Camelia, the Perl 6 bug

IRC log for #mojo, 2011-01-05

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02:04 perlrocks Twitter: "Oh U, Mojolicious I finally came to 1.0. 2010/12/26 release or ー" (ja) --TokyoIncidents http://twitter.com/TokyoIncid​ents/status/22473446634033152
02:46 xantus O NO U DIDN'T
02:47 * sri is scared
02:47 xantus :)
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04:08 sri mongodb is actually quite interesting for a minimalistic orm
04:09 sri schemaless and ad-hoc queries is a killer combination
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05:09 GitHub103 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * bf524c8 (1 files in 1 dirs): updated faq - http://bit.ly/e5ByjP
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05:13 GitHub69 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * ee75874 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/ehM6Pg
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05:16 GitHub66 mojo: master Sebastian Riedel * 654f800 (1 files in 1 dirs): cleanup - http://bit.ly/f9k3uG
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06:07 sri hmm, maybe time to deprecate Mojo::JSON
06:13 tempire That's kind of sad.
06:13 tempire won't be for a while anyway.  How long before 5.14 makes it into redhat...
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06:14 sri worst case, those people have to install a small pure perl module extra
06:15 tempire I like Mojo::JSON->true
06:15 * tempire fears change
06:20 * sri likes less responsibility
06:22 tempire ah, true.
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07:07 sri then again, 5.14 is at least 10 years away and Mojo::JSON pretty much just works
07:08 sri the spec tests are pretty damn good, not much to maintain
07:08 marcus I agree.
07:08 Zaur hi
07:09 marcus hai Zaur
07:09 sri our deprecation period is usually 6 months, no need to rush anything
07:10 * sri waves
07:11 sri just bringing in the 5.10 prereq will be a total nightmare...
07:15 sri oooh, don't they release the mac app store in a few days?
07:15 marcus yeah
07:15 marcus they do
07:15 sri that should be exciting
07:16 sri can't wait for something to dethrone textmate
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07:17 perlrocks Twitter: "Mojolicious - Web framework for Perl http://www.findbestopensour​ce.com/product/mojolicious  #web-framework" --bestopensource http://twitter.com/bestopenso​urce/status/22552128488734721
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07:31 Christian good morning
07:32 zipkid Hoi
07:35 * sri waves
07:36 zipkid sri, write what?
07:36 * sri really liked the way they ended Caprica btw.
07:36 sri zipkid: documentation of course
07:36 zipkid ah, that
07:37 sri if you see something is missing or not good enough just improve it, thats why we are open source! ;)
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07:42 sri http://analyticsapp.com is not that bad aside from the price, even shows live data for the current day
07:43 sri didn't even knew google analytics provided those
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07:51 zipkid ... Class::DBI or DBIx::Class ?
07:51 zipkid or an other?
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08:22 * zipkid is trying out I18n
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08:44 zipkid Darn... Why does this i18n stuff not 'just work' ?
08:52 sri Darn... Why is that question so pointless?
08:52 zipkid indeed... if only i had errors and such...
08:53 yko sri: why deprecate Mojo::JSON?
08:53 sri yko: follow me on twitter ;p
08:54 * yko just woke up
08:55 sri zipkid: if you think you can get more out of maketext, be my guest
08:55 yko sri: oooh, well... so there still be res->json just with another module?
08:56 sri yko: you should read everything first :)
08:56 yko everything - you mean that single twit? :)
08:57 sri but the conclusion is that we don't do anything, so you might just as well have breakfast first ;)
08:57 yko ooh :))
08:57 zero-tolerance is now known as su-bzero
08:57 yko actually mojolicious is a great tool to force people update perl
08:58 sri maybe later
08:58 sri right now is not a good time to scare people
08:58 Christian how can i route to a controller in a subfolder? it is possible?
08:58 sri see routing guide
08:59 yko Christian: you mean that? http://mojolicio.us/perldoc?Mojolicious/​Guides/Routing#Route_To_Class__namespace
08:59 sri there are even multiple ways
08:59 yko ye
08:59 yko i love that :)
09:01 Christian thx for the link
09:02 zipkid the '% languages xx' part goes in the template i assume?
