Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2010-12-14

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00:13 GitHub140 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * cd072a2 (2 files in 2 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/ijEq0M
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00:31 perlrocks Twitter: "For those wondering, the new #mojolicious debug screen requires a #html5 capable browser, as in Chrome, Safari 5 and Firefox 4. #perl" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/14477540160704512
00:34 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: For those wondering, the new #mojolicious debug screen requires a #html5 capable browser, as in Chrome, Safari 5 and Firefox  ..." --j3nnn1 http://twitter.com/j3nnn1/status/14478324583628800
00:37 perlrocks Twitter: "Want to try the latest #mojolicious features? Use this oneliner. #perl "curl -L cpanmin.us | perl - http://latest.mojolicio.us"" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/14478946464694272
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00:40 jdixon hi sri
00:40 * sri waves
00:40 jdixon nice work on the exception template
00:41 sri thanks
00:41 jdixon has anyone else noticed "daemon --reload" not actually reloading?
00:41 sri not that i know of
00:41 jdixon M::L
00:41 jdixon k
00:42 marty Is the exception template just supposed to show up in your browser screen if you have an exception?
00:42 jdixon oh that reminds me
00:42 marty My --reload has been working today and I'm on the latest git version
00:42 jdixon sri: is there any way to "overload" the exception route?
00:43 sri multiple
00:43 sri there is no route though
00:43 jdixon is there a guide/recommendation anywhere?
00:43 sri it's Mojolicious::Controller::render_exception
00:44 sri thats rather advanced stuff and not in the guides yet
00:44 jdixon k
00:48 perlrocks Twitter: "@chromatic_x I didn't get to optimize #catalyst for fun, #mojolicious pretty much shows how i would have done it though. ;)" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/14481778232262656
00:48 sri hmm, there could actually be a --reload bug
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01:11 jdixon sri: orly
01:17 sri it's quite complicated
01:30 sri ok, this is the weirdest bug ever
01:35 sri damn...
01:35 sri i'm just stupid
01:35 jdixon ?
01:36 sri hilarious
01:36 sri i was just getting exceptions from an old app
01:37 sri turns out i accidentally installed it into some lib dir and the reloader picked it up
01:38 sri jdixon: the reloader works flawless
01:39 jdixon k
01:39 jdixon not sure why it's not for me then
01:39 sri it leaks as usual, but thats ok
01:40 jdixon it doesn't pick up css/template/static changes
01:40 jdixon I used to see mongodb reconnects for every page load
01:40 jdixon no more
01:40 jdixon weird
01:41 jdixon interesting
01:41 sri didn't you say lite app?
01:41 jdixon yes
01:41 sri inlined files?
01:42 jdixon AutoCommit
01:42 jdixon disabling AutoCommit (mysql) "fixes" it
01:43 sri that makes no sense at all to me
01:43 jdixon me neither
01:43 jdixon but if I reenable AutoCommit, it doesn't reload
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01:46 GitHub52 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * b41d35f (1 files in 1 dirs): prevent exceptions from being cached - http://bit.ly/dUO50C
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02:07 GitHub86 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 9e0172c (7 files in 5 dirs): default to lazy html5 style - http://bit.ly/hCSSsL
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02:25 GitHub77 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 33314b8 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/hlgqCC
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02:32 perlrocks Twitter: "fixed # mojolicious scaffold plugin installation http://bit.ly/i7DhiQ" (de) --fwever http://twitter.com/fwever/status/14507918707654657
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05:38 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: For those wondering, the new #mojolicious debug screen requires a #html5 capable browser, as in Chrome, Safari 5 and Firefox  ..." --insurgentsoft http://twitter.com/insurgents​oft/status/14554804298715136
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07:14 perlrocks Twitter: "22nd Mojolicious:: Lite: If you have a good time really simple web | gihyo.jp ... 技術評論社 http://bit.ly/hwrVh3" (ja) --wPerlnews http://twitter.com/wPerlnew​s/status/14578851283734528
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07:51 Christian morning
07:56 marcus yes
07:56 marty Good morning Christian
08:02 marty Has anyone had any luck using plugins (that call helpers) in a non-lite app?
08:03 marcus sri: Updated proxy to use async.
