 sri i suggest using the $self->write_chunk(...) method
12:25 sri would be equal to the twitter stream api
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13:30 tempire_ Doh.  I forgot about the long polling test file.
13:30 tempire_ Rhel6!
13:30 tempire_ Though, honestly, I'd wait for centos 6 to be released.
13:31 tempire_ It's a shame that rhel6 doesn't have 5.12, considering the 7 year lifecycle of the product.
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14:00 GitHub161 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 55dfeb0 (1 files in 1 dirs): added chunked transfer encoding recipe - http://bit.ly/bh6Fg4
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14:05 GitHub28 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5f45291 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved recipe - http://bit.ly/9NvCWw
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14:08 GitHub102 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7c26d2d (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/cnr4NX
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14:09 sri complicated topic, hope thats simple enough
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14:12 GitHub69 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 06a201c (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/bBMbcM
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14:23 tempire_ I'd recommend an example with the timer, maybe just a copy of one of the examples in the long polling test file.
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14:24 sri timers are not portable
14:24 sri they are like very very advanced
14:27 sri the example i've used might not even work with fastcgi
14:27 sri some servers buffer the response
14:28 tempire_ Yeah, I've been bit by that.  Quite annoying.
14:28 sri guess we could have a hypnotoad hacks section showing the real cool stuff later :)
14:29 tempire_ HYPNOTOAD!
14:29 sri ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!
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14:59 jfuller What are the implications of deprecating MojoX namespace, and merging those modules into the Mojolicious namespace?
15:00 sri jfuller: none i guess
15:02 sri and thats the main reason it has been done
15:03 sri the idea was to have an intermediate api layer
15:03 sri but nobody every used it
15:03 sri *-y
15:03 sri it only made following reference documentation much harder
15:04 sri guess you could say there are philosophical implications
15:04 sri in favor of less intermediate api layers
15:05 jfuller sri: interesting, I was curious because I don't usually see namespace shifts like that very often
15:06 sri i was a little surprised too how painless it was
15:07 daxim sri, how about sending a team to plat_forms?
15:07 sri daxim: sure
15:07 sri if you can find a team after i bashed the contest here so much :S
15:08 daxim I didn't see/missed the bashing
15:08 sri maybe i should stay silent now then :D
15:09 forwardever sri: is mojo still a framework for frameworks (or is there a shift in strategy)?
15:09 sri forwardever: nono, the mojo stays the same
15:09 sri *layer
15:10 sri just the intermediate layer is gone from the core
15:10 sri for everyone else it is still an option
15:10 sri but i consider the experiment failed
15:12 sri the mojo/mojolicious split still makes sense imo
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15:12 sri considering that almost everything in Mojo:: follows some common spec
15:12 sri like RFCs
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15:14 forwardever okay, and is there a reason why routes is in mojolicious, not in mojo, e.g. (just curious, to complicated to make it stand alone?)
15:15 sri there is no real routes spec
15:15 sri Mojolicious::Routes::Pattern would be a candidate though
15:15 sri it is generic enough
15:16 sri Routes and Routes::Match not so much
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15:20 forwardever okay, like the original idea of building a framework for frameworks (loose or no couplings of modules as in mojo), to get more people on board, which will also help mojolicious
15:21 sri that idea has not changed
15:26 forwardever great :)
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15:31 GitHub130 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 8b0ae53 (2 files in 2 dirs): moved generic command methods back to the Mojo layer - http://bit.ly/9zPTPj
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15:33 sri now the whole command line system lives in Mojo::Command :)
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15:47 GitHub119 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * ed89784 (2 files in 2 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/dekU95
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18:34 MojoGuest623 From: http://www.google.de/search?q=websockets+demo&​amp;ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org​.mozilla:en-US:unofficial&client=firefox-a (1 hits)
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18:37 chansen sri: core (p5p) needs a simple http client, would you like to join me writing it?
18:40 sri chansen: been following the discussion, would like to join, but sadly not enough time this weekend :(
18:43 chansen ok, =)
18:45 sri promised sister to help with house renovation :S
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18:46 DaTa where is the discussion? :)
18:46 sri #p5p
18:49 DaTa ok, nothing to read in a quiet evening :)
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19:15 perlrocks Twitter: "Sending email from #Mojolicious http://tinyurl.com/32gezm2" --vtivti http://twitter.com/vtivti/status/2801486262181888
19:15 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @vtivti: Sending email from #Mojolicious http://tinyurl.com/32gezm2 #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/2801726482550784
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19:44 Ned sri: ?