09:06 Christian it makes so much fun with mojo :)
09:06 sri :)
09:06 zipkid Should there be ANY logging if a language is not found?
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10:14 perlrocks Twitter: "MojoX::Authen: "Depend on and work with Mojolicious 1.0" http://bit.ly/dQ0W9X #mojolicious #perl #programming" --esskar http://twitter.com/esskar/status/22596906446225408
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10:34 sri hmm, new season of V seems better, but still quite stupid
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13:08 marcus hmm
13:08 marcus if http://vimeo.com/18424044 is to prove perl is not dead, it's kind of bad that it slows down a lot in the last few seconds :)
13:13 marty That's very kewl.  Makes Perl look like a living organism.
13:14 marty I'm sure the Perl critics will say it looks like a wart virus.  :)
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13:18 sri lol
13:24 sri very bad choice of words though... you don't try to prove that perl is not dead...
13:24 sri instead you should show how vibrant it is
13:24 moritz just make cool stuff with perl, and talk about it
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13:35 marcus agree
13:35 marcus bad vti, no cookie
13:35 marcus but great video
13:35 marcus s
13:35 marcus so good vti, have a cookie
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14:00 fibo hi all, I'm trying the hook to port a cgi:app to mojoliciuos
14:01 fibo i got an error cause there is a app->plugin->add_hook and i can't find the app method
14:01 fibo i looked in the Mojolicious.pm, it seems to be autoloaded
14:01 fibo any hint to make it work?
14:03 moritz app should be a sub, not a method
14:03 moritz so if you declare a new package, the sub might not be found anymore
14:04 moritz but without seeing any code that's just guessing in the dark
14:05 fibo https://github.com/kraih/mojo​/wiki/Porting-CGI-Application
14:06 moritz if you run that code without any prelude, you'll surely get some errors
14:06 fibo looking at mojolicious.pm it seems that app is autoloaded but i'm not sure
14:06 moritz you have to use Mojolicious; first
14:06 fibo i did
14:06 moritz so, what's the code you ran?
14:07 fibo the code i found in the link i pasted, but of course i putted use Mojolicious; before
14:07 fibo and i get Can't locate object methos "plugins" via package "app"
14:08 moritz and was "use Mojolicious;" the only thing you added?
14:12 crab $self->app->...
14:12 moritz ah, the sub form of app() only seems to work if you use Mojolicious::Lite
14:14 sri learning mojolicious might be a good idea before starting to port something
14:14 sri may i suggest http://mojolicio.us/perldoc
14:15 sri the porting snippet will make a lot more sense after reading the documentation
14:17 sri the hook code is out of context and requires a lite app
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14:28 fibo yep, i red the doc  .. it was a first reading from the helloword example
14:29 fibo i have this cgi::app where i work and i thougt to just try, if it works
14:29 fibo i like very much the ideas behind mojolicious and i don't wan't the complications of catalyst
14:30 fibo i had a lot of problems deploying
14:33 fibo with Mojolicious::Lite there is an other error
14:34 fibo Can't locate object method "run" via "Mojolicious::Lite"
14:34 fibo it seems to refer to the "run" method of CGI::App
14:36 fibo maybe i need to add another hook? or a more ignorant ... package Mojolicious::Lite; sub run { bla bla } ?
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14:51 fibo any hint? sorry , i'm a beginner with mojolicious, porting this cgi:app should be a chance to learn it at work instead of in my spare time
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15:15 yko fibo: before porting existing application it's better to play some with framework to unrestand it's architecture
15:16 yko maybe you better look through Mojolicious::Lite documentation and then read Growing Guide?
15:20 yko i have feeling that generators need more accent in pod. people are trying to create applications by hands, just pasting random snippets.
