Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-11-29

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01:28 jdixon sri: yt?
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02:09 jdixon sri: nm
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04:37 kimoto mojo/client.t fail in windows7(64bit)
04:37 kimoto http://pastie.org/1331485
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07:35 crab Mon Nov 29 13:04:43 2010 debug Mojolicious::Plugin::RequestTimer:34 [2049]: 200 OK (0.066915s, 14.944/s).
07:35 crab Mon Nov 29 13:04:43 2010 error Mojo::Server::Daemon:183 [2049]: Unknown error, probably harmless.
07:35 crab not harmless.
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10:08 crab can i abandon rendering a template after rendering some of it?
11:20 * sri yawns
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11:27 * crab partially renders sri
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11:28 GitHub12 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 5f47688 (1 files in 1 dirs): pod cleanup
11:28 GitHub12 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 66f8aaf (1 files in 1 dirs): disabled another test on Windows
11:28 GitHub12 mojo: master commits 5f44807...66f8aaf - http://bit.ly/hN4fUF
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11:28 sri kimoto: test is now disabled on windows
11:29 sri the attempted workaround was obviously not good enough
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12:01 perlrocks Twitter: "www/p5-AnyEvent-Mojo - 0.8003_1: Rename p5-Mojo to p5-Mojolicious to reflect distname in CPAN.  Approved by:    ... http://bit.ly/fOC9G1" --freshports_org http://twitter.com/freshports​_org/status/9215418606551041
12:01 perlrocks Twitter: "www/p5-Mojo - 0.999941: Rename p5-Mojo to p5-Mojolicious to reflect distname in CPAN.  Approved by:    maintainer http://bit.ly/emxpr7" --freshports_org http://twitter.com/freshports​_org/status/9215419395084289
12:01 perlrocks Twitter: "www/p5-Mojolicious - 0.999941: Rename p5-Mojo to p5-Mojolicious to reflect distname in CPAN.  Approved by:    ma... http://bit.ly/hN7cxx" --freshports_org http://twitter.com/freshports​_org/status/9215420292665344
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12:24 sri think i can commit hypnotoad later today or tomorrow :D
12:29 sri just working on the config file now, gonna add a generator too
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12:46 jdixon sri: what is hypnotoad (yes, I know the reference)?
12:48 sri aweb server that will allow you to upgrade perl at runtime
12:56 sri it's basically a Mojo::Server::Daemon based worker pool with zero downtime software upgrades
12:56 sri and copy on write
13:04 jdixon cool
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13:27 sri right now the zero downtime upgrade is easier than a restart, we'll have to test and see if that's maybe too easy
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13:27 sri kill -s 'USR2' $manager_process will atm try to do absolutely everything automatically
13:28 sri in practice multiple signals might make more sense
13:29 sri like USR2 to start a second manager and worker pool, WINCH to gracefully stop old workers, and QUIT to gracefully stop the old manager
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13:30 sri thats how unicorn does it by default
13:31 sri but in all bigger production setups i know of that chain is automated via config files
13:31 sri so i'm going to try full automation first
13:32 sri hypnotoad will be experimental for quite some time, so we can always adjust stuff like that if neccessary :)
13:36 perlrocks Twitter: "WARNING: Playing with #mojolicious and #websockets is addictive :-)" --freekey http://twitter.com/freekey/status/9239242815315968
13:36 sri i expect mojolicious production upgrades to work like "git pull --rebase origin master; kill -s 'USR2' `cat /var/run/hypnotoad.pid`"
13:37 sri especially with schemaless nosql databases a very pleasant process
13:39 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @freekey: WARNING: Playing with #mojolicious and #websockets is addictive :-) #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/9239954165071872
13:41 baton8 sri, heh, yeah it would be nice
13:41 baton8 sri, is it in master on github now ?
13:41 sri later today or tomorrow i think
13:41 baton8 heh, great
13:41 sri still cleaning up the config file code
13:42 sri it will use pure perl config files, to allow code hooks
13:42 * baton8 playing with Mojo on weekends
13:43 baton8 so sweet stuff for weekend is nice
13:43 sri :)
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14:53 sri another cool thing about hypnotoad is that it uses the worker ioloop to send heartbeat messages to the manager
14:53 sri so if something blocks the ioloop it quickly gets noticed and the worker restarted
14:53 yko ht supposed to run mojo app or something else?
14:54 sri it manages a pool of Mojo::Server::Daemon instances
14:54 sri go figure ;p
14:54 yko aha
14:54 sri everybody loves the test daemon
14:54 yko hmm. as a single process or pipe or forks?
14:55 sri so i wanted the same simplicity for production setups
14:55 sri multiple processes
14:56 sri each in async mode like the normal daemon
14:56 yko nice
14:57 sri so basically, if your app works fine with the test daemon it should work great with hypnotoad
14:58 sri you just have to be aware of the fact that there will be many daemons running in parallel
14:59 yko ye. that is why you are against sql :D
14:59 sri not at all
14:59 sri i'm against sql because there are too many disadvantages
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15:00 sri it's not a single problem
15:00 yko btw, just for me one of solution is to have separate db backend and just use it.
