Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-12-11

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Time Nick Message
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01:24 sri yko: patch looks good
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01:41 GitHub103 mojo: master Yaroslav Korshak * e02deb3 (2 files in 2 dirs): extend Mojo::URL behavior
01:41 GitHub103 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * f6b7356 (2 files in 2 dirs): cleanup
01:41 GitHub103 mojo: master commits 85ca9f5...f6b7356 - http://bit.ly/gbuCjE
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01:43 sri yko++
02:11 sri think i'll keep stacktraces
02:58 sri i'm going to embed jquery in Mojolicious::Static
02:59 sri i don't think anyone is building web apps without it anymore
03:02 crab (a) lots of people are, but (b) never mind them, why bother to embed? doesn't everyone link to the CDN copies of jquery.min.js?
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03:08 marty I'm using jquery (and the UI) and I link to the CDN
03:16 crab if you embed, then upgrading etc. will become more painful.
03:21 sri huh?
03:21 sri it's just a fallback
03:21 sri you can still just default to CDN
03:22 sri but i need jquery for builtin stuff
03:23 sri and everything builtin needs to work offline
03:24 crab where will it (jquery.js) be?
03:24 sri /js/jquery.js
03:24 sri embedded though
03:24 sri so your file would always overload it
03:25 crab oh, fine then
03:25 sri i've done the same for favicon.ico
03:26 marty As long as you can override it with the CDN I don't see a down side to it.  Plus, it might be usefull for testing and dev
03:26 sri whats more important is that it can be used for builtin stuff
03:27 sri like the exception template
03:27 marty Ahhh, ya.
03:29 marty Having it embeded also makes it just that much easier to get started.  A nice combination with the "no dependancies" thing.
03:29 sri i'll add a recipe for CDN fallback code i guess
03:34 crab can't wait to see the new exception template.
03:35 * crab runs around in circles, biting his tail
03:36 sri still needs quite a bit of work
03:37 crab will there be a "fix this and keep going" button? :-)
03:37 sri but i don't get tired of looking at it :)
03:38 sri crab: that would be a very welcome patch ;p
03:39 sri oh, sloccount includes DATA sections :S
03:39 sri mojolicious just grew by 5000 lines
03:39 sri (images are base64 encoded)
03:41 sri not using many images though, just favicon and a logo
03:42 sri after implementing Mojo::DOM my css fu is really strong :D
03:42 marty Are you building some sort of app on top of ML?
03:42 crab marty: the exception template
03:43 crab marty: http://bit.ly/e3OGg0
03:43 marty looking....
03:43 marty ahhh ok.  Gotcha.   I think I find some good use for that.  :)
03:44 sri thats what mojolicious will show you for errors in the future
03:44 omega sri: seen http://html5boilerplate.com/?
03:44 omega it has good fallback for jq etc
03:44 marty suuuuweeeeet.
03:44 marty <----- Loves Mojolicious!
03:44 sri omega: seen it, but all the javascript masters ranted about it
03:45 sri :)
03:53 omega ok
03:53 omega didn't know that
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04:32 tempire I like the idea of stack traces.
04:33 tempire I can't think of a time when I've used them in a web app, though.
04:35 crab hi tempire.
04:35 tempire hello
04:49 sri i usually just need them when a 3rd party module breaks
04:50 sri looking for where my code connects to that module
04:51 sri thats about it for actual web apps
04:51 sri the only real downside of having them would be $SIG{__DIE__}
04:52 sri perl signal handling real sucks
04:52 sri *really
04:55 sri oh well, stacktraces can stay
04:56 sri on to deciding what information actually needs to be shown on the exception template
04:57 crab i think there should be an inspirational quote
04:57 sri sounds sensible
04:57 sri which one?
04:59 crab the results for "inspirational quotes web service" on google are very disappointing.
06:33 sri wonder if i should include information like @INC
06:33 sri maybe in the last block, listing perl and mojolicious versions, time, operating system, environment and stuff
06:34 crab expanded by default or not?
06:34 sri unsure
06:40 sri i have a really cool solution for stacktraces now
06:41 sri now i need to organize all the normal information
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08:29 perlrocks Twitter: "TO THE #MOJOLICIOUS!" --tempiretech http://twitter.com/tempirete​ch/status/13510673975742464
08:34 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious - Web framework for Perl http://www.findbestopensour​ce.com/product/mojolicious # opensource" (id) --bestopensource http://twitter.com/bestopenso​urce/status/13511817905049600
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08:54 MojoGuest703 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (91 hits)
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10:21 sri the next exception template feature is really fun
10:22 sri you can look inside templates
10:22 sri to see the actual generated perl code
10:23 sri the first line is really scary though xD
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10:35 yko Oo
10:35 yko sri: btw i like stack traces
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10:43 crab i like stack traces too
10:45 sri everybody likes them, but nobody knows what to use them for :)
10:46 crab i show them to my daughter sometimes
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10:57 yko lol
10:58 yko sri: i described problem which stack traces should solve yesterday
10:58 yko url_for('undefined route name') will throw error and point to M9s::Controller
10:58 crab what problem?