15:20 yko oh! i'm in pod now! <3
15:25 Christian i need an example how i can define a global config file with a hash which i can use in my controllers or helpers
15:26 * moritz uses vim to define files
15:28 Christian :)
15:28 Christian define = require
15:29 moritz in a lite app I just have a %conf hash in an outer scope which I read on startup
15:29 Akron Christian: http://search.cpan.org/~kraih/Mojolicious​-1.0/lib/Mojolicious/Plugin/JsonConfig.pm
15:30 Christian it is not a lite app
15:30 dotan Christian: There's also "defaults" in app where you set initial values for the stash that gets passed to each controller.
15:32 Akron It says "plugin 'json_config';" <- That's all you need for a Lite app. Well ... it's not a hash - but close to. However - you can use storable and defaults, if you want to ...
15:32 Christian ok i must register the config like a helper
15:33 Christian i thought there is another way to include a config file
15:33 Akron Christian: yepp (Sorry - I thought 'it is not a lite app' was addressed to me). Pretty easy.
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15:34 Akron Christian: What way would you prefer?
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15:36 sri yko: yes you are :)
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15:39 fibo @yko and sri: thnx, gonna read again and agin docs
15:39 Christian Akron, i think it is not a good way to load the config in a stash. ich would use the config like a helper
15:39 Christian ich = i
15:39 fibo i was impatient cause mojolicious is really interesting
15:40 yko fibo: other way is to use generators, like it's written in Growing Guide
15:40 yko jsut write "mojo generate lite_app test" ond youll get working skeleton. all you need then - follow ::Lite docs and Growing guide
15:41 yko *and
15:44 yko Cristian: you can use json_config which stash config, or you can write something like that: https://gist.github.com/766476 in your app class
15:45 fibo @yko: thnx for the hints, gonna try
15:46 yko or, if you don't like any existing way you may just write own helper, invent your own sqare wheel. But don't ask then why it shakes when you run.
15:46 * yko uses triangle one.
15:49 Akron Christian: You can create your own helper based on json_config, adding a helper 'config' and using a closure instead of the stash. Should be quite straight forward, you do not have to deal with file discovery and the config is save, i.e. can not be changed by evil templates.
15:51 * yko imagines very-very evil template which kidnap stash and demands cookies.
15:51 Christian thanks a lot for the informations
15:53 Christian i think the json_config is the right way for me
15:53 Christian but nice to know the other ways :)
15:59 Akron yko: Not all templates help old grannys across the street nowadays ...
16:00 Akron Damn - I never realised "use base ..." does not trigger import methods ...
16:02 yko Arkon: yes. that's sad. i faced with that about month ago
16:03 Christian thanks again and nice evening to you all
16:03 * yko waves
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16:06 Akron That's pretty unintuitive ...
16:07 yko Arkon: you should choose use decorators or inheritance :)
16:08 Akron I'll write my own "use base_and_do_it_like_use '...'" pragma!
16:09 yko in theory you can decorate, then somehow fake caller and call use base on inheritor. and shout in you leg, and... well, enough :)
16:09 moritz or just   use Parent; our @ISA = qw(Parent);
16:10 moritz really not so hard to write
16:10 Akron Hmmm ... sounds reasonable - especially the last part.
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16:10 yko each way quite dirty i think :(
16:12 yko mortiz: if do that way than it's better to tweak inheritor's @ISA in sub import {}: than only parent class looks dirty
16:12 Akron Yeah ... don't want to handle with @ISA directly. Well - I could add import to the parent pragma and bundle it ...
16:14 Akron yko: I think than you have to address the child's @ISA directly with @{"${$_[0]}::ISA"} or something ... not the way I want to do it in all child classes ...
16:14 moritz yko: why?
16:15 moritz yko: if you do that, you make policy modules (ie modules that import a bunch of other modules) quite impossible
16:15 moritz yko: and what's wrong with manipulating @ISA?
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16:17 yko Arkon: base.pm does exactly that: push @{"$inheritor\::ISA"}, @bases; # with many checks though
16:18 moritz yko: or maybe I misunderstood what you were saying
16:19 yko mortiz: not sure if i understand you right, not sure if you understand me right.
16:19 yko just don't want to go that way because finally it looks ugly and illogic
16:19 Akron yko: Yes - but you suggested to do it in parent class - so - all parent classes would be polluted with these strange things. "The kids are alright" ... Better using a pragma that works as expected. And base as well as parent don't do it, I think ...