08:03 marcus marty: not tried.
08:03 marty Man-o-man, I'm trying to get my head around the plugin architecture and I'm failing miserably.
08:03 marty Actually I am close, but the first 80% is easy and the last 80% is hard.  Wakka Wakka Wakka  :)
08:04 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious-Plugin-Proxy 0.2 by Marcus Ramberg - http://frepan.64p.org/~mramberg​/Mojolicious-Plugin-Proxy-0.2/" --cpan_new http://twitter.com/cpan_ne​w/status/14591571424968704
08:05 marcus sri: Now with async support.
08:05 marty marcus*  I got a "not found" when I click the link
08:07 marcus marty:  complain to @cpan_new =)
08:07 marty :)
08:08 sri marcus++
08:11 DaTa marcus: does it still do $c->client->get ? i guess it should do $c->client->$whatever_the_o​riginal_request_method_was ;)
08:13 marcus DaTa: I could add an option for that
08:13 marcus there's a option to use query parameters from the original request as well.
08:25 marty OMG!!!!  I got it.  Woo hooo.   I can now load pluigs and call helpers.   Going to go write up the tutorial right now while it's still fresh.  Yowzer!
08:33 sri \o/
08:34 sri and i'm still unsure if Mojolicious::Plugin::TagHelpers should generate HTML5 or XHTML5 tags
08:36 sri <br> vs <br />
08:36 marty That's a tough one.  Personally I am not a big fan of the XHTML 4.x spec.  But maybe in v5 it's more important/usable/etc...
08:36 sri <div id=foo> vs <div id="foo">
08:36 marty I've read passionate opinions on both sides.  I'm not sure which is the best
08:36 sri <input selected> vs <input selected="selected">
08:37 marty <--- Always encloses html parameters in quotes.
08:37 marty But I rarely do <br />
08:37 sri i hate <br /> with a passion
08:38 sri <input selected="selected"> is horrible too
08:39 marty In my HTML5 book it shows quotes around the params  :(
08:39 sri the spec is mixed
08:39 marty as in <input selected="selected"> rather than <input selected=selected>
08:39 sri quotes for non alphanumerics
08:39 sri nono
08:39 sri empty attribute
08:40 marty If mixed it be, then err on the side of laziness.  Larry would be proud.  :)
08:40 sri <input checked type=checkbox>
08:40 marty Ahhh ok.  That makes sense.
08:40 sri i like how that looks
08:41 sri Mojo::DOM will keep generating valid xml i guess, since it has too many uses
08:41 marty so <input selected=selected> and <input selected="">
08:41 sri but unsure about taghelpers
08:41 sri umm no
08:41 sri <input selected> and <input selected="selected">
08:42 marty Ahhh, go it
08:42 sri :)
08:42 marty s/go/got/
08:43 yko sri, dont touch Mojo::DOM! :))
08:43 yko hehehe
08:46 sri don't worry ;p
08:47 sri the big question is really if we should generate clean html5
08:48 yko is a 'global switcher' an option?
08:48 sri nope
08:48 yko -_-
08:48 yko but i understand
08:49 yko i think yes
08:49 sri the big question is basically if we want to be backwards compatible with html4 or xhtml :)
08:49 yko mojolisious is modern framework :)
08:49 yko nope! :)
08:49 yko hehehe
08:49 sri nonono
08:49 sri we *can* stay backwards compatible to one of them ;p
08:50 sri html4 is more similar to plain html5
08:50 sri html5 pretty much allows everything
08:51 sri <br /> is valid html5, just ugly
08:51 yko hmm. i like /> actually
08:51 sri :S
08:51 yko it's logic
08:52 yko well, everyone has his own preferences, ye?
08:52 yko i think you can just consider options and make decision which is most pleasant to you
08:53 yko in the end you anyway will do in that way :p
08:53 sri for myself the choice is made
08:53 sri least typing required
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08:53 sri but for the helpers i might go back to xml compatibility
08:54 yko :) then our discussion has theoretical nature
08:54 sri i'm hoping for feedback here ;p
08:54 yko ye, that's what i'm saing:  theoretical nature :)))
08:54 yko joke.