15:00 sri being schemaless alone is a game changer though
15:01 yko my shame, i still didnt play with any nosql :)
15:01 sri shame on you!
15:01 yko ye
15:01 sri it's hard to let go of the sql mindset though
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15:02 yko aha
15:04 sri the transition from thinking in documents/objects instead of tables is the hardest part
15:06 yko most scaring thing for me is a complex data selectionm grouping, analyzing
15:07 sri thats usually rather easy with map/reduce
15:16 sri http://tomayko.com/writings/unicorn-is-unix # for those wondering what i'm talking about
15:17 sri working with this stuff really makes you realize how wonderful unix is
15:17 sri and it is a lot better in perl than ruby
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15:21 MojoGuest961 DD
15:21 MojoGuest961 DDD
15:21 sri E
15:21 MojoGuest961 DDD
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15:25 jdixon yko: that config didn't work for me  :(
15:25 jdixon I'll try to get specifics later
15:25 jdixon just got into work
15:29 yko jdixon: now you must edit wiki :)
15:30 jdixon k
15:42 jdixon sri: nice avatar  :)
15:43 jdixon ho ho ho
15:43 sri :D
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15:58 fish__ sri: is there yet xml writing stuff in mojo? for serializing data structures to xml?
15:58 sri fish__: don't think there ever will be
15:59 sri perl to xml just sucks
15:59 sri always better to just use a template
16:00 fish__ because i'm thinking about writing a simple xml-rpc plugin for mojo
16:00 fish__ or i try to make json working on the other side.. with render(json => .. ) this would be much easier
16:01 sri json is a muhc better option for that use case
16:03 sri "XML is a markup technology, JSON  a structured data exchange format."
16:03 fish__ yes i know. i would choose json anyway, but i guess its harder for the php guys to talk json
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16:20 crab sri: i am very pleased with all my block-eating helpers.
16:22 chansen fish__: because there isn't a native API or modules that implements it?
16:25 fish__ chansen: yep, i think so
16:31 chansen I'm confused, PHP doesn't have any modules that implement JSON?
16:31 chansen 00
16:34 fish__ chansen: i bet they have, but they don't have it in there core afaik
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16:41 fish__ stupid question, but how do i get post data from a post if its not form encoded?
16:42 sri $self->req->body
16:42 fish__ sri: thx
16:43 sri perldoc Mojo::Message::Request usually has the answer to those kind of questions
16:43 sri *+s
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17:57 moritz hi
17:57 moritz the docu to Mojolicious::Lite says one can use
17:57 moritz mojo generate appname
17:57 moritz but all that does on my box is saying
17:58 moritz Command "appname" missing, maybe you need to install it?
17:58 sri where does it say that?
17:58 moritz on the command line
17:58 sri plase be more specific
17:58 sri *please
17:58 moritz http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojolic​ious-0.999941/lib/Mojolicious/Lite.pm
17:59 moritz There is also a helper command to generate a small example application.
17:59 moritz % mojo generate lite_app
17:59 moritz oh
17:59 sri :)
17:59 moritz lite_app is note the name of the app
17:59 moritz but the actual command
17:59 * moritz dumb
18:00 sri feel free to rephrase if it confuses you
18:01 moritz may just add your_app_name to the end of the command line
18:22 moritz is there a report-server-errors-to-the-web mode a la CGI::Carp of Mojolicious::Lite?
18:23 sri try it ;)
18:23 sri oh wait
18:23 sri you need a template still
18:23 sri mojo generate app
18:23 sri like the exception template generated there
18:24 * sri puts the built in exception template on the 1.0 checklist
18:26 moritz works like a charm, thanks
18:27 moritz I can't find an example of passing data from a 'get' handler to the template in the ::Lite docu
18:27 moritz am I dumb again? or is it missing?
18:28 yko moritz, use stash
18:28 sri there are a few examples that do it
18:29 sri you basically need to understand the stash
18:29 sri the guides cover that way better
18:30 sri but i'm open for additional tutorial examples ;)
18:30 moritz well, first I need to understand it
18:31 moritz only then can I start thinking about improving the docs :-)
18:31 yko mortiz: https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib​/Mojolicious/Guides/Rendering.pod#Stash_Data
18:31 sri moritz: it would be nice if you could write those little details you notice down in the wiki
18:32 sri improving the lite tutorial is something i care very much about
18:32 moritz yko: I'm going through the rending guide now, thanks
18:33 jdixon sri++
18:33 sri maybe cross references to the guides would help too
18:33 jdixon good docs++
18:33 yko jdixon: fix wiki! :D
18:34 jdixon hehe
18:40 moritz https://github.com/kraih/mojo/wiki/Newby-Notes
18:41 sri an early example showing how templates work and how to pass data to them might be a good addition
18:42 sri moritz++ # very valuable feedback for improving the tutorial
18:42 sri error template is another good point we need to fix before 1.0
18:43 sri a pretty exception template just needs to be built in
18:50 DaTa there is already a usefull one in a full mojolicious app, when i needed one i've always used that
18:51 crab i didn't even realise that ::lite didn't come with the same template, though it stands to reason now that i think about it
18:57 sri it should just be built in, and a little prettier
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19:06 moritz where is link_to documented?