19:44 sri Ned?
19:44 Ned sri: basically, I want clients to connect to a long-polling URI, and then have events from another URI trigger messages to those clients
19:44 Ned e.g. I have /poll and /post
19:45 Ned I'm happy enough for the /poll request to finish when a message comes in
19:45 Ned and the client can re-request
19:45 sri i like how the twitter streaming api handles it
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19:46 Ned sri: my problem is that ideally when I get a request, I want to push the client on to an array
19:47 Ned and then at a different time, send it data
19:47 Ned is that feasible ?
19:48 sri "push the client on to an array"
19:48 sri no idea what you mean
19:48 Ned well,
19:48 sri that doesn't make sense
19:48 Ned get '/poll' => sub { my $self = shift; push @clients, $self }
19:48 Ned get '/post' => sub { my $self = shift; $_->write_chunk(shift) foreach @clients }
19:48 Ned or smoething
19:48 Ned something
19:49 sri seems reasonable
19:49 Ned okay,
19:49 Ned and if I'm trying to send javascript messages
19:49 sri and you would use an on_finish callback to clean up
19:49 Ned each chunk should be something like:
19:50 Ned '<script>cb(json_data_here)</script>'
19:50 Ned ?
19:50 sri that depends on the client side
19:50 sri up to you
19:51 Ned right
19:51 Ned basically I want to pass chunks of data
19:51 sri i'm sure there are many examples for handling the twitter api
19:51 Ned so I'm imagining that's the best way ?
19:51 Ned are there alternatives ?
19:52 sri websockets in a few years -.-
19:52 sri but for now you're better off with long polling
19:52 Ned yes, I'm using websockets where browsers support it
19:52 Ned I didn't mean alternatives to long polling
19:52 Ned I meant alternatives to my message format
19:53 Ned (i.e. the script-tag that fires a callback
19:53 Ned )
20:02 sri there are always alternatives
20:03 sri jsonp seems the most common format
20:05 Ned sri: if you're doing that chunked sending
20:05 Ned (as per my example above)
20:05 Ned how do you deal with it on the client ?
20:05 Ned do you need to use an iframe ?
20:05 sri thats beyond the scope of mojolicious
20:05 Ned or can xmlhttprequest deal with that ?
20:05 sri i suggest reading up on the subject
20:05 Ned sri: right, do you have any pointers on where I should start there ?
20:06 sri it is rather huge
20:06 Ned okay, well I'll have a google around :-)
20:06 sri wise choice :)
20:07 sri don't know any good links :/
20:07 perlrocks Twitter: "Sending email is easy in #Mojolicious Thanks guys! :) RT: @kraih: RT @vtivti: Sending email from #Mojolicious http://bit.ly/ctN0Nq #perl" --sharifulin http://twitter.com/shariful​in/status/2814712114839552
20:08 sri usually it goes the other way, people decide to use some jquery plugin and ask how to serve a specific format
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20:20 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @vtivti Sending email from #Mojolicious http://tinyurl.com/32gezm2 #perl" --xomaa http://twitter.com/xomaa/status/2817864616640512
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20:46 Ned sri: $ENV{MOJO_POLL} = 1, what does that do exactly ?
20:47 sri see Mojolicious::Guides::Cheatsheet
20:47 Ned righto, ta
20:47 Ned whoa, there's an army of env vars in there :-)
20:47 * Ned starts at the top
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20:59 Ned Hmmm, there seem to be method naming differences between the current version and the version in sid
20:59 Ned are the method names stable now, or are they likely to change before 1.0 ?
21:04 sri which version is in sid?
21:05 sri oh wow, thats old
21:05 sri 29
21:06 sri actually method names did not change much, just a lot got deprecated
21:07 sri i hope names are stable now, but there will always be stuff getting deprecated
21:10 Ned right
21:10 Ned on_finish (for example) isn't in sid
21:10 Ned I just built a copy from cpan
21:10 Ned things are happier :p
21:10 sri was finish_cb or so before
21:10 Ned finished
21:10 Ned I used
21:13 Ned Hmmm, my clients seem to be timing out after around 5 seconds
21:13 * Ned hunts for timeouts :p
21:16 sri keep alive timeout
21:16 Ned right, on the tx ?