08:55 * sri doesn't get it :(
08:55 yko nevermind, those russians who even didn't learn english properly... :)
08:56 yko actually, i think most important thing is that html code rendered by helpers could be rendered by browsers properly
08:56 yko not 'somebody likes or not'
08:58 su-bzero_ Mojo::DOM->new('xml') ;))
09:06 marty I just posted a draft of the helpers tutorial on the google groups board.   Comments welcome
09:07 sri add it to the wiki
09:07 marty Persoanlly I like the idea of going the HTML5 route and not paying to much attention to the HTML 4
09:07 sri xhtml actually
09:07 marty I wanted to get feedback first in case I have bad info in there  Do you think it's better to just put it on the wiki first and have people edit it?
09:07 sri we would be breaking xhtml
09:08 sri i think wiki is best, people will just correct stuff
09:08 sri list is fine too for feedback though
09:08 marty Ok.
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09:35 GitHub77 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * c10b856 (3 files in 3 dirs): let tag helpers generate xml compatible tags (for now) - http://bit.ly/eCxWJP
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09:44 sri marty: the second example is not so good
09:44 marty I thought so.   It works but it felt hacky
09:45 sri $self->plugin('MyApp::Helpers');
09:46 sri that should work just fine
09:46 sri <%= mypluginhelper %> should also just work
09:46 marty Ok.  Lemme check and I'll fix it
09:52 marty Yep, guess what.  It works Perfectly!  Thank you sri, I'l go update the wiki right now..
09:52 sri :)
09:54 sri hmm, the oreilly html5 book mixes <br /> and <br> all the time
09:59 moritz that doesn't make it good style
09:59 sri html5 for web designers sticks to <br>
09:59 sri both just seem to agree on quoting attribute values all the time
10:00 sri moritz: yea, but it tells us that we are better off ignoring the question
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11:42 GitHub64 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 2f5eb73 (6 files in 4 dirs): fixed multiple --reload related leaks and reduced overall memory usage - http://bit.ly/i2678R
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11:43 sri --reload leaking should be barely noticeable now, if at all
11:55 crab i hate quoting attribute values all the time
12:03 yko where i can set MOJO_MAX_MESSAGE_SIZE? startup() is ok or too late?
12:03 sri should be fine
12:03 yko thx
12:04 sri but as usual, the earlier you set env vars the better
12:05 yko well, i think script/myapp is a good place to set own defaults
12:08 yko btw, is it a good idea to check Content-Length for max_message_size right after headers parsed first time?
12:09 sri ?
12:10 sri you mean the actual header value?
12:10 marcus if you build it, he will come.
12:10 sri and whats first time?
12:11 sri guess that could be done, patch welcome
12:12 yko sri: ok, i just want to be sure if you approve this idea
12:13 sri will be interestign to see how you test that
12:14 yko :)))
12:14 yko i just want to know if you wouldnt mind. because if you do there's no sense to investigate at all
12:15 yko but thank you for reminding me about tests
12:15 sri the current limit affects headers too, guess you can use that fact for tests
12:16 sri add a big header or so
12:16 sri and then use the small window to trigger both cases
12:16 yko you mean that limit affect size of whole message and headers contain info only about body size?
12:16 sri right
12:17 yko hmm. small window?
12:17 sri where the old limit triggers but not yours
12:17 sri and then trigger yours
12:17 sri so you can test both
12:17 yko ok
12:18 yko anyway, im not going to do that right now. as usually
12:18 sri ...
12:19 marcus reeder for mac is pretty shiny
12:19 sri yea, i deleted nnw as soon as i used it the first time
12:37 su-bzero_ sri: What about integration of resourceful_routes plugin into Mojolicous::Routes directly?
12:37 sri su-bzero_: unlikely
12:38 yko su-bzero_:  keep your hands out M9s::Routes!!
12:38 yko :D
12:38 su-bzero_ My hands are clean!
12:39 su-bzero_ But so loooong. ;)
12:39 sri no best practices have emerged yet, that would be a requirement
12:39 yko sri++
12:39 yko su-bzero_: isn't plugin a good solution?
12:41 su-bzero_ yko: Need to load plugin first. Superflous lines...