10:58 crab ah
10:59 yko ye
10:59 yko and then grep "undefined route name" ... to find where it came from
10:59 yko usually it's just a typo in route name :)
11:08 nuclon sri: btw, yko wrote a test for Mojo::Server::PSGI headers issue
11:09 yko i wrote it aspecially for you to check if it's a really test or just another fake :D
11:09 nuclon and, btw, sometimes backtraces are good when you should know where function was called from
11:11 nuclon at least
11:17 sri yay it works
11:18 sri for template exceptions you can now tap on code context and it will show you the compiled perl code :)
11:19 yko :)
11:22 sri ok, design work is done, just need to collect information now
11:24 sri hmm, maybe exceptions are too fun now :S
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11:27 sri ok, tested in safari, chrome and firefox
11:31 sri it will look horrible in internet explorer, but thats intentional ;p
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11:33 moritz "we only support browsers" :-)
11:39 sri :)
11:58 nuclon sri: I've just sent a pull request with the testcase
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12:06 nuclon yko: so it looks like real test :)
12:06 yko than you can lobby it :)
12:17 sri think i can commit the new template later today, almost done :D
12:26 * crab types "git pull" and waits with hand poised over the enter key
12:28 sri ok, everything done, just cleanup now :)
12:29 * nuclon typing "sudo cpanm https://github.com/kraih/mojo/tarball/master"
12:30 crab what!
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12:31 crab cpanm can install from random tarballs like that? i never knew.
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12:31 metaperl tberes a mojo reddit post - http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/ejuqd​/mojolicious_web_framework_a_next_generation_web/
12:32 nuclon crab: yep, it can
12:32 nuclon $ sudo cpanm https://github.com/kraih/mojo/tarball/master
12:32 nuclon --> Working on https://github.com/kraih/mojo/tarball/master
12:32 nuclon Fetching https://github.com/kraih/mojo/tarball/master ... OK
12:32 nuclon Configuring kraih-mojo-f6b7356 ... OK
12:32 nuclon Building and testing https://github.com/kraih/mojo/tarball/master ... OK
12:32 nuclon Successfully installed https://github.com/kraih/mojo/tarball/master
12:32 nuclon was kicked by sri: nuclon
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12:33 * nuclon is writing on board: "I'll use pastebin services..." :)
12:33 sri thats a good idea
12:34 sri metaperl: thanks
12:34 metaperl I'm going to answer my own query about push-style templating with Mojo
12:35 nuclon crab: even better way: wget --no-check-certificate -O - http://cpanmin.us | sudo perl - --self-upgrade https://github.com/kraih/mojo/tarball/master
12:43 crab nuclon: geez.
12:43 crab metaperl: what is push-style templating?
12:44 crab metaperl: also, mojo has a PSGI adapter and works fine with plack
12:44 yko metaperl: single file mode means Mojolicious::Lite app, try mojo generate lite_app test; vim test
12:45 sri see growing guide
12:45 yko oh. yes. Grow up with Mojo!
12:52 metaperl crab: push-style templating is discussed in perl context here - http://www.perlmonks.org/?node_id=674225   ... and the original paper on it is here - http://www.cs.usfca.edu/~par​rt/papers/mvc.templates.pdf
12:52 metaperl I answered my own question about push-style templating and mojo
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13:01 su-bzero_ gihub has a not valid certificate?
13:02 crab metaperl: i'm not sure i understand. do you know the "mustache" templating thing? would you call that push or pull?
13:05 metaperl crab: i've never heard of the mustache template system. link?
13:05 crab http://mustache.github.com/mustache.5.html
13:07 crab oh. now that i read your reddit response to yourself, i understand better. i predict that you would call mustache push.
13:08 crab seems a bit of a shaky distinction in this case, to be honest.
13:09 nuclon su-bzero_: at least wget thinks so: ERROR: certificate common name `*.github.com' doesn't match requested host name `github.com'.
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13:12 GitHub35 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 3cd4465 (13 files in 6 dirs): added new exception template and a few more goodies - http://bit.ly/frDKZ5
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13:12 sri :D
13:12 sri enjoy
13:12 crab whee
13:13 crab so i just have to delete my own exception.html.ep and the new one will be used, right?