21:17 sri server
21:17 sri or if you want more control the ioloop
21:18 sri Mojo::IOLoop->singleton->conne​ction_timeout($tx->connection, 300) or so
21:18 Ned before the app starts ?
21:19 sri ye
21:19 Ned cool
21:19 Ned okay, things are starting to come together :p
21:19 Ned I still need to make a client ;-)
21:19 Ned cheers for all your help :-)
21:19 Ned (so far) :p
21:20 Ned are you the author ?
21:20 sri sure, make sure to blog about it or add a recipe to the wiki ;)
21:20 * sri nods
21:20 Ned sri: well, potentially I can whack some stuff on github
21:20 Ned an example of what I'm doing
21:20 Ned :_)
21:32 Ned sri: is seems on_finish never gets called
21:32 Ned I put a warn 'FINISHED' in there
21:32 Ned never seems to happen
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21:33 sri strange, that would be a bug
21:34 Ned right, it should fire when the client closes the connection ?
21:34 sri when it gets noticed on the server side yes
21:35 Ned right
21:36 Ned Hmmm, $self->tx->on_finish() isn't firing either
21:36 Ned although I suspect one is using the other
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21:38 GitHub90 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * f76dc03 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved test - http://bit.ly/cXln7p
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21:39 sri Ned: on_finish has tons of tests, so i'm going to need a failing test case
21:40 Ned okay, so I need to write a test ?
21:40 Ned I'll have to figure out how the client works
21:40 Ned basically, my "client" at the moment is curl, and ctrl-c
21:42 sri ideally a patch for one of the test files
21:43 Ned righto
21:43 Ned I'll have a play, see what I can do
21:44 * Ned clones
21:45 Ned so the patch you did ^^ up there didn't break it ?
21:45 sri of course not
21:45 sri i would never commit something broken
21:45 Ned :-)
21:45 sri (intentionally)
21:45 Ned heh
21:46 sri i have an idea where it might be though
21:47 Ned right
21:47 Ned Hmmm, Test::Mojo ... does that actually make a server and make connections on lo or something ?
21:48 sri yes, it uses real sockets
21:48 sri in the same process
21:48 sri non-blocking io
21:49 Ned right
21:49 Ned so in the longpolling_lite_app, what's "closing" the connection ?
21:49 Ned or is it timing out?
21:50 sri client shutdown
21:50 sri it might use a single keep alive connection for everything
21:50 Ned okay, so how is the request ended then?
21:50 Ned when it goes out of scope or something ?
21:51 Ned Hmmm, I think it might be all a little over my head :-(
21:51 sri DESTROY of the client most likely in a test
21:52 Ned even if I let curl timeout, it still doesn't fire the event
21:52 Ned so client _or_ server closing connection doesn't seem to fire it :-(
21:54 sri think you'll need another week or two before you could think about writing such a complicated test
21:54 Ned :-)
21:54 sri Test::Mojo won't even work
21:54 Ned in the mean time, no ideas on why the callback might be broken ?
21:55 sri i have an idea, but the test is really hard
21:55 Ned heh
21:55 Ned :-(
21:55 Ned I guess the test needs to start a server, then play client for a bit
21:55 Ned then shut it down ?
21:55 sri it needs to interrupt the connection
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21:56 sri before the server is finished
21:56 Ned yeah,
21:56 Ned like server sends two chunks 30 seconds apart, client closes connection after 15 seconds
21:56 Ned or something
21:56 sri right
21:56 sri i have the fix, but no test
21:56 Ned heh,
21:56 Ned can you paste a patch ?
21:56 Ned I'd be keen to try it out
21:57 sri let me first test it
21:57 Ned okay,
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22:03 und3f sri, seems like some problem in connection_timeout http://pastebin.ca/1988535
22:03 sri und3f: what?
22:04 und3f sri, check out this tests, updated http://pastebin.ca/1988543
22:05 sri und3f: why?
22:05 und3f sri, becouse of bug in mojo?