12:42 yko just a single line of code :p
12:49 perlrocks Twitter: "Really starting to like this style of embedding #perl into #mojolicious templates. http://twitpic.com/3famlf/full" --kraih http://twitter.com/kraih/status/14663268127735808
13:00 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @kraih: Really starting to like this style of embedding #perl into #mojolicious templates. http://twitpic.com/3famlf/full" --j3nnn1 http://twitter.com/j3nnn1/status/14665947147149312
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14:24 perlrocks Twitter: "added "except" and "only" to # mojolicious resourceful routes plugin http://bit.ly/eNyzBA" (de) --fwever http://twitter.com/fwever/status/14687088314159104
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14:49 perlrocks Twitter: "mod_perl + Plack + Mojolicious:: Lite in HelloWorld.pm Sometimes they're called ... I have access to the same conditions, PSGI instead returned the file is called Congratulations. Cripes!" (ja) --tyoshii716 http://twitter.com/tyoshii7​16/status/14693346572242945
14:49 perlrocks Twitter: "RT @ tyoshii716: mod_perl + Plack + Mojolicious:: Lite in HelloWorld.pm sometimes called ... but I would have been accessible under the same conditions, PSGI instead returned the file is called Congratulations. Cripes!" (ja) --AE_PerlIsm http://twitter.com/AE_PerlI​sm/status/14693353572532224
14:50 perlrocks Twitter: "RT! Tyoshii716: mod_perl + Plack + Mojolicious:: Lite in HelloWorld.pm sometimes called ... but I would have been accessible under the same conditions, PSGI instead returned the file is called Congratulations. Cripes!" (ja) --perlism http://twitter.com/perlism​/status/14693614793789440
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15:29 GitHub167 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 41be653 (1 files in 1 dirs): show home directory on debug screen - http://bit.ly/dZ0gs9
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15:45 tempire_ I vote for <br />
15:46 tempire_ and <input type="quotes" />
15:46 tempire_ Regarding the "", I've had issues, from time to time, not using quotes.
15:46 tempire_ Some browsers get funky at unexpected times.
15:47 tempire_ Regarding />, it makes sense to close the tag.  And it's valid xml, which is more likely to be compatible with other xml tools.
15:48 tempire_ It is more typing...but if it's auto generated, who cares?
15:48 tempire_ Better to generate something that's more widely compatible.
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16:07 Christian cu all
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17:48 moritz what's the (or a) best way to have a reusable component that I can include in different pages? I need template + controller, just including a template isn't enough
17:54 moritz or asked another way, how can I call back into a route from within a template?
17:54 yko why not to use helper?
17:55 yko i mean your own custom helper, that generates some content
17:55 moritz I don't know, that's why I'm asking?
17:55 moritz (fwiw, the application is something like a shopping cart)
17:56 yko https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/l​ib/Mojolicious/Guides/Rendering.pod#Helpers
17:56 yko oh no
17:57 yko https://github.com/kraih/mojo/blob/master/lib/M​ojolicious/Guides/Rendering.pod#Adding_Helpers
17:57 yko ^--- this one
17:57 josh moritz, i use a controller mix-in with an include'd template
17:57 josh sub some_controller_method { $_[0]->part_one; $_[0]->render } and then in the template %= include 'part_two'
17:59 josh a helper would have to return a string, which means you have to use render_inline on your template
17:59 moritz does that hurt in some way?
17:59 moritz that's what i want anyway
18:00 josh no, but it means you're doing things like argument parsing inside the helper... where-as include('template', stash_key => 'val') will put things right into the stash for you
18:00 moritz so far I don't plan to add arguments to it
18:00 josh oh and dont forget to wrap the return of render_inline in a bytestream
18:01 josh return b($c->render_inline('mytemplate', %stash_values))
18:01 moritz thanks josh and yko
18:01 * moritz needs to get to a food shop before they close for the night
18:10 marcus swipe gestures in reeder istheshit
18:11 josh what reader is that
18:14 marcus josh: reeder for mac
18:15 josh oh :x out of my sphere of influence
18:18 marcus too bad for you :)
18:19 josh i have one of those hand-held readers
18:19 josh with eink
18:19 josh its nice but it has no gestures ;)
18:30 yko jedi don't need readers, they have jedi gestures :p
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18:31 * marcus flips yko a rude gesture
18:31 josh i thought jedi had holocrons
18:32 marcus josh: I have one of those readers too
18:32 marcus mine is called a kindle
18:32 marcus they are great for books.