13:14 sri try a template error and click on black box, really fun
13:14 sri crab: yes
13:14 sri *+the
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13:16 crab i just get a blank page
13:16 sri then you are doing something wrong
13:17 crab i put % die "x\n"; at the end of one of my templates
13:18 crab aha. it can't find exception.html.ep
13:18 perlrocks Twitter: "Added pretty new exception template and a few more goodies to #mojolicious, enjoy! http://bit.ly/gWkUMR" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/13583360131600384
13:18 sri crab: that error is intentional
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13:19 su-bzero_ Need to generate new exception.html.ep?
13:19 sri no
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13:20 su-bzero_ Nice.
13:20 sri you need to not have one
13:20 ajgb sri: what's the schedule for releasing 0.999960?
13:20 * yko presses Enter
13:21 sri ajgb: no schedule, 1.0 around christmas
13:21 ajgb so you will skip 0.999960?
13:21 crab sri: i don't understand, what is intentional?
13:22 crab (i got it working now, i think. i had an old TagHelpers.pm in my private lib dir)
13:22 ajgb sri: also, is there a roadmap for 1.0? or what kind of changes should we expect from 1.0?
13:23 yko ugh...
13:23 und3f sri, you even added favicon :P
13:23 crab it looks like a cloud of smoke
13:23 yko example { shift->url_for('wrong route') } => traces Carp.pm > Mojolicious/Routes/Match.pm > Mojolicious/Controller.pm > MyMojoliciousApp/Example.pm
13:24 yko should mojolicious logo be a link to http://mojolicio.us ?
13:24 crab what's the black box on top?
13:25 sri use "% die "x";"
13:25 sri your die "x\n" broke something
13:25 crab aha. now it all makes more sense.
13:26 crab delightful.
13:26 sri click on it
13:26 sri you get the actual perl code
13:26 crab wow
13:27 sri you can also click on the trace and more fields
13:29 yko sri++
13:30 su-bzero_ \'description\' => \'Description\', a little sucky. Withou \ it could be more readable.
13:31 su-bzero_ Hm...
13:31 su-bzero_ I have an old exception.html.ep ;))
13:31 su-bzero_ That is the problem.
13:32 su-bzero_ It will be better to have one key/value per line for Stash:
13:33 sri no it won't
13:33 su-bzero_ Yes, it will.
13:33 su-bzero_ Indeed.
13:33 sri if you think you can improve it make a mockup and show us
13:34 su-bzero_ ;)
13:35 su-bzero_ Should I have something when clicking on Trace?
13:35 su-bzero_ I get nothing.
13:35 nuclon sri: so next step is publishing to CPAN? :)
13:36 sri then a trace might not be possible
13:39 metaperl crab: thanks for the link to mustache. i'm still evaluating it per my criteria (http://bit.ly/bXaYt7) but I'm already wondering how easy creating tables with alternating background color rows would be ... or a table with three different background colors
13:39 sri nuclon: nope, next step is bug fixing
13:41 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious Web Framework - A next generation web framework for the Perl programming  http://bit.ly/giTkCO http://bit.ly/hi477j [6 comments]" --reddit_prog_hot http://twitter.com/reddit_prog​_hot/status/13589166944165888
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14:24 GitHub192 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 3f0b598 (2 files in 2 dirs): made Mojo::Exception quite a bit smarter - http://bit.ly/hxkenX
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14:25 sri that should solve most of the problems
14:28 sri yko: wow, thats a very ugly test
14:29 yko what? i don't know any tests
14:29 sri nuclon sent a pull request for your psgi test
14:29 sri dumper and stuff, that goes a little too far
14:30 yko dumper? damn
14:30 sri hmm, the patch is just ugly
14:30 yko just thor it out
14:30 yko i din't send you any pull requests, remember?
14:32 yko i don't know about which dmper you are talking about, but actually i wrote that patch only to show nuclon the way and i was hopeing nuclon can adopt that
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14:46 GitHub136 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 4b5f238 (2 files in 2 dirs): added test - http://bit.ly/fvldGI
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14:46 sri thats more what i expected
14:49 yko now i understand. i forget about helloworld as default application
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15:03 GitHub98 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 74f1b81 (1 files in 1 dirs): improved exception template a bit - http://bit.ly/g1anbl
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15:05 MojoGuest687 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (93 hits)
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15:11 perlrocks Twitter: "And this is how all errors in #mojolicious will look from now on. :) http://twitpic.com/3eyvhr/full #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/13611891066675200
15:14 perlrocks Twitter: "You can even look at the raw #perl code of your templates, just tap on the black box. :) http://twitpic.com/3eywlw/full #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/13612648822210560
15:16 sri hmm, nobody said a word about the black logo :/
15:16 omega the favicon?
15:17 omega didn't notice it
15:18 perlrocks Twitter: "And don't forget to delete your old exception templates! ;) #perl #mojolicious" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/13613712304766977
15:19 sri the normal logo at the bottom of the page
15:20 omega its a twitpic?