16:19 yko just offering variants
16:19 moritz yko: which way looks illogic to you?
16:20 Akron moritz: Loading a module and then declaring it as being the parent afterwards. That's a way of self adoption ... not so stylish.
16:21 yko use something to obtain decorators and then inherit it - that's illogic for me
16:21 yko maybe it's because i'm thinking in context of decoration
16:21 moritz but if you don't want both decorators and inheritance, what's the problem with 'use base' not calling ->import?
16:21 * moritz thoroughly confused
16:23 Akron moritz: Dirty stuff ... in fact - misuse of "import". I have a use case ... but it's not a healthy one ... ;)
16:24 yko hmm. im confused also. maybe it's lack of ability to express my point of view
16:26 yko while you exactly konw what you are doing things going right way. but when project becames more complicated, many bad things may happen
16:26 Akron "import" is a good method for initiating global things in a child class, for example global variables. That's the way I used it.
16:27 yko from one hand child can't know how parent should be imported. it's prent's mission.
16:28 yko from other hand write use base and then $class->import each time sounds illogical to me.
16:28 Akron I thought, when I "use base '...'" something, I really "use" it ... but I only use "base" and require "...". That confuses me.
16:28 Akron yko: Yepp - for me too.
16:28 yko Akron : thame thing
16:30 Akron Mabe "init" would be a better name than "import" ...
16:30 yko that is why i'd rather put some hackish stuff like "require base; *fake caller*; base->import($caller, __PACKAGE__)" than write every time use Package; push @ISA....
16:30 yko Akron: obtain :)
16:31 yko but i feel english words very bad
16:31 Akron yko: :)
16:32 Akron yko: Maybe "do_it_right_at_the_start_dammit!!_z567u_UG7u7", to prevent old packages from being broken.
16:45 perlrocks Twitter: "after that with nothing back inconsistent pile of shit which is released under the guise of rails3, # mojolicious doubly pleasing" (ru) --averyanov http://twitter.com/averyano​v/status/22695309180149762
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17:08 yko O yeah! we'v got new Romantically Apocalyptic episode
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18:17 Akron cu.
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21:43 MojoGuest622 From: http://www.google.pl/url?sa=t&amp;source=web​&amp;cd=3&amp;ved=0CCwQFjAC&amp;url=http%3A%​2F%2Fdev.xantus.org%2F&amp;rct=j&amp;q=webso​cket%20demo&amp;ei=3-UkTc_iAtDJswaT8oHfAg&am​p;usg=AFQjCNGw6nZv0wO42uzUnHhWcD0vcKNULg (1 hits)
21:43 MojoGuest622 hello
21:44 MojoGuest161 joined #mojo
21:44 MojoGuest161 From: http://www.google.pl/search?q=websocket+demo&amp;​ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;hl=en&amp;client=safari (1 hits)
21:44 MojoGuest622 hola
21:44 MojoGuest622 works ;)
21:44 MojoGuest622 c00l
21:45 yko ye
21:45 yko Poland?
21:45 MojoGuest622 :)
21:45 MojoGuest622 Warsaw/Poland
21:45 * yko waves
21:45 yko hi neighbor!
21:45 MojoGuest622 testing WebKit (Safari on Mac)
21:46 MojoGuest622 I'm trying send test from iphone... but not work..
21:46 MojoGuest622 receving works..
21:47 yko websocket protocol is not established yet
21:47 MojoGuest622 testing on iphone 3gs IOS 4.2.1 jailbroken
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21:49 MojoGuest965 From: http://www.google.pl/search?q=websocket+demo&amp;​ie=UTF-8&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;hl=en&amp;client=safari (2 hits)
21:51 MojoGuest622 so... on iphone I have "not connected, use the command /connect"..
21:51 MojoGuest622 but still is connected... receving data..
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23:47 perlrocks Twitter: "#mojolicious && ( #iwebkit || #jqtouch ) => lots of fun!" --esskar http://twitter.com/esskar/status/22801416284274688
23:52 s0va sri: here?
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