19:08 sri Mojolicious::Plugin::TagHelpers
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19:11 moritz I don't understand it
19:12 moritz I have a   get '/m/:mid/ => sub { ... }
19:12 moritz and I want to link to that route with link text TEXT and mid 2
19:12 sri you possibly don't understand route names yet
19:12 moritz how do I call link_to?
19:12 moritz sri: probably
19:12 sri your route needs a name
19:12 sri get '/m/:mid/ => sub { ... } => 'name';
19:13 moritz ah
19:13 sri there's an exampe for that in the tutorial already though
19:13 moritz isn't that bad end weight?
19:13 moritz meta data after a long block of code
19:13 sri alternatives?
19:14 moritz hm
19:14 moritz get { name => 'foo}, '/m/:mid' , sub { ... }
19:14 sri hashref is reserved
19:14 moritz hmmm
19:14 sri arrayref too
19:15 moritz scalarref?
19:15 moritz get \'index', '/' => sub { ... }
19:15 sri not yet i think, just scalar pairs
19:16 crab get \'index', '/' => sub { ... } reads horribly
19:16 moritz crab: I agree it's not really great
19:16 sri we tend to prefer pretty over correct around here :)
19:17 crab name 'index' => get '/' => sub { ... } :-)
19:17 moritz the name at the end just reminds of the regex modifiers at the end of the regex
19:17 sri get('/foo' => sub {...})->name('lalala') is possible too
19:17 moritz which is quite a design mistake, IMHO
19:17 crab enabled by "use Mojolicious::Nomenclature::Moritz"
19:18 crab moritz: you can always separate the sub and write get '/' => \&blah => 'name';
19:19 moritz crab: that reads nicer to me
19:27 Akron So the Hypnotoad release will be sponsored by the US Gov to distract people from Wikileaks?!? At least it would distract me ...
19:28 sri :D
19:29 crab whois sri
19:29 crab urk
19:29 * sri slowly moves back into the shadows
19:29 crab maybe they'll see it as a way to renew ties with .de
19:30 Akron Yeah. Better don't give the first release code name "Teflon"!
19:31 Akron First Hypnotoad code name will be "red hering" I guess.
19:31 yko вif you don't like M9s::Lite syntax you may like pure Mojolicious routes syntax :)
19:33 sri he's just spoiles by perl6 ;p
19:33 sri *spoiled
19:33 yko :)
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20:31 perlrocks Twitter: "I discovered #SLOCCount by David A. Wheeler does not take the Perl t/*.t files into account. This skewed my Mojo... http://bit.ly/eLPtfl" --skewedup http://twitter.com/skewedu​p/status/9343825264779265
20:57 crab if i say <%= hidden_field 'x' %>, will it get stash 'x's value?
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21:04 sri param i think
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21:42 yko crab: that's why i usually set value to '' for passwords
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21:45 sri password fields are not filled out
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21:48 yko good. but i'm sure they were time ago
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22:45 sri think i'll make hypnotoad default to leaving a pid file in the application directory
22:46 sri makes scripting easier out of the box
22:46 sri kill -s 'USR2' `cat /home/sri/myapp/hypnotoad.pid`
22:47 sri i'm not sure how portable /var/run is
22:48 sri it's just a default anyway
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22:56 perlrocks Twitter: "It's amazing how easy zero downtime software upgrades can be with #mojolicious, tomorrow will be the day of the hypnotoad. ;) #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/9380177435951106
22:57 sri pretty much finished now, but i won't release it without a deployment recipe ;p
23:12 perlrocks Twitter: "@kraih hooray! ALL GLORY TO THE HYPNOTOAD!!! #mojolicious #hypnotoad" --skaurus http://twitter.com/skaurus/status/9384184468480000
23:16 janus :)
23:17 phillipadsmith hypnotoad?
23:17 * phillipadsmith needs to catch-up, clearly
23:19 phillipadsmith ah, cultural referneces... have to get me one of those "cultural" things one of these days. :)
23:19 janus i think pid file in app dir is even better than in /var/run
23:20 janus i tend to deploy in customer space, without touching the system too much
23:22 janus ALL HYPNO TO THE GLORYTOAD!
23:22 sri :D
23:22 sri yea, i deploy the same way
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