18:32 josh yeah i agree, great for books
18:32 josh mine is a first-gen sony reader
18:33 josh its aging, but by the time i feel like buying a new one they will be $100 and cook me breakfast.
18:33 marcus my latest kindle was like $100
18:33 josh yeah so they're half way there ;)
18:34 josh my reader was about $280
18:34 marcus yeah, I don't plan on trying to eat it
18:34 marcus I suspect eink screens aren't tasty
18:34 josh normally im not an early adopter, but i get really excited about reading
18:34 marcus this is actually my second kindle
18:34 marcus I'm normally an early adopter
18:34 marcus aka gadget freak
18:34 josh realy... what happened to the first one?
18:34 marcus I gave it to a coworker.
18:35 marcus it only had network in the usa
18:35 josh my reader has problems sometimes... the screen starts to fade if i hold it at the wrong angle
18:35 marcus also, the new one is 30% faster, smaller and has way better contrast
18:35 josh yeah thats why i never bought a kindle, im not in the usa and it didnt seem worth it to pay for that tech if i cant use it
18:35 marcus you can buy them with wifi only now
18:35 marcus or 3g that works in europe
18:35 josh ah thats good
18:35 josh theyve finally learned! ;)
18:36 marcus yeah. They've been selling a lot of devices this year
18:36 marcus I just wish book publishers would stop insisting on drm
18:37 josh yeah :|
18:37 josh luckily most of the popular formats are hacked
18:37 josh i usually buy the books with drm and immediately un-drm them... no sense storing files i won't be able to use in the future.
18:37 marcus yeah, but I can stop myself from thinking I am buying a shitload of books that are locked to a single device.
18:38 marcus I can't be bothered. The kindle downloads books directly from the kindle store
18:38 marcus I rarely connect it to a computer
18:38 josh oh yeah thats pretty nice
18:38 josh but it does bug me that i can't normally buy ebooks from amazon
18:38 josh since i dont have a kindle
18:38 marcus I love how these things have weeks of battery time too
18:38 marcus you can?
18:39 marcus they have an iphone app, and a desktop app
18:39 josh but now they have the kindle for pc, so i can ;)
18:39 marcus mm
18:39 josh but i have to remove the drm first
18:39 marcus :D
18:39 marcus It would have been better if they just used epub with their own custom drm
18:39 josh but yeah battery life and readability more than make up for no color
18:39 marcus like the rest of the business.
18:40 josh i usually get 2 weeks on a full charge, and thats with daily reading of about 50 pages or so
18:40 marcus hmm, removing kindle drm isn't that hard - http://stackoverflow.org/wiki/​Removing_DRM_from_Kindle_books
18:40 josh i think amazons format is pdb, which is an old 'standard' from before epub
18:41 josh yeah its pretty easy ;)
18:41 und3f sri, seems like another bug in tls support, this time on client side
18:41 und3f sri, got tests
18:41 und3f sri, http://pastebin.ca/2019593
18:51 su-bzero_ BUG!
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20:06 marcus FTZR
20:32 marcus marty:  are you sure you shouldn't be doing $self->plugin('MyApp::Helpers') in startup?
20:32 marcus rather than the whole use MyApp::Helpers and register_plugin dance
20:33 marcus re your list post
20:47 marty marcus:  Yes, you are correct.  I modifed it in the wiki and made the change.  Thank you for pointing that out
20:47 marcus \o/
20:49 stephan48 i need a permanent key store
20:49 stephan48 any idea? (simple)
20:50 stephan48 are there better ways than just writing the stuff to a file and look if the key exists?
20:58 und3f stephan48, redis
20:58 stephan48 k
20:59 und3f stephan48, also we have MojoX::Redis to work with redis
21:00 stephan48 k
21:00 stephan48 i need it for a irc bot :) caching trac rss headers so we dont get duplicated
21:00 stephan48 like it having spamming old stuff all the time
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