15:20 omega can't see the bottom?
15:23 sri no on the real page
15:23 sri doesn't anybody upgrade? :S
15:23 omega no, not yet :)
15:23 omega just got home from 5h on the golf course
15:23 omega time for food :p
15:23 yko sri: i said
15:24 yko it should point to mojolicio.us :D
15:25 sri http://twitpic.com/3ez0cx/full
15:25 sri not sure
15:26 yko why no?
15:26 sri it's a marketing site
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15:26 sri and they are obviously already users
15:27 nuclon sri: I have small question, why don't you check cookie values in your test?
15:27 sri because i don't care
15:27 nuclon sweet
15:27 yko trace expands little bit slow, but it can be because of high load of my pc
15:27 perlrocks Twitter: "# Gettext # в отрыве от mojolicious http://j.mp/efoJh6" (cs) --shoorick77 http://twitter.com/shoorick​77/status/13615888737501184
15:27 sri the test was just show how it should be done
15:30 sri fixing exceptions is quite a bit more important atm
15:49 sri oh i forgot to answer the 1.0 question earlier :S
15:50 sri the roadmap is down to cleanup work now
15:50 sri a welcome page for new apps, thats about it
15:52 sri i should have waited with the commit, weekend is always bad :S
15:53 marty Is there a way to force the template include into "no_escape" mode?  <%= include $block; %>  (dont escape $block)
15:56 sri that question didn't make sense
15:56 marty My appologies.  Let me try again....
15:59 marty In my template I have <%= include $block; %>.   $block has some quotes in it.   When the block is expanded the quotes are replaced with &quot;    How can I override that behavior?
16:00 sri <%==
16:00 sri ?
16:02 marty I'll go try that and report back.
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16:39 perlrocks Twitter: "New template Exception # mojolicious - gives even like debug code:) # perl http://twitpic.com/3eyvhr/full" (pt) --garu_rj http://twitter.com/garu_rj​/status/13633939998507008
16:44 garu it should read "makes you even enjoy debugging code", but okay :P
16:44 garu sri++
16:45 sri :)
16:46 garu sri: this translator is very creepy sometimes... what engine are you using?
16:46 sri google
16:46 garu oh, that explains it
16:46 garu better than nothing though :)
16:46 sri especially japanese is hilarious
16:46 su-bzero <pre> Yes, <pre>. ;) Nice.
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17:17 Akron So - the mojo-cloud in the logo turns orange, when there's an update and red, when there's a critical update?
17:18 sri haha
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17:18 Akron That's a "no"???
17:18 sri "mojo version" already does that :)
17:19 Akron What does Mojo Version?
17:22 yko checks if your version of mojo is outdated on cpan
17:23 yko just try "mojo version"
17:24 chansen I can read IRC conversions on IOS4.2 using dev.xantus.org but I can't submit/enter any messages
17:25 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: And this is how all errors in #mojolicious will look from now on. :) http://twitpic.com/3eyvhr/full #perl" --perl_twitch http://twitter.com/perl_twit​ch/status/13645476360359936
17:25 sri chansen: known safari glitch
17:25 Akron yko: Ah - seems to me, that I always did that with a recent version. ;)
17:25 chansen sri: ok
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17:39 Akron sri: The line-highlight in the code snippet should be a little bit more distinctive, I think. (And you could make the logo 8-bit PNG alpha with 128 colörs to make it smaller.)
17:40 Akron sri: But - I really love the exceptions! :)
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18:47 crab sri: i did say something about the logo: it looks like a cloud of smoke.
18:48 sri lets call it smoky
18:48 sri the white version is called fluffy :)
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20:10 GitHub79 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 37fcc51 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/dUHna6
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20:36 MojoGuest960 From: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1277067 (96 hits)
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21:07 sri i'm starting to really like indented perl lines in templates
21:08 yko example?
21:08 sri few mins
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21:20 GitHub55 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 28668f6 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/e5vZxu
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21:20 sri yko: thats what i meant
21:21 sri especially for conditionals and loops
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22:38 yko oh... sri that's nice
22:39 yko i'm dreaming about teach perltidy that syntax :)
22:40 sri lol, that would be crazy
22:40 yko ye
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23:18 tempire these exceptions are the hot shizzle.
23:18 tempire I don't know how I feel about black cloud, though.
23:18 tempire I liked the white cloud that rhaen used in his favicon blog post.
23:24 tempire http://empireenterprises.com/images/cloud.jpg
23:25 perlrocks Twitter: "The #mojolicious exception pages are so nice, I wish I had more errors in my code so I would see them more often." --tempiretech http://twitter.com/tempirete​ch/status/13736259847462912
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