22:05 sri is this related to Neds problem?
22:05 und3f what is NEds problem?
22:05 sri ...
22:06 marcus Ned's dea, baby
22:06 sri you can't just throw random code at me without explanation
22:06 und3f sri, connection_timeout and timer doesn't works in situation presented in test
22:06 sri ok
22:06 und3f sri, is this enough explanation?
22:07 sri maybe
22:07 und3f sri, everything works if delete line 17 ($self->write)
22:07 sri you made it look like you had a solution for the problem we were just discussing
22:07 sri thats rather rude
22:08 und3f i didn't read chat
22:08 sri i'll take a look when i have time
22:08 und3f just debugging my code
22:09 sri might be a better idea to use github next time then
22:09 und3f sri, also everything works if run without tls
22:09 und3f sri, seems like another tls bug :|
22:10 sri since i'm workig on another bug first you could also try turning it into a test patch
22:10 sri to speed up debugging
22:11 sri otherwise it might have to wait till tomorrow
22:11 und3f i'll wait
22:14 Ned Hmmmm, browsers are such a PITA ...
22:17 Ned sri: I think I might end up dong long-polling not using chunked encodings, because it seems browsers are too variable to make it work nicely :-(
22:17 Ned I'll probably do websockets where it's supported, and just long-polling one-request-per-message for others
22:17 Ned I guess I'll keep experimenting anyway ;-)
22:26 JonChisciotte I've set tt_render in the startup method and, loaded an url page dispatched to the standard example controller, it rendered the right .html.tt file. Then, loaded another url managed by another controller, the template name requested (seen in development.log) has been an ".html.ep" one. Why? Should I specified my preferred renderer somewhere else? Thanks
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22:39 GitHub31 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * cb66b51 (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed a bug that pevented on_finish to be triggered for interrupted connections - http://bit.ly/cvgJax
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22:41 GitHub177 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * c7e2357 (3 files in 3 dirs): fixed a bug that prevented on_finish to be triggered for interrupted connections - http://bit.ly/ahqtdE
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22:41 sri Ned: fixed
22:41 Ned yeah, I just saw
22:42 sri really hard test
22:42 Ned sri: when are you likely to push that to cpan ?
22:42 Ned :-(
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22:42 sri next week i think
22:42 Ned sweet
22:42 Ned I have a bunch of other work I need to sort out too, so I'll keep an eye out for that ;-)
22:43 Ned if I get impatient, I can always use my checkout
22:43 sri JonChisciotte: it will always default to .ep i think, just ignore it
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22:44 sri we support multiple template systems in parallel, detection should just do the right thing
22:44 JonChisciotte sri: it worked specifing handler=>'tt' in render method, I thought it was automagically set for each controller..
22:44 sri no need
22:45 sri it can detect template names
22:45 JonChisciotte uh, I omit 'tt' and put in the directory the .html.tt files Mojo searches for the .html.ep... cannot understand why
22:45 sri it searches for *everything*
22:46 sri .html.*
22:46 * marcus starts naming his templates .beer
22:46 JonChisciotte so, why it does not consider the .html.tt file?
22:46 sri thats the real question, likely the wrong name
22:47 sri und3f: don't know
22:48 JonChisciotte sri,  uhm, the template name is status.html.tt, it searches for status.html.ep, it doesn't seems a typo.
22:49 sri you can ignore the .ep ending, thats just an example, it always searches for all endings
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22:50 JonChisciotte ah, ok.. removed but nothing happened, maybe I'm doing something wrong somewhere else...
22:51 und3f sri, what you don't know?
22:56 sri someone find me a fresh simpsons quote!
23:05 JonChisciotte (*removed the handler) the time has come, gotta go to sleep, uff. Thank you sri, bye all.
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23:29 GitHub105 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * cc3c66d (2 files in 2 dirs): fixed a TLS accept bug - http://bit.ly/ctxSR7
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23:29 sri und3f: fixed
23:32 und3f sri, thanks )
23:45 und3f sri, in newest mojo $self->renderer->types gone, how to setup types now?
23:45 sri it has always been app->types->type(...)
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23:48 GitHub151 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 908efce (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/9x7UNa
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23:58 GitHub114 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 7605a69 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved test - http://bit.ly/ddkPwE
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